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#4281432 - 12/21/16 04:46 PM Mobil 1 EP 5W-30, 16,400 mi, 2008 4 Runner V8
GMZ Offline


Registered: 06/04/06
Posts: 277
Loc: PNW
Oil was in service from Oct 2015 until Dec 2016, utilizing a M1 EP (M1-209) filter. Mix of hwy and city miles, mostly hwy with lots of trips over mountain passes. I replaced with more Mobil 1 EP 5W-30 and a Fram Ultra (3614) filter. I last had a UOA done by both Blackstone/OAI labs (here) at the 51,000 mi mark. This was a heavy driving year for me so Ill probably stick with a 15k OCI.

Lab: Blackstone
Miles on oil: 16,400
Time on oil: 14 mo
Miles on engine: 89,480
Sample date: 12/16/2016
Report date: 12/21/2016
Makeup oil added: 0

Aluminum 6
Chromium 0
Iron 22
Copper 3
Lead 1
Tin 1
Molybdenum 83
Nickel 1
Manganese 0
Silver 0
Titanium 0
Potassium 3
Boron 29
Silicon 19
Sodium 23
Calcium 1243
Magnesium 730
Phosphorous 731
Zinc 891
Barium 0

SUS Viscosity @ 210* F = 60.4
cSt Viscosity @ 100* C = 10.32
Flashpoint in * F = 390

Fuel % = <0.5
Antifreeze % = 0.0
Water % = 0.0
Insolubles % = 0.4

TBN = 2.6
_________________________
350Z--->T4R--->370Z--->T4R--->TDI--->T4R
2006 Titanium Silver V6 SE 4x4-Sold
2007 Titanium Silver V8 SE 4x4-Wrecked
2008 Galactic Grey V8 SE 4x4-Current

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#4281446 - 12/21/16 05:10 PM Re: Mobil 1 EP 5W-30, 16,400 mi, 2008 4 Runner V8 [Re: GMZ]
oil_film_movies Offline


Registered: 06/13/16
Posts: 1528
Loc: MN
Looks great. Viscosity kv100 stayed in grade, TBN actually looked like you could go another couple thousand miles before getting to 1. Maybe silicon is a little high, not sure. Anybody know what silicon limits should be, or is a lot of that anti-foam additives.

I'd check any oil filter you put on for closed spiral tube louvers, the latest thing to be paranoid about these days. Report here if you find closed louvers, as some have pointed out. Nice choice of Fram Ultra, is there really anything better? Insolubles might have been a bit high here though. I think 0.1 is the gold standard.

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#4281452 - 12/21/16 05:13 PM Re: Mobil 1 EP 5W-30, 16,400 mi, 2008 4 Runner V8 [Re: GMZ]
micmac Offline


Registered: 04/27/15
Posts: 96
Loc: western oregon
Change your air filter maybe. Other than that, I see no fault with this OCI and oil/filter combo.
_________________________
2011 Mazda2, 5 speed manual, 115k miles, 0w20 Eneos Sustina, xg6607 filter

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#4281458 - 12/21/16 05:17 PM Re: Mobil 1 EP 5W-30, 16,400 mi, 2008 4 Runner V8 [Re: GMZ]
THafeez Offline


Registered: 08/15/16
Posts: 614
Loc: Long Island
Will you be able to cut and post the oil filter? I'd love to see what an M1 filter is like after that many miles. smile
_________________________
2004 Toyota Solara SE 2.4 2AZFE
170,000 miles
Belgian Castrol 0W30
Bosch Distance Plus D3421

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#4281463 - 12/21/16 05:21 PM Re: Mobil 1 EP 5W-30, 16,400 mi, 2008 4 Runner V8 [Re: GMZ]
KCJeep Offline


Registered: 06/30/11
Posts: 6858
Loc: Mahzurrah!
Very nice showing for M1 EP.
_________________________
04 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0 145k - GTX 5w30/10w40
09 Lincoln MKZ AWD 84k - Magnatec 5w30
12 KIA Sedona 80k - Edge 0w40
09 Ford Focus 125k - QSUD 5w30

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#4281471 - 12/21/16 05:27 PM Re: Mobil 1 EP 5W-30, 16,400 mi, 2008 4 Runner V8 [Re: micmac]
oil_film_movies Offline


Registered: 06/13/16
Posts: 1528
Loc: MN
Originally Posted By: micmac
Change your air filter maybe. Other than that, I see no fault with this OCI and oil/filter combo.


