Thought on buying rebuilt title with documentation
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Originally Posted By: Wolf359
Well if there's ever a recall for an airbag which seems pretty popular these days, then a rebuilt car wouldn't be covered. Also if the car is a Pzev, that has a 15 year/150k warranty on various emissions parts which may cover things like gas tanks and fuel pumps. Same for factory extended warranties. But I guess if the price is low enough, it might be worth a small gamble. Pretty sure it has nothing to do with what the dealer says is covered or not, typically the dealers punch in the VIN into a database and it will know that it's a rebuilt title and reject any warranty claim.
This is false. Recalls by law have to honored if the vehicle is drivable no matter the title. Warranties are a different story
See this news story http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Salvage-Recall-Randy-Mac-377870211.html
Well if there's ever a recall for an airbag which seems pretty popular these days, then a rebuilt car wouldn't be covered. Also if the car is a Pzev, that has a 15 year/150k warranty on various emissions parts which may cover things like gas tanks and fuel pumps. Same for factory extended warranties. But I guess if the price is low enough, it might be worth a small gamble. Pretty sure it has nothing to do with what the dealer says is covered or not, typically the dealers punch in the VIN into a database and it will know that it's a rebuilt title and reject any warranty claim.
This is false. Recalls by law have to honored if the vehicle is drivable no matter the title. Warranties are a different story
See this news story http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Salvage-Recall-Randy-Mac-377870211.html
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Highway drive ensures that the alignment, suspension, transmission, engine, brakes and steering are all working properly as they should from a good mechanics butt dyno. If no visible problems are apparent, have them check under the oil cap and radiator as well as any other checks such as rust, tire wear/rot and leaking suspension components. If you don't have a good mechanic to check, it would make sense to get a pre-purchase inspection done by a reputable source. If that's not possible, Chrisfix has posted a checklist and video on what to check when buying a used car. It's a good series to watch for anyone that's new to buying a used car. If I was looking at salvage/rebuilts or a regular used car I'd definitely watch it over again.
Here's the link to the checklist you can download and print out.
http://chrisfixed.com/downloads.php
Video series:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vC8LbvYk6es&index=1&list=PLvKbarVtwhUv6bjLhJSyaEOxaYy03j7QS
Here's the link to the checklist you can download and print out.
http://chrisfixed.com/downloads.php
Video series:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vC8LbvYk6es&index=1&list=PLvKbarVtwhUv6bjLhJSyaEOxaYy03j7QS
I'd get this car on the hoist and thoroughly inspect the underside for bent metal, dings in subframes, lose mount bolts, missing frame bushings, signs of hammering, repair welds, etc.
That'll tell ya if there was only a 'replaced bumper'.
Then road test on the hiway, take your hands off the wheel and see if it drifts sharply, step on the brakes and see if the wheel pulls suddenly!
Then bargain the car down some more!
GM dealer tried to sell me a car with a tranny problem:
I OBDII scanned a GM car and got a P1811 code, so I took down the serial number,
I offered the dealer $1,500 less, he refused, so I said I got the serial number and
I'll find the new owner and see if you disclosed the problem or not, they got mad
but sold me the car for $1,300 less! Then I fixed it for $250!
That'll tell ya if there was only a 'replaced bumper'.
Then road test on the hiway, take your hands off the wheel and see if it drifts sharply, step on the brakes and see if the wheel pulls suddenly!
Then bargain the car down some more!
GM dealer tried to sell me a car with a tranny problem:
I OBDII scanned a GM car and got a P1811 code, so I took down the serial number,
I offered the dealer $1,500 less, he refused, so I said I got the serial number and
I'll find the new owner and see if you disclosed the problem or not, they got mad
but sold me the car for $1,300 less! Then I fixed it for $250!
See if they will budge on the $3900 price. While not too bad of a deal, definitely examine it thoroughly and be cautious. I remember some cars getting rear-ended and repaired at the insurance company only to have them come back with complaints that the thing ate tires like mad and never drove quite the same. Being that it was hit in the front definitely test EVERY electronic function of the vehicle. It only takes one damaged wire to cause a lot of problems.
