Liqui Moly Comparison

[Talontd]

Hi guys,

I've done some research on here, but have yet to find a definitive answer. Some similar questions have been asked here:
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2845029
and here:
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2909600

Hopefully, the specificity of my question allows for a new thread...

I've recently purchased a 2008 VW GTI with a 2.0 FSI Turbo motor @62k miles. I have decided to use Liqui Moly exclusively after doing a lot of research, and my previous experience with my Audi. Unfortunately, I have been unable to determine the optimal oil to use.

I will be using the "Liqui Moly 2037 Pro-Line Engine Flush" before my 1st oil change, and the "Liqui Moly (20002) Cera Tec Friction Modifier" in my 1st oil change, then as needed. I drive approximately 75miles a day and will be upgrading the car to approx 350hp from the 200hp stock motor. I have narrowed it down to 3 types of oil, but am stuck on the decision. Choices are:

Liqui Moly (2332) Leichtlauf High Tech 5W-40
Liqui Moly (3701) Top Tec 4100 5W-40
Liqui Moly (2041) Synthoil Premium 5W-40

I know they are all "good oils" and meet my VW 502.00 spec. I probably couldn't go wrong using any of them, but which one is best for a modified car, driven roughly, daily?

 

[Audios]

Honestly, whichever one is the cheapest of the 3 will do fine, especially for 5-7k intervals.

 

[Talontd]

Originally Posted By: Audios
Honestly, whichever one is the cheapest of the 3 will do fine, especially for 5-7k intervals.


@Audios
Hey, thanks for responding. I understand they will all do, however one must be best for my application as they are all....significantly? different. That's why i'm here....because the people here can expound on those differences and point me in the right direction.


In an effort to be a bit more clear:

Leichtlauf High Tech - Is a synthetic blend with a BMW L1 & VW 50500 rating

Using the above as a baseline

Top Tec 4100 - Is a synthetic blend with with a BMW L4 & VW 50500, 50501 rating. Does the additional 50501 rating provide any advantage? I've also seen posted that the L1 rating is better than the L4? Also advertised as low ash/sulfur, does this provide an advantage in an engine known for carbon fouling?

Synthoil Premium - The only PURE synthetic i've listed with a BMW L98 & VW 50500. Does the fact this is pure syn trump all? Difference between the L98, L1, L4?


Hope that illustrates the knowledge i'm lacking. I know i'm splitting hairs, but one has to be BEST for my application right?
That's the reason for all these choices

 

[edyvw]

Get Castrol 0W40 and do not flush engine or use other additives.
Liqui Moly is average HC oil, nothing else. You pay though those huge letters on the jug that says: Made in Germany.
Compare to Castrol 0W30/40 it is step below. Same compare to M1 0W40 FS or Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40.

 

[edyvw]

As for Synthoil Premium SAE 5W-40, it is outdated, and does not meet MB 229.5, which means NOACK is higher then 10%, which what you DO NOT want in DI engine.

 

[1JZ_E46]

I was not happy with the Liqui-Moly I used (Leichtlauf High Tech) in my X5. It valvetrain noise was louder than normal and it thickened up considerably based on the consistency of it when I poured it out of the drain pan (it did that drizzle-like thing like honey does when it hits a surface if you know what I mean). I switched to Castrol 0W-40 (a true Group 4 synthetic) and much prefer it. Liqui-Moly in Europe is good, as it is a true Group 4 synthetic, but not so much here (except for Synthoil Energy, which is PAO). Unfortunately they don't offer Synthoil High Tech in the states, as that (and Synthoil Energy) are their true synthetic oils.

Long story short, if you want to stick with Liqui-Moly, I would look at Synthoil Energy (since High Tech isn't available here). It meets VW 505 00. It's a PAO based synthetic.

If I were driving a modified car like yours, I would be looking at Motul Xmax 0W-40; Castrol 0W-40, 0W-30, or 5W-30 A3/B4; or Mobil 1 0W-40. Proven oils from big companies with deep R&D pockets.

 

[Olas]

I'd use Leichtlauf, Toptec is low saps and although Synthoil meets the same 502/505/A40 it doesn't have as cool of a name.

 

[Talontd]

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
I switched to Castrol 0W-40 (a true Group 4 synthetic) and much prefer it. Liqui-Moly in Europe is good, as it is a true Group 4 synthetic, but not so much here (except for Synthoil Energy, which is PAO). Unfortunately they don't offer Synthoil High Tech in the states, as that (and Synthoil Energy) are their true synthetic oils.

Long story short, if you want to stick with Liqui-Moly, I would look at Synthoil Energy (since High Tech isn't available here). It meets VW 505 00. It's a PAO based synthetic.