While the silicon content should be about ten ppm (see VOA for this oil for anti-foam content), not 19, its not due to running an older air filter, since air filters actually filter better as they age (due to the "cake layer" formation on the intake side where pollen, insects, dust, fibers, etc. form a cake layer). Might check for any air leaks around the intake pipe and filter gasket, but that 19 ppm really ain't much.

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#4281556 - 12/21/16 07:30 PM Re: Mobil 1 EP 5W-30, 16,400 mi, 2008 4 Runner V8 [Re: GMZ]
jarad248 Offline


Registered: 11/25/16
Posts: 76
Loc: East TN. usa
3 rules apply here.

1. no oil is good in a crankcase for more than 12 months.

2. oil companies do not dictate oil change intervals.

3. no oil produced today can handle acid in your crankcase beyond 5-8K.

a TBN below 3 is not good. see page here Click here>>: http://www.blackstone-labs.com/do-i-need-a-tbn.php

Read the last example...

The fastest production car in the world had a team of engineers determine Castrol Edge is the best oil in the world.

The proof is in the car. the koenigsegg. the engine and it's records speak volumes. it is what it is. it ain't marketing.

Why are we going for such long OCI anyhow ?

Wallyworld + do it yourself = $$Profit$$ wink

What is wrong with pennzoil high mileage it has WAY more Boron and Moly than mobile 1 and is $15 @ 5 Qt. at WW ?

Even quaker state HM or ultimate would be better really.... Merry Xmas all cool


Edited by jarad248 (12/21/16 07:38 PM)

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#4281572 - 12/21/16 07:54 PM Re: Mobil 1 EP 5W-30, 16,400 mi, 2008 4 Runner V8 [Re: jarad248]
bullwinkle Offline


Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 6891
Loc: Cincinnati, OH, USA
Originally Posted By: jarad248
3 rules apply here.

1. no oil is good in a crankcase for more than 12 months.

2. oil companies do not dictate oil change intervals.

3. no oil produced today can handle acid in your crankcase beyond 5-8K.

a TBN below 3 is not good. see page here Click here>>: http://www.blackstone-labs.com/do-i-need-a-tbn.php

Read the last example...

The fastest production car in the world had a team of engineers determine Castrol Edge is the best oil in the world.

The proof is in the car. the koenigsegg. the engine and it's records speak volumes. it is what it is. it ain't marketing.

Why are we going for such long OCI anyhow ?

Wallyworld + do it yourself = $$Profit$$ wink

What is wrong with pennzoil high mileage it has WAY more Boron and Moly than mobile 1 and is $15 @ 5 Qt. at WW ?

Even quaker state HM or ultimate would be better really.... Merry Xmas all cool
Let's see-#1, wrong (I personally have UOAs showing oil still fine after 2 years plus in my Cummins); #2, wrong-M1 EP is GUARANTEED to handle 15K miles, many modern OLMs will not indicate an OCI needed until 10K; #3, wrong-see above, & my personal condemnation limit for M1 EP was due to shearing a 5W30 into a 20 weight, TBN numbers still good at 10K (on my xB in my sig, look in my post history if you don't believe it). Also, with bypass filtration, many members here have pushed OCIs into & beyond the 25,000 mile range with mainly highway driving-only analysis will show how long oil can be used. Of course, I could always go to Wally World & buy Super Tech dino 5W30 & ST filters & change it every 5K on the xB-but where's the fun in that?
_________________________
06 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4(FG Venturi), 93 GMC C3500 6.2, 89 F-450 7.3, 98 XJ 4.0(XG8A), 05 xB(XG3600), 15 Transit 3.7, 03 Merc Grand Marquis 4.6 2V(XG2)

