I also believe I should proofread my posts for typos more carefully.
How cold can 70/30 coolant mix get?
- Thread starter SteveD2
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I beleive that the hogher the concentration of coolant, the higher the boiling point, up to a point. It's the heat transferring ability that is negatively affected by too much coolant.
I have a Cherokee too, and I just flush and filled it yesterday, with what I hope is about 60/40.
I wouldn't use Water Wetter if I wee you, I had it in mine and there was an oily film i the overflow bottle and a bit of junk around the radiator cap. The last flush and fill was this time last year, and I had added the WW about 6 months ago.
The 4.0 should run at around 210, you don't want it running way cooler than that.
I have a Cherokee too, and I just flush and filled it yesterday, with what I hope is about 60/40.
I wouldn't use Water Wetter if I wee you, I had it in mine and there was an oily film i the overflow bottle and a bit of junk around the radiator cap. The last flush and fill was this time last year, and I had added the WW about 6 months ago.
The 4.0 should run at around 210, you don't want it running way cooler than that.
I ran 70% distilled water / 30% supertech all makes / models in my old 2002 S10 after I replaced the img. Ran perfect. I parked it over night in -4 degrees weather, and the coolant was still in liquid form in the morning when I started it up. You are good to go w 70/30 unless u live in extreme cold weather
Originally Posted By: barkingspider
I ran 70% distilled water / 30% supertech all makes / models in my old 2002 S10 after I replaced the img. Ran perfect. I parked it over night in -4 degrees weather, and the coolant was still in liquid form in the morning when I started it up. You are good to go w 70/30 unless u live in extreme cold weather
Zombie thread back from the dead.
Side note, why chance it with 70/30? Run 50/50 and get more of a margin in case a random cold spell happens or you drive somewhere with extreme cold a few years later and you forgot you are running a heavy water mix?
I ran 70% distilled water / 30% supertech all makes / models in my old 2002 S10 after I replaced the img. Ran perfect. I parked it over night in -4 degrees weather, and the coolant was still in liquid form in the morning when I started it up. You are good to go w 70/30 unless u live in extreme cold weather
Zombie thread back from the dead.
Side note, why chance it with 70/30? Run 50/50 and get more of a margin in case a random cold spell happens or you drive somewhere with extreme cold a few years later and you forgot you are running a heavy water mix?
I used 70/30 mix in my 22 year old 1986 Toyota Camry, I also used it in my 15 year old Nissan Pathfinder and in my 17 year old 2002 Nissan Sentra SER. What taught me to use the maximum anti-corrosion mixture is my 1972 Dodge Dart. Back in those days, (the seventies) I did the annual flush and refill and after 8 years of restoring the caustic nature of fresh water every year, cooling system problems abounded. Overheating, leaking radiator (corrosion), water pump failure, replace thermostat, hoses, etc, etc. It was a real PITA and expensive to replace the radiator, hoses, pump, thermostat, fluid etc. 25 miles from home (I was commuting at the time).
Talked to a few long haul truckers who owned their rigs. Lo and behold....NONE of them ever removed their antifreeze or flushed out their systems ever, unless they needed a mechanical repair like water pump. They used high ratio antifreeze to water solutions. Claimed 50/50 was not enough to protect from corrosion long term and preferred 70/30 instead. They used a can of anti-rust and water pump lubricant every year and they drove 50,000 + miles a year and never had a problem. Since I adopted their wisdom, I haven't had a cooling system issue and I haven't flushed a system since...not even after 20 years!!!.
So I highly recommend 70/30 solution and checking the radiator cap every year, replacing it every 5 years. 70/30 solution makes better quality hoses last a long, long time. Never replaced hoses on the 22 year old Camry or the 15 year old Pathfinder or 17 year old Sentra. Flushing the system periodically is hogwash and exactly what you should NOT do. Get the system set up for long term rust prevention and efficient cooling and enjoy the savings.
Ethylene glycol cools better than water than untreated water that creates scale and rust in the system. The higher temperature and lower temperature capability of a 70/30 mix is an indication of its ability to handle the widest range of temperatures which means the widest range of conditions both inside the motor and outside the motor, Don't believe that water cools better. If it did, it wouldn't need a "water wetter" to improve its heat absorption. Many contact wetters are, you guessed it, ethylene glycol.
For normal, non-competition, moderate RPM road use, 70/30 and anti-rust is the way to go particularly on the Northern Tier states. Of course, you have to take into account the metallurgy of the engine, heater core and radiator and adjust anti-corrosives accordingly but be wary of manufacturer claims that try to convince you that only THEIR product will work right. The chemistry they employ does not eliminate corrosion: it eliminates claims while the car is under warranty only.
If you keep your cars a long time, you just have to know what the cooling system really requires for 20 years and when your oil choice (viscosity, type and additives) needs to change. 0W-20 works great to meet CAFE requirements but OMG that is really thin oil in Southern Heat but dealers will keep using it because it assures premature engine wear after the warranty is over. Same thing applies to proprietary manufacturer cooling solutions. You just have to know if you want to keep a car a long time (and invest the savings for your long, early, healthier retirement!)
Note to jayg: the 70% water/30% supertech mix will not preserve your system long term. Some corrosion will occur and the hoses will age faster. The water in the system will continually pick up fresh oxygen from the overflow tank and keep injecting that corrosive oxygen into the system every time your car cools down and the vacuum caused by the cooldown sucks mixture from the overflow tank. You need to increase your anti-freeze component and add an anti-rust and water pump lubricant annually. If you start with 50/50 solution, you can annually top off with 100% anti-freeze and never flush the system again. I have had 22+15+17 years on three cars that prove it. BTW, the 22 year old Camry was purchased used by a mechanic for a "20 mile drive to work" commute. He couldn't get over the fact that the A/C, never recharged, operated perfectly.
