Oil for 1981 Benz 240D?

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Hi. A friend has relocated to suburban Chicago with his '81 240D, which is a non-turbo model. Would Rotella T6 5W-30 be a good choice for his occasional cold-weather starts? He intends to keep the car covered for most of the winter but does not want to be limited to only warm-weather drives.

I used to look for the CH-4 oil rating when I drove my 2000 VW TDI, but I know that designation has been superseded....and I definitely do not know what a vintage engine like his calls for and what the equivalent would be these days (I know certain current designations are backwards-compatible, but not all). The local MB dealership does not have service department hours tomorrow, which is Saturday.

Thank you!
 
That would be a perfectly acceptable choice. Any A3/B4 type lubricant would also do the trick. Just about any HDEO would be acceptable as well, but its viscosity would have to be tailored to the expected conditions, like the 5w-30 Rotella you asked about.
 
If you have a German car, then it's a real good idea to use the Liqui Moly oil finder (It can be set to English) to see what they list. They will list the so called best oil first and then list all of the oils they make that are OK in terms of viscosity range and Acea certs. If you set the site to English (US) it will also list the API cert oils.

Older VW TDI engines seem to like heavy oils that have a lot of AW additives, Zinc in particular. Although an 0w30 might be OK in the winter, a 15w40 truck oil often produces the best results in the summer.
If you do go thick in the suumer, make sure the top end oil flow is not restricted by sludge or varnish deposits.

If you want to look for equivalent products to the recommended LM oil list, the US Petroleum Institute that works with the API folks has a good equivalent oil finder, where you select a major brand oil and it then lists the nearest matches for various other companies. Although German Synthoils (G4) don't have many good matches in performance terms.
 
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A 1981 240D does not need any oils with fancy certifications or elaborate procedures for buying them. Any modern HDEO of the appropriate viscosity for his climate will be more than sufficient, as would any off the shelf A3/B4 he can find at Walmart or the jobber of his choice.
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
A 1981 240D does not need any oils with fancy certifications or elaborate procedures for buying them. Any modern HDEO of the appropriate viscosity for his climate will be more than sufficient, as would any off the shelf A3/B4 he can find at Walmart or the jobber of his choice.

+1.
Any A3/B4 or HDEO would be more than sufficient. I would only advise not to use Ow30 or 5w30 oils. 5w40 would be fine year round.
 
Don't they require a 10w40? (Not even sure where to find that.)

15w40 would be my vote. Possibly 5w40 in the winter depending on how frequently it urinates.
 
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Having owned a 300DT of that vintage, if you want it to have a chance of starting cold, make sure all glow plugs & battery are good, don't run anything thicker than a 10W30 in winter (Rotella T, T5, Delo 400, or Mystik JT-8). A 5W40 works well, but be prepared for a lot of leakage & consumption (unless you have a new rebuild & new gaskets). In summer you can run any HDEO you want.
 
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
Having owned a 300DT of that vintage, if you want it to have a chance of starting cold unplugged, make sure all glow plugs & battery are good, don't run anything thicker than a 10W30 in winter (Rotella T, T5, Delo 400, or Mystik JT-8). A 5W40 works well, but be prepared for a lot of leakage & consumption (unless you have a new rebuild & new gaskets). In summer you can run any HDEO you want.
 
I've had a 240D and a 300TD and get the same hot oil pressure on straight 30, 5w40, or 15w40. He'd be fine with that rotella. That car keeps the revs up under load anyway, just to move, so the pressure will be pegged.
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Originally Posted By: chrisri
Originally Posted By: Garak
A 1981 240D does not need any oils with fancy certifications or elaborate procedures for buying them. Any modern HDEO of the appropriate viscosity for his climate will be more than sufficient, as would any off the shelf A3/B4 he can find at Walmart or the jobber of his choice.

+1.
Any A3/B4 or HDEO would be more than sufficient. I would only advise not to use Ow30 or 5w30 oils. 5w40 would be fine year round.


If you are operating a VW TDI in an area that gets very cold in winter, using an 0w30 would be a real good move, BUT in a real hot area a 15w40 would be good. For an all year oil, a 5w40 is the best compromise.
All of the oils should be A3/B4 and I would be careful about some HDEO's as they are not all in that cat due to excessive Zinc ash levels. Some of the cheaper ones are A3/B3 which is OK for short term use only.

My own TDI is very similar in terms of which oil it likes and the best results were not from HDEO's but from Liqui Moly Synthoil High Tech 5w40 and Shell Ultra (Penn in the US) 5w40 with half a can of Ceratec.
Both oils clean well and the LM Synthoil has 1250 ppm of Zinc, which is about as close to the CAT ash limits as you can go.