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#4281593 - 12/21/16 08:14 PM Re: Mobil 1 EP 5W-30, 16,400 mi, 2008 4 Runner V8 [Re: GMZ]
simple_gifts Offline


Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 11602
Loc: Middlesex County CT
jarads posts continue to amaze; despite evidence directly contradicting what he asserts, he soldiers on.

Until a 403,000 mile koenigsegg gets me to work every morning, i will continue to do what I am doing.

Looks stellar OP'r.

Quote:

no oil is good in a crankcase for more than 12 months.


How does it "know?"


Edited by simple_gifts (12/21/16 08:22 PM)
_________________________
2004 Prius; 85K ASL
2003 Echo > 4.1x10^5 miles; 5w-50
2006 B2300;117K;ALM


Was driving an ox cart; Now on the USS Enterprise

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#4281623 - 12/21/16 08:56 PM Re: Mobil 1 EP 5W-30, 16,400 mi, 2008 4 Runner V8 [Re: jarad248]
GMZ Offline


Registered: 06/04/06
Posts: 277
Loc: PNW
Originally Posted By: THafeez
Will you be able to cut and post the oil filter? I'd love to see what an M1 filter is like after that many miles. smile


You know I still have it waiting to go to disposal, I will have to hacksaw into it but I am interested too. Didnt think about it during the change.

I had been using the M1 filters exclusively for many years with no issues but have run out and wanted to try the latest and greatest.

Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Originally Posted By: micmac
Change your air filter maybe. Other than that, I see no fault with this OCI and oil/filter combo.


While the silicon content should be about ten ppm (see VOA for this oil for anti-foam content), not 19, its not due to running an older air filter, since air filters actually filter better as they age (due to the "cake layer" formation on the intake side where pollen, insects, dust, fibers, etc. form a cake layer). Might check for any air leaks around the intake pipe and filter gasket, but that 19 ppm really ain't much.


Yea it wasn't enough for me to be alarmed but enough to take notice, everything was tight. I had a couple trips up and down the west coast on this run FWIW.

I planned on changing the air filter at 100k.

Originally Posted By: jarad248
3 rules apply here.


I think that my UOA history backs up Mobil's claim of EP being a 1 yr/15k mi oil with some room to spare, at least in my application. A test of a Koenigsegg engine can be extrapolated into zero logical comparisons for the 2UZ-FE engine, which just loafs along and is one of the easiest engines on an oil.
_________________________
350Z--->T4R--->370Z--->T4R--->TDI--->T4R
2006 Titanium Silver V6 SE 4x4-Sold
2007 Titanium Silver V8 SE 4x4-Wrecked
2008 Galactic Grey V8 SE 4x4-Current

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#4281646 - 12/21/16 09:20 PM Re: Mobil 1 EP 5W-30, 16,400 mi, 2008 4 Runner V8 [Re: jarad248]
tig1 Offline


Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 12941
Loc: Illinois
Originally Posted By: jarad248
3 rules apply here.

1. no oil is good in a crankcase for more than 12 months.

2. oil companies do not dictate oil change intervals.

3. no oil produced today can handle acid in your crankcase beyond 5-8K.

a TBN below 3 is not good. see page here Click here>>: http://www.blackstone-labs.com/do-i-need-a-tbn.php

Read the last example...

The fastest production car in the world had a team of engineers determine Castrol Edge is the best oil in the world.

The proof is in the car. the koenigsegg. the engine and it's records speak volumes. it is what it is. it ain't marketing.

Why are we going for such long OCI anyhow ?

Wallyworld + do it yourself = $$Profit$$ wink

What is wrong with pennzoil high mileage it has WAY more Boron and Moly than mobile 1 and is $15 @ 5 Qt. at WW ?