Talked to a few long haul truckers who owned their rigs. Lo and behold....NONE of them ever removed their antifreeze or flushed out their systems ever, unless they needed a mechanical repair like water pump. They used high ratio antifreeze to water solutions. Claimed 50/50 was not enough to protect from corrosion long term and preferred 70/30 instead. They used a can of anti-rust and water pump lubricant every year and they drove 50,000 + miles a year and never had a problem. Since I adopted their wisdom, I haven't had a cooling system issue and I haven't flushed a system since...not even after 20 years!!!.
So I highly recommend 70/30 solution and checking the radiator cap every year, replacing it every 5 years. 70/30 solution makes better quality hoses last a long, long time. Never replaced hoses on the 22 year old Camry or the 15 year old Pathfinder or 17 year old Sentra. Flushing the system periodically is hogwash and exactly what you should NOT do. Get the system set up for long term rust prevention and efficient cooling and enjoy the savings.
Ethylene glycol cools better than water than untreated water that creates scale and rust in the system. The higher temperature and lower temperature capability of a 70/30 mix is an indication of its ability to handle the widest range of temperatures which means the widest range of conditions both inside the motor and outside the motor, Don't believe that water cools better. If it did, it wouldn't need a "water wetter" to improve its heat absorption. Many contact wetters are, you guessed it, ethylene glycol.
For normal, non-competition, moderate RPM road use, 70/30 and anti-rust is the way to go particularly on the Northern Tier states. Of course, you have to take into account the metallurgy of the engine, heater core and radiator and adjust anti-corrosives accordingly but be wary of manufacturer claims that try to convince you that only THEIR product will work right. The chemistry they employ does not eliminate corrosion: it eliminates claims while the car is under warranty only.
If you keep your cars a long time, you just have to know what the cooling system really requires for 20 years and when your oil choice (viscosity, type and additives) needs to change. 0W-20 works great to meet CAFE requirements but OMG that is really thin oil in Southern Heat but dealers will keep using it because it assures premature engine wear after the warranty is over. Same thing applies to proprietary manufacturer cooling solutions. You just have to know if you want to keep a car a long time (and invest the savings for your long, early, healthier retirement!)
Note to jayg: the 70% water/30% supertech mix will not preserve your system long term. Some corrosion will occur and the hoses will age faster. The water in the system will continually pick up fresh oxygen from the overflow tank and keep injecting that corrosive oxygen into the system every time your car cools down and the vacuum caused by the cooldown sucks mixture from the overflow tank. You need to increase your anti-freeze component and add an anti-rust and water pump lubricant annually. If you start with 50/50 solution, you can annually top off with 100% anti-freeze and never flush the system again. I have had 22+15+17 years on three cars that prove it. BTW, the 22 year old Camry was purchased used by a mechanic for a "20 mile drive to work" commute. He couldn't get over the fact that the A/C, never recharged, operated perfectly.
Wow that's quite the tome, none of which is supported by anything other than opinion. All my old cars have a 50/50 mix and even after over 430,000 miles in the Sienna the cooling system is sparking clean - which you can see in my threads I posted during timing belt changes. The same is true for my Honda and BMW, both of which are at the same concentration.
A couple of things, yes plain water cools better, simple physics determines that. I would never do that based on other reasons, but the heat transfer and the heat capacity of water is higher than for glycol.
A water pump lubricant? You have to be kidding on that one. Tell me, what happens if coolant (either water or glycol) comes in contact with the water pump bearing with or without the lubricant additive?
And your last part about the A/C cooling perfect, how is that connected to the engine cooling system?
My takeaway on your post is that you don't have a clue as to what you're talking about, as I've seen in some of your other posts here on Bitog.
A couple of things, yes plain water cools better, simple physics determines that. I would never do that based on other reasons, but the heat transfer and the heat capacity of water is higher than for glycol.
A water pump lubricant? You have to be kidding on that one. Tell me, what happens if coolant (either water or glycol) comes in contact with the water pump bearing with or without the lubricant additive?
And your last part about the A/C cooling perfect, how is that connected to the engine cooling system?
My takeaway on your post is that you don't have a clue as to what you're talking about, as I've seen in some of your other posts here on Bitog.
Originally Posted by Anonymous
I guess everyone has problems then because the average car today is DESIGNED to run at 210-220 for maximum efficiency and emmisons performance.
With more water it will cool better. Antifreeze is actually bad for cooling - the best would be straight water. Boiling isn't an issue even with straight water, the system is under pressure and if the engine is 212 degrees or hotter you've got a problem anyway...
I guess everyone has problems then because the average car today is DESIGNED to run at 210-220 for maximum efficiency and emmisons performance.
He lost me when his Lister and Pasteur history lesson was backwards. He didn't even credit Pasteur with the rabies and anthrax vaccines.
Originally Posted by GMBoy
I guess everyone has problems then because the average car today is DESIGNED to run at 210-220 for maximum efficiency and emmisons performance.
Ah yes, because the engine inside a Cherokee back in 2004 was an excellent example of the average 2020 engine.
Ill add you to the BITOG frog hair splitting guild.
I guess everyone has problems then because the average car today is DESIGNED to run at 210-220 for maximum efficiency and emmisons performance.
Ah yes, because the engine inside a Cherokee back in 2004 was an excellent example of the average 2020 engine.
Ill add you to the BITOG frog hair splitting guild.
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