Also, was the car damaged, then sold and fixed by shop to be resold? Or was it damaged, fixed, then continued to be owned by the customer for a bit until they sold it?
Normally if there is just front bumper damage, the insured would have the vehicle fixed and returned to them.
Also, was the car damaged, then sold and fixed by shop to be resold? Or was it damaged, fixed, then continued to be owned by the customer for a bit until they sold it?
Normally if there is just front bumper damage, the insured would have the vehicle fixed and returned to them.
Originally Posted By: bioburner
Enterprise rental self insures and they write off vehicles way to soon IMO. Have seen several of their vehicles on auction, salvage yards and were IMO easily repaired with a few prepainted parts.
Rental car companies have a motivation to write off vehicles -- the customer that damaged them is paying for the loss. The insurance payoff is higher than their discounted present value.
It could be a bargain, but the car also has both the accident damage and rental car wear. When I go on business trips, a rental car often sees only gentle highway miles and indoor parking garages. When I rent one for personal use, it's sometimes because I don't want hard use (e.g. camping) on my own car.
Enterprise rental self insures and they write off vehicles way to soon IMO. Have seen several of their vehicles on auction, salvage yards and were IMO easily repaired with a few prepainted parts.
Rental car companies have a motivation to write off vehicles -- the customer that damaged them is paying for the loss. The insurance payoff is higher than their discounted present value.
It could be a bargain, but the car also has both the accident damage and rental car wear. When I go on business trips, a rental car often sees only gentle highway miles and indoor parking garages. When I rent one for personal use, it's sometimes because I don't want hard use (e.g. camping) on my own car.
Originally Posted By: 7055
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
I would definitely recommend taking it for a reasonably lengthy highway drive at speed before buying, though.
Why a highway drive specifically if I may ask? What did you have in mind that I'm looking out for?
A vehicle that has been knocked out of true somehow by a collision might seem fine in city/surface street driving, but will probably show her true colors at speed on the highway.
My wife was planning to trade in her Olds on a Bonneville (loved that Pontiac!) and had a slow leak in one tire...against my advice, she bought some fix-a-flat in a can. It felt fine when she drove it to and from work on local roads, but then we took it on the highway to get to the rather distant Pontiac dealer and it was wobbling like crazy. The dealer knocked a good chunk off the trade value for that...
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
I would definitely recommend taking it for a reasonably lengthy highway drive at speed before buying, though.
Why a highway drive specifically if I may ask? What did you have in mind that I'm looking out for?
A vehicle that has been knocked out of true somehow by a collision might seem fine in city/surface street driving, but will probably show her true colors at speed on the highway.
My wife was planning to trade in her Olds on a Bonneville (loved that Pontiac!) and had a slow leak in one tire...against my advice, she bought some fix-a-flat in a can. It felt fine when she drove it to and from work on local roads, but then we took it on the highway to get to the rather distant Pontiac dealer and it was wobbling like crazy. The dealer knocked a good chunk off the trade value for that...
Didn't Ford just issue a recall for a brake problem on older Fusions/Milans?
Another thing to consider is when the damage took place. If it was crashed a few months prior it is likely that all of the bugs haven't been worked out since fixing it. If a car was in an accident 5 years and 60,000 miles ago there is a good chance that car is just fine.
Originally Posted By: 2010Civic
Another thing to consider is when the damage took place. If it was crashed a few months prior it is likely that all of the bugs haven't been worked out since fixing it. If a car was in an accident 5 years and 60,000 miles ago there is a good chance that car is just fine.
Just to add to this because it may not be obvious even though it has been sprinkled in here a couple times.
An insurance company would not declare a vehicle a total loss unless it was not worth fixing it. How much that is depends on the company and other factors, but let's play with some numbers - also taking time into account as mentioned above.
If this happened when it was new, say to a $25,000 valued car, an insurance company may consider it willing to fix up to 80% of the value (just throwing that out there, could be more or less). That would mean the damage exceeded $20,000.