Even quaker state HM or ultimate would be better really.... Merry Xmas all cool


Just about everything you said is wrong.
_________________________
2007 Ford Fusion 216,000 miles
M1 0-20 EP
2017 Ford Fusion 38K
M1 0-20 EP
10,000 mile OCIs on both engines
M1 ATF and MC LV
M1 10-30 in all OPE
MC filters


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#4281710 - 12/21/16 10:22 PM Re: Mobil 1 EP 5W-30, 16,400 mi, 2008 4 Runner V8 [Re: jarad248]
jayg Online   content


Registered: 10/04/12
Posts: 1081
Loc: Talkeetna, AK
Originally Posted By: jarad248
3 rules apply here.

1. no oil is good in a crankcase for more than 12 months.

2. oil companies do not dictate oil change intervals.

3. no oil produced today can handle acid in your crankcase beyond 5-8K.

a TBN below 3 is not good. see page here Click here>>: http://www.blackstone-labs.com/do-i-need-a-tbn.php

Read the last example...

The fastest production car in the world had a team of engineers determine Castrol Edge is the best oil in the world.

The proof is in the car. the koenigsegg. the engine and it's records speak volumes. it is what it is. it ain't marketing.

Why are we going for such long OCI anyhow ?

Wallyworld + do it yourself = $$Profit$$ wink

What is wrong with pennzoil high mileage it has WAY more Boron and Moly than mobile 1 and is $15 @ 5 Qt. at WW ?

Even quaker state HM or ultimate would be better really.... Merry Xmas all cool


Please leave. You've posted the same incorrect crazy stuff as gospel since day one.


OP, That Toyota V8 is doing excellent. 19 ppm Silicon is fantastic for 16,400 miles. I agree 100% with your analysis of 15k is going to work just fine for you and you have some testing to confirm your hypothesis.
_________________________
'15 Toyota Prius C TGMO 0w20
'87 Toyota Land Cruiser FJ60 4sp PPHM 5w30
'73 Datsun 240Z 4sp Vintage QS 10w40 from '73 in the sump



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#4281749 - 12/21/16 11:25 PM Re: Mobil 1 EP 5W-30, 16,400 mi, 2008 4 Runner V8 [Re: GMZ]
901Memphis Offline


Registered: 08/14/10
Posts: 12704
Loc: Northern Kentucky
Well the Hennessy venom uses Pennzoil Ultra 5w30 if you want to talk about that.


Also I think we need some more education on TBN

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/354/reserve-alkalinity-oil
_________________________
2002 Buick Century 130k - Built 4T65e(Maxlife) - Edge 0w40 + Fram XG3980
1998 Nissan Altima 337k - 5MT - M1 HM 5w30/Fram Ultra XG7317+MOS+ATP 205

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#4281816 - 12/22/16 03:11 AM Re: Mobil 1 EP 5W-30, 16,400 mi, 2008 4 Runner V8 [Re: oil_film_movies]
zeng Offline


Registered: 09/01/15
Posts: 1795
Loc: Malaysia
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Looks great. Viscosity kv100 stayed in grade, TBN actually looked like you could go another couple thousand miles before getting to 1.

This ....... with low metal wear rates. blush

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#4281985 - 12/22/16 08:55 AM Re: Mobil 1 EP 5W-30, 16,400 mi, 2008 4 Runner V8 [Re: GMZ]
camryrolla Offline


Registered: 07/16/14
Posts: 47
Loc: Louisiana
GMZ,
Commended that you are going the distance with that M1EP filter. It will be interesting to see the 16K OCI side-by-side comparison with current Fram Ultra filter.

for future UOA, try the robust M1 0W-40 and see if the TBN can get you further to 20K miles OCI.
_________________________
'11 Camry 2.5L 130K mi
'07 Corolla 1.8L 210K mi
Always Fram XG filter.