Thanks so much for this, however I thought there were VERY few PURE PAO synthetics?.....AMSoil & Royal Purple are the only two I can think of off the top of my head. On this very forum Castrol 0W-40 was called out for being a blend...
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1137824

And I remember an AMSoil article trashing Mobil 1 & Castrol, but can only find this:
"Not All Synthetics Are Created Equal:

Please be aware that not all synthetics are created equal. There is wide differences in quality and protection provided by the various synthetics. Additionally, not all synthetics are 100% synthetic. Many are partial synthetics marketed under the perception of full synthetics to the unsuspecting consumer or even Group III hydrocracked oils such as Castrol Syntec, for example, which is a hydroisomerized petroleum oil and not a Group 4 PAO synthetic oil (there is a full article on this in our Informative Articles section detailing the battle between Castrol and Mobil). There are no PAO (polyalphaolefin) synthetic molecules in Castrol Syntec, yet because of legal finagling with the definition of synthesized motor oils they can legally be called synthetic. Basically, they changed the definition of a synthetic to fit the process of highly refining a petroleum base oil, called hydrocracking and fought with Mobil and the National Advertising Council to loosen the definition of a synthetic."

That was from AMSoil's website...

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
If I were driving a modified car like yours, I would be looking at Motul Xmax 0W-40; Castrol 0W-40, 0W-30, or 5W-30 A3/B4; or Mobil 1 0W-40. Proven oils from big companies with deep R&D pockets.


Thanks for the suggestions. I was looking into Motul, but it appears hard to source...

 

[Talontd]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Get Castrol 0W40 and do not flush engine or use other additives.
Liqui Moly is average HC oil, nothing else. You pay though those huge letters on the jug that says: Made in Germany.
Compare to Castrol 0W30/40 it is step below. Same compare to M1 0W40 FS or Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40.


If the engine was at a higher mileage I would agree with you. However, I feel safe flushing with only 62k. Will be walnut blasting the valves, and doing a full tune. It will give me peace of mind, i am however fully aware of the potential dangers of flushing.

Originally Posted By: edyvw
As for Synthoil Premium SAE 5W-40, it is outdated, and does not meet MB 229.5, which means NOACK is higher then 10%, which what you DO NOT want in DI engine.


EXACTLY the kind of info I was looking for, thank you so much!

 

[Talontd]

Originally Posted By: Olas
I'd use Leichtlauf, Toptec is low saps and although Synthoil meets the same 502/505/A40 it doesn't have as cool of a name.


Thank you. I have actually started a dialog with Liqui Moly CS regarding this inquiry, and they have recommended Leichtlauf for my application as well. Can't really say I care about the name tho.

 

[1JZ_E46]

Originally Posted By: Talontd
Thanks so much for this, however I thought there were VERY few PURE PAO synthetics?.....AMSoil & Royal Purple are the only two I can think of off the top of my head. On this very forum Castrol 0W-40 was called out for being a blend...


Maybe in a pure race oil you will find an oil that is only Group 4/5, however, usually there is some Group 3 in any "Fully Synthetic" (per Euro standards) oil. I can't remember what the ratio is, but essentially, they are all blends of Group 3/4/5, with "fully synthetic" oils containing (I'm guessing) over 50% Group 4/5. For daily driving, I would stay away from a pure race oil... Use it at the track if you must and then dump it.

I reached out to Liqui-Moly a few months ago and they confirmed Synthoil Energy is a PAO based oil, and just like any other PAO based oil (Motul, Castrol, etc.), it contains Group 3 in it. All other U.S. available Liqui-Moly oils (except for their Race Tech 10W-60) are Group 3 basestocks.

Also, be wary of the relevance of oil threads over 1-2 years old. Formulations change all the time.

 

[Saxon78]

LM Leichtlauf HT is the only one (of those 3) having the latest MB229.5 specification.

 

[1JZ_E46]

Originally Posted By: zveroboy
LM Leichtlauf HT is the only one (of those 3) having the latest MB229.5 specification.


I was not impressed by Leichtlauf. Castrol 0W-40 is night and day better... Probably has a lot to do with it being a PAO based oil instead of HC.

 

[Talontd]

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Maybe in a pure race oil you will find an oil that is only Group 4/5, however, usually there is some Group 3 in any "Fully Synthetic" (per Euro standards) oil. I can't remember what the ratio is, but essentially, they are all blends of Group 3/4/5, with "fully synthetic" oils containing (I'm guessing) over 50% Group 4/5. For daily driving, I would stay away from a pure race oil... Use it at the track if you must and then dump it.

I reached out to Liqui-Moly a few months ago and they confirmed Synthoil Energy is a PAO based oil, and just like any other PAO based oil (Motul, Castrol, etc.), it contains Group 3 in it. All other U.S. available Liqui-Moly oils (except for their Race Tech 10W-60) are Group 3 basestocks.


I agree that a race oil is not suitable for DD conditions. After looking deeper into Royal Purple, I believe that is not "fully synthetic" as well. That leaves AMSoil as the only applicable "Fully Synthetic" oil suitable for DD conditions. The price point is a bit too high for me as well as the availability issues, which leave me back where I started.

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Also, be wary of the relevance of oil threads over 1-2 years old. Formulations change all the time.


This is excellent advice, thank you.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted By: zveroboy
LM Leichtlauf HT is the only one (of those 3) having the latest MB229.5 specification.


I was not impressed by Leichtlauf. Castrol 0W-40 is night and day better... Probably has a lot to do with it being a PAO based oil instead of HC.