Now if it happened a few months ago when the value is $8,000 and the insurance company is only willing to pay up to 50% of the value, well that is still $4,000 worth of damage.
I cannot see a scenario in here where a bumper cover results in the car being declared a total loss. I think you are dealing with a stereotypical shady used-car dealer who is telling you stories. I'd bet if you inquired more you would find it was a little old lady who only drove it to church who owned it prior. Or perhaps they would feed you another story about how it was some extenuating circumstances that the owner had that resulted in this perfect car with such minor damage being declared a total loss.
Personally, especially if they have pictures, I would be suspicious of it having rear-end damage not shown in the pictures, or being a flood vehicle that also had body damage, or something else hidden that you cannot see in the documentation.
I would steer clear.
Another thing to consider is when the damage took place. If it was crashed a few months prior it is likely that all of the bugs haven't been worked out since fixing it. If a car was in an accident 5 years and 60,000 miles ago there is a good chance that car is just fine.
Just to add to this because it may not be obvious even though it has been sprinkled in here a couple times.
An insurance company would not declare a vehicle a total loss unless it was not worth fixing it. How much that is depends on the company and other factors, but let's play with some numbers - also taking time into account as mentioned above.
If this happened when it was new, say to a $25,000 valued car, an insurance company may consider it willing to fix up to 80% of the value (just throwing that out there, could be more or less). That would mean the damage exceeded $20,000.
Now if it happened a few months ago when the value is $8,000 and the insurance company is only willing to pay up to 50% of the value, well that is still $4,000 worth of damage.
I cannot see a scenario in here where a bumper cover results in the car being declared a total loss. I think you are dealing with a stereotypical shady used-car dealer who is telling you stories. I'd bet if you inquired more you would find it was a little old lady who only drove it to church who owned it prior. Or perhaps they would feed you another story about how it was some extenuating circumstances that the owner had that resulted in this perfect car with such minor damage being declared a total loss.
Personally, especially if they have pictures, I would be suspicious of it having rear-end damage not shown in the pictures, or being a flood vehicle that also had body damage, or something else hidden that you cannot see in the documentation.
I would steer clear.
Just asking, so don't assume that I am stuck on buying this car, but when factoring the monetary extent of the damage that the insurance company must do to declare it totaled, wouldn't they also have to take into account factors such as the cost of the rental car that they would have to give the person while they find a new car or whatever?
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Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
In many areas, the term "salvage" and "rebuilt" are interchangeable and fairly ambiguous. Do yourself a favor and leave it to someone else to buy a 6 year old car with 90,000 miles and a scarlet letter title.
In my state it's crystal clear-- salvage can't be registered on the road and one has to start amassing paperwork with the parts needed to rebuild a vehicle. The state police inspect the work at certain choke points.
Once they're satisfied, they issue a rebuilt title, which can then allow registration.
A few years ago, the feds got involved and straightened out the definitions. Most states are on board.
In many areas, the term "salvage" and "rebuilt" are interchangeable and fairly ambiguous. Do yourself a favor and leave it to someone else to buy a 6 year old car with 90,000 miles and a scarlet letter title.
In my state it's crystal clear-- salvage can't be registered on the road and one has to start amassing paperwork with the parts needed to rebuild a vehicle. The state police inspect the work at certain choke points.
Once they're satisfied, they issue a rebuilt title, which can then allow registration.
A few years ago, the feds got involved and straightened out the definitions. Most states are on board.
My daily driver 92 Cavalier has a prior salvage title and I've been driving it for over 10 years and have put 142,000 miles on it. Car now has 218,000 miles on it and still runs great and drives straight down the road.
This car had been hit in the front from the side which sheared off the bumper, grill, headlights, and bent the core support and uni-body. It also bent up the hood and both fenders. Car had 76,000 original miles on it and looked like new except for the damage. I bought it for $500, spent $225 to get the uni-body and core support straightened out, bought a front clip from the JY for $250 and had a cheap commuter car. The car has had no problems other than routine maintenance stuff.
Not all prior salvage or rebuilt cars are bad you just have to check them out really well.