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#4282356 - 12/22/16 03:11 PM Re: Mobil 1 EP 5W-30, 16,400 mi, 2008 4 Runner V8 [Re: GMZ]
bigt61 Offline


Registered: 02/12/13
Posts: 3086
Loc: Virginia
Great report - nice to see someone fully utilize a high quality lube. Silicon looks fine for a 16k run. Thanks for posting.
_________________________
92 Suburban 2500 7.4L 58k M1_0w40 5yr OCI
99 Olds Aurora 4.0L 91K M1_5w30 5yr OCI
13 Dodge Dart 2.0L 30k PP 0w20 OLM OCI
70 Camaro 5.7L 59k

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#4285375 - 12/26/16 10:31 AM Re: Mobil 1 EP 5W-30, 16,400 mi, 2008 4 Runner V8 [Re: GMZ]
btanchors Offline


Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 744
Loc: Herndon, VA
For what it's worth, I have a 2006 Tundra with the same engine.

In addition, I have owned about 10 other Toyota vehicles, and have performed UOAs on all of them long term.

Toyota uses Silicon sealers in its engines. It generally takes a long time (well over 50K miles) for the silicon levels to completely wash out and not contribute significantly to silicon levels in normal OCIs. However, Silicon that leaches out from sealers can accumulate in extended OCIs, and I suspect we're seeing some of that in this silicon level.

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#4289784 - 12/31/16 01:52 PM Re: Mobil 1 EP 5W-30, 16,400 mi, 2008 4 Runner V8 [Re: GMZ]
addyguy Offline


Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 14161
Loc: Canada
Impressive results for 16k. M1EP is a great oil.

The fact that it stayed dead-in-grade impresses me the most.
_________________________
2010 Kia Soul 2U - 2.0L I-4, auto; 114k miles.
5W/10W-30 frankenblend; OEM Kia filter.

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#4291061 - 01/02/17 09:11 AM Re: Mobil 1 EP 5W-30, 16,400 mi, 2008 4 Runner V8 [Re: GMZ]
DoubleWasp Offline


Registered: 05/21/12
Posts: 4603
Loc: Fort Lauderdale, FL
That's a home-run of UOA's. Couldn't imagine a more flawless performance.
_________________________
07 Lincoln Navigator M1 0w-40/FU
68 Charger R/T / Supercharged 440 VR1/DBL7349
07 Ram 3500 4x4 / Cummins 6.7 /DBL7349
17 Maserati GranTurismo Cabrio

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#4291145 - 01/02/17 10:35 AM Re: Mobil 1 EP 5W-30, 16,400 mi, 2008 4 Runner V8 [Re: GMZ]
4WD Offline


Registered: 09/21/10
Posts: 4471
Loc: Texas/International
Nice ... run 14,999 in case you file a claim wink
_________________________
2017 Tahoe 5.3L 4WD
2014 Fusion Hybrid
2013 Cruze RS 1.4T
2010 Canyon 5.3L 4WD

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#4291455 - 01/02/17 05:09 PM Re: Mobil 1 EP 5W-30, 16,400 mi, 2008 4 Runner V8 [Re: GMZ]
GMZ Offline


Registered: 06/04/06
Posts: 277
Loc: PNW
Thanks for the comments guys. Filter pics are here .
_________________________
350Z--->T4R--->370Z--->T4R--->TDI--->T4R
2006 Titanium Silver V6 SE 4x4-Sold
2007 Titanium Silver V8 SE 4x4-Wrecked
2008 Galactic Grey V8 SE 4x4-Current

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#4291730 - 01/02/17 10:30 PM Re: Mobil 1 EP 5W-30, 16,400 mi, 2008 4 Runner V8 [Re: addyguy]
crazyoildude Offline


Registered: 07/23/08
Posts: 9808
Loc: New Jersey
Yup.. M1 is my synthetic of choice
QSUD may come in as my second choice..
_________________________
Check To See That The Oil Jugs You Buy Have The Exact Amount Of Oil In Them And Have An Inner Seal Under The Cap. I Use Mobil 1 And Fram Ultra Filters

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#4293368 - 01/04/17 05:26 PM Re: Mobil 1 EP 5W-30, 16,400 mi, 2008 4 Runner V8 [Re: jarad248]
sdude2k2000 Offline


Registered: 12/02/04
Posts: 552
Loc: Southern Oregon, USA
Originally Posted By: jarad248
3 rules apply here.

