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#4297569 - 01/09/17 10:33 AM Questions about Kelly Blue Book
7055 Offline


Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 349
Loc: KS
I found an '05 Five Hundred AWD SEL for sale from a reputable dealer with only 46k on the odo for 5,995. I thought to myself, that seems like a good deal. I look at KBB.com and the value of said car in good condition is only $3,220 private party and 5,332 from a dealer! Why does it seem like the KBB value on these cars is so low?

Also, Can anyone explain why there is such a large difference in value between buying from a private party and buying from a dealer on KBB values? Should you really expect to pay so much more money when you go to negotiate the price of a used car at the dealer vs. a private party?

Is there anything I have too worry about with this car being 12 years old but super low mileage? Other than of course, I am going to thoroughly inspect it myself.


Edited by 7055 (01/09/17 10:36 AM)
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#4297572 - 01/09/17 10:38 AM Re: Questions about Kelly Blue Book [Re: 7055]
rooflessVW Offline


Registered: 12/24/11
Posts: 2294
Loc: North Carolina
Dealers have overhead, and generally provide more "insurance" when you buy a vehicle from them.

KBB pricing varies wildly from extremely optimistic to flat-out incorrect. Black Book is a more realistic guide, and looking at recent auction transactions is most accurate.

Ultimately, any commodity is worth what someone is willing to pay, and the easiest way to know you got a fair price is if you feel like you did.
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#4297574 - 01/09/17 10:40 AM Re: Questions about Kelly Blue Book [Re: 7055]
7055 Offline


Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 349
Loc: KS
I wonder if maybe the Five Hundred didn't have a good reputation and thus had relatively low resale values.
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#4297581 - 01/09/17 10:45 AM Re: Questions about Kelly Blue Book [Re: 7055]
Miller88 Offline


Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 11979
Loc: Onondaga County
Originally Posted By: 7055
I wonder if maybe the Five Hundred didn't have a good reputation and thus had relatively low resale values.


Apart from the CVT issues on some of them, Five Hundreds had a great reputation. That was one of the first cars that Ford got "right". Helps that it is a Volvo, of course.
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#4297583 - 01/09/17 10:47 AM Re: Questions about Kelly Blue Book [Re: 7055]
JayhawkRoy Offline


Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 953
Loc: Basehor, KS
A couple of observations.
1. Some dealers price their cars higher than book value so that they can go down, and every one "feels good" about the deal. I see this a lot in the Kansas City area.
2. I don't have access to the Black Book, so I look at nadaguides.com, KBB and Edmunds, to see how closely they compare on a single vehicle. I then decide which value I may choose to use as leverage with the dealer.
3. Keep in mind older vehicles may require some work to get ready for the lot, so the dealer retail values reflect a level of work that private party values do not. Overhead, etc also play a part in the higher dealer pricing.
4. In general I try to hit a midpoint (or lower) between private party and dealer retail as I negotiate a used car price. Patience can pay off.

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#4297584 - 01/09/17 10:47 AM Re: Questions about Kelly Blue Book [Re: Miller88]
7055 Offline


Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 349
Loc: KS
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Originally Posted By: 7055
I wonder if maybe the Five Hundred didn't have a good reputation and thus had relatively low resale values.


Apart from the CVT issues on some of them, Five Hundreds had a great reputation. That was one of the first cars that Ford got "right". Helps that it is a Volvo, of course.


Yea the suspension feels great on them, I drive one right now with 275k on it and the 6 speed auto has been really bad for the past 70k, banging and slamming. Had some electrical issues too, but at this mileage you kind of expect it.

This one I'm looking at buying is a CVT so hopefully it won't have any of those CVT issues but with 46k on it, seems unlikely.


Edited by 7055 (01/09/17 10:48 AM)
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#4297586 - 01/09/17 10:47 AM Re: Questions about Kelly Blue Book [Re: 7055]
Gasbuggy Offline


Registered: 08/26/09
Posts: 1847
Loc: PA
Values are low because no one wants them. Check out what a Taurus would be worth from the same year.
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#4297591 - 01/09/17 10:57 AM Re: Questions about Kelly Blue Book [Re: Gasbuggy]
7055 Offline


Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 349
Loc: KS
Originally Posted By: Gasbuggy
Values are low because no one wants them. Check out what a Taurus would be worth from the same year.