Wayne
This car had been hit in the front from the side which sheared off the bumper, grill, headlights, and bent the core support and uni-body. It also bent up the hood and both fenders. Car had 76,000 original miles on it and looked like new except for the damage. I bought it for $500, spent $225 to get the uni-body and core support straightened out, bought a front clip from the JY for $250 and had a cheap commuter car. The car has had no problems other than routine maintenance stuff.
Not all prior salvage or rebuilt cars are bad you just have to check them out really well.
Wayne
Originally Posted By: ABursell
Originally Posted By: 2010Civic
Another thing to consider is when the damage took place. If it was crashed a few months prior it is likely that all of the bugs haven't been worked out since fixing it. If a car was in an accident 5 years and 60,000 miles ago there is a good chance that car is just fine.
Now if it happened a few months ago when the value is $8,000 and the insurance company is only willing to pay up to 50% of the value, well that is still $4,000 worth of damage.
I cannot see a scenario in here where a bumper cover results in the car being declared a total loss.
You might be surprised. Using a more likely cap of about $3000-3500, and I wouldn't be entirely surprised if front-end damage hit that figure. Keep a few things in mind:
1 - Fusion front ends are not cheap. A few months back, I priced out a replacement chrome grille and found out that it's actually 5 different parts, amounting to over $800 new (and not even genuine Ford new stock). This was only the grille itself. Genuine ford headlamp assemblies run over $300 each side, for another $600-700 if you have to replace both.
2 - Many insurance companies will not repair many parts of damaged cars with anything but genuine OEM new parts. This adds up quickly.
3 - Front end impacts often will affect multiple safety systems, like air bags, seat belts, bumpers, etc..
When you combine the above, even a moderate front end impact which only actually causes impact damage to:
Front bumper cover moulding(s) - ($200+ for aftermarket / 3rd party)
Grille assembly ($800+ for aftermarket / 3rd party)
L & R side headlamps ($600 - 700, easy)
bumper assembly (Somewhere between $200 and $350 for aftermarket)
radiator ($112 on RockAuto for a Motorcraft part)
.. can very easily stack up to $2000 for aftermarket parts alone, never mind labor and potential need for genuine OEM parts. Even if the insurance company capped out at $3500, I wouldn't be at all surprised at a front end collision being a potential write off in the OP's referenced car.
On the other hand, if I had access to a suitable donor car, such as at a junkyard or from CL, I suspect I could fix the above myself for under $1000 and be 100% roadworthy.
For comparison - Back in 2008, I had a 2001 Ford Taurus which was hit from behind and pushed into the car in front of me. The rear bumper barely looked damaged at all (although it was most likely in the "should replace" category), the front right quarter panel metal was ruined, and my right side headlamp broken.. plus a few other (mostly cosmetic) damages.
Despite the fact that it was 100% roadworthy, and did suffer any drivability issues as a result, the insurance company stopped counting at just under $2400. They wrote me a check, and I bought it back for about $180.
Originally Posted By: 2010Civic
Another thing to consider is when the damage took place. If it was crashed a few months prior it is likely that all of the bugs haven't been worked out since fixing it. If a car was in an accident 5 years and 60,000 miles ago there is a good chance that car is just fine.
Now if it happened a few months ago when the value is $8,000 and the insurance company is only willing to pay up to 50% of the value, well that is still $4,000 worth of damage.
I cannot see a scenario in here where a bumper cover results in the car being declared a total loss.
You might be surprised. Using a more likely cap of about $3000-3500, and I wouldn't be entirely surprised if front-end damage hit that figure. Keep a few things in mind:
1 - Fusion front ends are not cheap. A few months back, I priced out a replacement chrome grille and found out that it's actually 5 different parts, amounting to over $800 new (and not even genuine Ford new stock). This was only the grille itself. Genuine ford headlamp assemblies run over $300 each side, for another $600-700 if you have to replace both.
2 - Many insurance companies will not repair many parts of damaged cars with anything but genuine OEM new parts. This adds up quickly.