1. no oil is good in a crankcase for more than 12 months.

2. oil companies do not dictate oil change intervals.

3. no oil produced today can handle acid in your crankcase beyond 5-8K.

a TBN below 3 is not good. see page here Click here>>: http://www.blackstone-labs.com/do-i-need-a-tbn.php

Read the last example...

The fastest production car in the world had a team of engineers determine Castrol Edge is the best oil in the world.

The proof is in the car. the koenigsegg. the engine and it's records speak volumes. it is what it is. it ain't marketing.

Why are we going for such long OCI anyhow ?

Wallyworld + do it yourself = $$Profit$$ wink

What is wrong with pennzoil high mileage it has WAY more Boron and Moly than mobile 1 and is $15 @ 5 Qt. at WW ?

Even quaker state HM or ultimate would be better really.... Merry Xmas all cool


While most of what was said here is badly worded/phrases/expressed... there is ONE thing that I see worth elaborating on. To say a "TBN of less than 3 is automatically bad -or- more than 12mo is bad" is not appropriate, but the two do have one thing in common... these extended drain/interval UOAs also should have the TAN tested. Once the TAN gets above the TBN - it means the detergents aren't able to fully neutralize the acids and there becomes concern surrounding corrosion protection. This wouldn't necessarily show up on a UOA either. I think that's where he was going with those two statements (albeit very poorly). Not defending him, but I'm personally always curious to see the TAN along with the TBN on an engine after a drain interval like this. Mobil 1 oils tend to have a naturally higher TAN than other oils anyway... just worth noting. My personal preference is to change the oil as the TBN/TAN cross over each other. In my wife's V6 fusion running Pennzoil Ultra Plat - that's right around 7,500mi (UOA confirmed).


Edited by sdude2k2000 (01/04/17 05:27 PM)
_________________________
'08 Ford Fusion SEL 3.0L
'15 Toyota Prius 1.8L

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#4314038 - 01/27/17 12:37 PM Re: Mobil 1 EP 5W-30, 16,400 mi, 2008 4 Runner V8 [Re: GMZ]
veryHeavy Offline


Registered: 11/04/16
Posts: 479
Loc: MN, CA
Could this "extended performance" oil make it to 25000 (like Amsoil SS claims to do)?

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#4314437 - 01/27/17 10:02 PM Re: Mobil 1 EP 5W-30, 16,400 mi, 2008 4 Runner V8 [Re: GMZ]
CT8 Offline


Registered: 10/09/14
Posts: 9487
Loc: Idaho
Toyota makes a great vehicle. Perfect, nope nothing is.

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#4324606 - 02/08/17 09:47 PM Re: Mobil 1 EP 5W-30, 16,400 mi, 2008 4 Runner V8 [Re: veryHeavy]
GMZ Offline


Registered: 06/04/06
Posts: 277
Loc: PNW
Originally Posted By: veryHeavy
Could this "extended performance" oil make it to 25000 (like Amsoil SS claims to do)?



Based on the numbers I would say 20k is the max for this oil in my application.

If I were going to push it that long, or under fill and top off halfway through the OCI I would re think my filter choice.

Guy here with a Sequoia used to run 20k+ with M1 EP and a Donaldson P169071.
_________________________
350Z--->T4R--->370Z--->T4R--->TDI--->T4R
2006 Titanium Silver V6 SE 4x4-Sold
2007 Titanium Silver V8 SE 4x4-Wrecked
2008 Galactic Grey V8 SE 4x4-Current

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