Okay, I must have had a brain [censored] and entered the wrong mileage, actual KBB values are:

05 Five Hundred SEL Private Party at 46k: $4,492
05 Five Hundred SEL Dealer at 46k: $6,604

05 Taurus Private Party at 46k: $3,387
05 Taurus Dealer at 46k: $5,406


And why does nobody want a Five Hundred?


Edited by 7055 (01/09/17 10:59 AM)
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#4297595 - 01/09/17 11:02 AM Re: Questions about Kelly Blue Book [Re: Miller88]
7055 Offline


Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 349
Loc: KS
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Originally Posted By: 7055
I wonder if maybe the Five Hundred didn't have a good reputation and thus had relatively low resale values.


Apart from the CVT issues on some of them, Five Hundreds had a great reputation. That was one of the first cars that Ford got "right". Helps that it is a Volvo, of course.


Ford engine Volvo suspension?
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#4297605 - 01/09/17 11:15 AM Re: Questions about Kelly Blue Book [Re: 7055]
javacontour Offline


Registered: 06/26/03
Posts: 9627
Loc: Illinois
Originally Posted By: 7055



And why does nobody want a Five Hundred?


Because everyone thinks they need an SUV...
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#4297619 - 01/09/17 11:30 AM Re: Questions about Kelly Blue Book [Re: javacontour]
7055 Offline


Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 349
Loc: KS
Originally Posted By: javacontour
Originally Posted By: 7055



And why does nobody want a Five Hundred?


Because everyone thinks they need an SUV...


You're saying full-size sedans in general are dying?
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#4297622 - 01/09/17 11:36 AM Re: Questions about Kelly Blue Book [Re: 7055]
SirTanon Offline


Registered: 06/23/14
Posts: 1400
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona - USA
Originally Posted By: 7055
And why does nobody want a Five Hundred?


The Five Hundred was just a renamed Taurus for about 4 years or so, because the new Ford CEO at the time wanted to revamp the entire naming convention.

People know what a Taurus is, because it's been around for decades. Nobody knows what the heck a Five Hundred is, even though it's essentially the same car. Consequently, it's not as popular.

Personally, I find the Five Hundred to be a very nice car. If you're interested, and they're asking $5,995 for it, then offer $4,800 and make them negotiate back up. I bet you can get into it for around $5,200.
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#4297635 - 01/09/17 11:53 AM Re: Questions about Kelly Blue Book [Re: SirTanon]
7055 Offline


Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 349
Loc: KS
Originally Posted By: SirTanon
Originally Posted By: 7055
And why does nobody want a Five Hundred?


The Five Hundred was just a renamed Taurus for about 4 years or so, because the new Ford CEO at the time wanted to revamp the entire naming convention.

People know what a Taurus is, because it's been around for decades. Nobody knows what the heck a Five Hundred is, even though it's essentially the same car. Consequently, it's not as popular.

Personally, I find the Five Hundred to be a very nice car. If you're interested, and they're asking $5,995 for it, then offer $4,800 and make them negotiate back up. I bet you can get into it for around $5,200.


Do you recommend getting it pre-inspected by a mechanic first and does the customer typically pay for that?
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2004 Neon SRT 376whp 437wtq - stage3, exhaust port, 6 puck, water injection...
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#4297651 - 01/09/17 12:05 PM Re: Questions about Kelly Blue Book [Re: 7055]
Kira Offline


Registered: 08/19/10
Posts: 3488
Loc: Champlain/Hudson Valley
Pay an indie to work for you, yes.

Also, from my perspective, the nix on the Five Hundred was the CVT. I was told by a Ford service writer that they couldn't keep up with the warranty claims for rebuilt CVTs let alone have one on the shelf.

I have a coworker who's aunt had one and loved it.

CVTs spook me. Kira

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#4297665 - 01/09/17 12:16 PM Re: Questions about Kelly Blue Book [Re: Kira]
7055 Offline


Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 349
Loc: KS
Originally Posted By: Kira
Pay an indie to work for you, yes.

Also, from my perspective, the nix on the Five Hundred was the CVT. I was told by a Ford service writer that they couldn't keep up with the warranty claims for rebuilt CVTs let alone have one on the shelf.

I have a coworker who's aunt had one and loved it.

CVTs spook me. Kira


Anything I can look for to see if the CVTs going out?
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