3 - Front end impacts often will affect multiple safety systems, like air bags, seat belts, bumpers, etc..
When you combine the above, even a moderate front end impact which only actually causes impact damage to:
Front bumper cover moulding(s) - ($200+ for aftermarket / 3rd party)
Grille assembly ($800+ for aftermarket / 3rd party)
L & R side headlamps ($600 - 700, easy)
bumper assembly (Somewhere between $200 and $350 for aftermarket)
radiator ($112 on RockAuto for a Motorcraft part)
.. can very easily stack up to $2000 for aftermarket parts alone, never mind labor and potential need for genuine OEM parts. Even if the insurance company capped out at $3500, I wouldn't be at all surprised at a front end collision being a potential write off in the OP's referenced car.
On the other hand, if I had access to a suitable donor car, such as at a junkyard or from CL, I suspect I could fix the above myself for under $1000 and be 100% roadworthy.
For comparison - Back in 2008, I had a 2001 Ford Taurus which was hit from behind and pushed into the car in front of me. The rear bumper barely looked damaged at all (although it was most likely in the "should replace" category), the front right quarter panel metal was ruined, and my right side headlamp broken.. plus a few other (mostly cosmetic) damages.
Despite the fact that it was 100% roadworthy, and did suffer any drivability issues as a result, the insurance company stopped counting at just under $2400. They wrote me a check, and I bought it back for about $180.
Originally Posted By: SirTanon
You might be surprised.
I don't dispute anything you mention, and you're right that I might be surprised at the actual numbers. But this dealership supposedly has proof that "only the front bumper" was replaced, backed by documentation and pictures.
Now if they started talking underneath structure, airbags, mechanical parts, etc. I could easily see this happening. I remain skeptical. Only the front bumper seems fishy to me...
You might be surprised.
I don't dispute anything you mention, and you're right that I might be surprised at the actual numbers. But this dealership supposedly has proof that "only the front bumper" was replaced, backed by documentation and pictures.
Now if they started talking underneath structure, airbags, mechanical parts, etc. I could easily see this happening. I remain skeptical. Only the front bumper seems fishy to me...
If it was indeed ONLY the actual front bumper, then yes.. very suspect. The way I personally would interpret that statement, however, would be the "bumper" as a more inclusive overall structure. Remember, we don't normally see the bumper - we see the bumper "cover".. if the bumper was damaged, then it stands to reason the stuff covering would also require replacing.
If it was a former rental car when the accident occurred a lot of times they total them at a very low % of the vehicle's value as they still get a lot for the salvage, no downtime for repairs and no costly supplements to handle.
Originally Posted By: RhondaHonda
If it was a former rental car when the accident occurred a lot of times they total them at a very low % of the vehicle's value as they still get a lot for the salvage, no downtime for repairs and no costly supplements to handle.
That. Honestly...my biggest concern would be the car having a cheesy aftermarket bumper cover.
If it was a former rental car when the accident occurred a lot of times they total them at a very low % of the vehicle's value as they still get a lot for the salvage, no downtime for repairs and no costly supplements to handle.
That. Honestly...my biggest concern would be the car having a cheesy aftermarket bumper cover.
Originally Posted By: i_hate_autofraud
GM dealer tried to sell me a car with a tranny problem:
I OBDII scanned a GM car and got a P1811 code, so I took down the serial number,
I offered the dealer $1,500 less, he refused, so I said I got the serial number and
I'll find the new owner and see if you disclosed the problem or not, they got mad
but sold me the car for $1,300 less! Then I fixed it for $250!
That's awesome! But how do you track down the owner of a car? And what is the serial number? Do you mean VIN?
GM dealer tried to sell me a car with a tranny problem:
I OBDII scanned a GM car and got a P1811 code, so I took down the serial number,
I offered the dealer $1,500 less, he refused, so I said I got the serial number and
I'll find the new owner and see if you disclosed the problem or not, they got mad
but sold me the car for $1,300 less! Then I fixed it for $250!
That's awesome! But how do you track down the owner of a car? And what is the serial number? Do you mean VIN?
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