LM oils are generally average at best. What they do is put huge Made in Germany letters, and people get all worked up over that.

 

[1JZ_E46]

Originally Posted By: Talontd
I agree that a race oil is not suitable for DD conditions. After looking deeper into Royal Purple, I believe that is not "fully synthetic" as well. That leaves AMSoil as the only applicable "Fully Synthetic" oil suitable for DD conditions. The price point is a bit too high for me as well as the availability issues, which leave me back where I started.


Try not to overthink it. I have certainly done that many times. Stick with a quality ACEA A3/B4 oil with the main Euro approvals (LL-01, 229.5, A40) and try not to break the bank. Also, most 0W-40 oils are Group 4 (PAO) or GTL based because of the viscosity spread, so you're going to get a quality base stock in that SAE grade. Remember, lots of race teams with engines 2 times the power of your car use off the shelf ACEA A3/B4 "euro" oils with great success.

 

[Talontd]

Originally Posted By: zveroboy
LM Leichtlauf HT is the only one (of those 3) having the latest MB229.5 specification.


Good catch, ty.

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
I was not impressed by Leichtlauf. Castrol 0W-40 is night and day better... Probably has a lot to do with it being a PAO based oil instead of HC.


You know, i read up a bit before posting, however now after obsessing over oil for the last 3 days i'm moving away from that stance. It honestly seems like it almost doesn't matter as long as certain specs are hit and you are going with a big name. Castrol 0W-40 has been recommended several times along with Pennzoil. The more I learn about Pennzoil tho, the more i'm being sold.

I will still flush and use Cera-Tec, i've seen the results of that product first-hand....but I am moving away from the stance that I'm best off with a German oil.

 

[Talontd]

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Try not to overthink it. I have certainly done that many times. Stick with a quality ACEA A3/B4 oil with the main Euro approvals (LL-01, 229.5, A40) and try not to break the bank. Also, most 0W-40 oils are Group 4 (PAO) or GTL based because of the viscosity spread, so you're going to get a quality base stock in that SAE grade. Remember, lots of race teams with engines 2 times the power of your car use off the shelf ACEA A3/B4 "euro" oils with great success.


Haha, noticed i tend to do that did ya?! I've actually always really liked this car (so i'm worse than normal), so when I saw one with low miles and a carfax showing all servies, for a good price, i jumped on it! I'm nearing the 30d dealer warranty and they've actually got it now to smoke test for a vacuum leak (I've been driving them nuts with every little niggle i could

. I get it back this wknd and will do my first tune-up.

I guess I just want to get it right from the beginning, ya know?

 

[1JZ_E46]

Originally Posted By: Talontd
Haha, noticed i tend to do that did ya?! I've actually always really liked this car (so i'm worse than normal), so when I saw one with low miles and a carfax showing all servies, for a good price, i jumped on it! I'm nearing the 30d dealer warranty and they've actually got it now to smoke test for a vacuum leak (I've been driving them nuts with every little niggle i could

. I get it back this wknd and will do my first tune-up.

I guess I just want to get it right from the beginning, ya know?


I've been in your shows a few times with prior cars. Folks like us have to go through the motions of fantasizing about something and then we can back off into normal territory. At least that's the way I am wired. While I don't think the flush will hurt anything, I would hesitate to use the Cera-Tec. It really isn't necessary, as A3/B4 oils have healthy amounts of additives compared to other oil types (again, I don't see race teams seeing it as necessary in their off-the-shelf oils). Enjoy your car and don't forget about all of the other fluids that need attention!

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: Talontd
Originally Posted By: zveroboy
LM Leichtlauf HT is the only one (of those 3) having the latest MB229.5 specification.


Good catch, ty.

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
I was not impressed by Leichtlauf. Castrol 0W-40 is night and day better... Probably has a lot to do with it being a PAO based oil instead of HC.


You know, i read up a bit before posting, however now after obsessing over oil for the last 3 days i'm moving away from that stance. It honestly seems like it almost doesn't matter as long as certain specs are hit and you are going with a big name. Castrol 0W-40 has been recommended several times along with Pennzoil. The more I learn about Pennzoil tho, the more i'm being sold.

I will still flush and use Cera-Tec, i've seen the results of that product first-hand....but I am moving away from the stance that I'm best off with a German oil.

Why using Cera-Tec? Do you have ANY issues with that engine?
All ACEA A3/B3 B4 oils have high quality additives in the oil. Manufacturers do not recommend flush or additives for a reason. Using Castrol 0W30/40, M1 0W40 FS, Pennzoil 5W40, Pentosin, LM, Total, Motul etc. will provide more then enough of additives to clean your engine properly.
What you should watch is NOACK numbers (get oil that meets MB 229.5 together with VW 502.00) considering you are running DI engine. Forget PAO etc. discussion. It is final product that matters.I use M1 5W30 ESP in BMW. It is HC oil, VISOM based. There are very few oils in that category with such performance numbers, PAO, Ester or Gr III based, it does not matter. It has NOACK of 5.6%, which is lower then Redline Euro that has 6% and it is GrV based. So final product is what really matters.