In terms of cheap oils that are available in the US, Castrol Magnetec 10w40 (Make sure it's an A3/B4 and not a B3 version) or the equivalent Mobil 10w40 (Use the Pet guide equivalent oil finder) should be good if it's not for too cold an area, BUT with this type of older engine the AW additive really do need to be boosted and assuming it has the same CAT as the one used in the EU, that does limit the choice and the only additive made to a reliable standard that works as well as Zinc is Ceratec, although there is a similar product made in the US, although I've not seen a VOA or any UOA results from its use.
 
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Thanks to all so far. In fact, Rotella T6 5W-40 is what I originally meant, even though I typed 30.

I never knew a diesel-appropriate oil could be used in a non-diesel application, or why anyone would even want to do that. This Rotella T6 5W-40 is described as an "All-Vehicle" product. It really covers all the bases? Does Heavy Duty Engine Oil now universally refer to diesels?

CJ-4 is the latest designation for a diesel-rated oil, right?

I certainly trust the comments so far that the T6 5W-40 is the right choice for the 240D, just wondering about a little of the background.
 
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
The thing is an agricultural implement. T6 in 5W 30 should be fine for cold weather.


Guffaw! Indeed, that 240D engine is pretty tractor-like!
 
Sunday could mark the coldest Bears home game ever. High is expected to be 3F. That 5W-30 may be a good move.
 
Prolly not going to get to many miles total... Oil changes every other year prolly ...

If it were me, I'd keep the battery on a Tender and make sure all the wiring was really good, grounds , etc.

I'd run T6 Rotella year round
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Originally Posted By: UltrafanUK
If you are operating a VW TDI in an area that gets very cold in winter, using an 0w30 would be a real good move, BUT in a real hot area a 15w40 would be good. For an all year oil, a 5w40 is the best compromise.
All of the oils should be A3/B4 and I would be careful about some HDEO's as they are not all in that cat due to excessive Zinc ash levels. Some of the cheaper ones are A3/B3 which is OK for short term use only.

But it's not; this is a 1981 Benz 240D. So, none of those concerns hold true. An A3/B3 is even sufficient for that vehicle, since it probably called for something even earlier than CF, more like CD.

KlooksKleek: The Rotella 5w-40 will be just fine, too. As you can see, I run a CJ-4/SM HDEO in my G37. It is dual rated, and totally acceptable for gasoline engines, provided one knows a little something about the specifications. Mobil even endorses it for high performance gasoline applications. CJ-4 is current; CK-4 is newer and being rolled out. I get Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40 at a very good price, rivalling conventional, and it's convenient for me to go to the distributor, so I do so.

With respect to the comments about avoiding 0w-30 and 5w-30, that depends. If they are an A3/B4 or CJ-4 type 0w-30 or 5w-30, one can go for it, if one likes, provided the engine doesn't leak or consume a boatload of oil. These 0w-30 and 5w-30 examples will have a much higher HTHS than was required of the 10w-40 examples from when the vehicle was new. If it burns or leaks a lot, avoid those options. Also, to save money, it might be worthwhile to avoid those options, too, since something like Castrol 0w-30 A3/B4 is available only in 1 quart bottles, which is hardly economical.
 
Thank you to all. I've read and appreciated all responses.

The dirty deed (literally!) is done. Rotella T6 is now in the engine and let's hope it will help at least a bit in terms of a cold start. We got it running today in 24F degree temps but the machine was not happy to do so. Seemed to crank decently but took several tries to get it to catch. Fuel is fresh and from a local place, so I'm sure it is blended for winter and not a problem. Regardless, we threw in some Power Service anti-gel and filled the tank. Gave the car a 8-mile run before the oil/filter change and an 8-mile run after.

It's a dirty burner, for sure, and honestly I'm not much of a fan having now experienced the car up close. It looks and seems pretty worn, although it's got a really great, classic appearance. Having owned a 2000 TDI of 1.9 liters, this 1981 2.4-liter 240D is an entirely different animal and not a very admirable one in its present state. It's got hard-core diesel exhaust odor, probably doesn't have a single item of pollution control, and the owner says he's got to add oil more than just infrequently (no leaks, he says). With the T6, I guess he'll probably need to start adding even more, and to prepare for leaks, too. We'll see. But what can you do, it's flippin' winter time in Chicago.
 
When I had a 1981 240D in Colorado, I added the factory block heater. It installed in the water jacket by removing a factory plug.

Huge difference I starting when the temperature dropped. Highly recommend it....along with a set of new glow plugs.

The only problem was getting the plug out of the block - it was a large (14mm? 17mm?) internal hex and took several hundred foot lbs of torque to break it loose. I used a three foot pipe over the Allen wrench and lifted it using my legs....the whole car was moving under the force.

It's not picky about oil. 1981 oil wasn't that good...and nearly any modern diesel oil will be great.

Also, might check valve adjustment, that takes a set of special wrenches that includes two offset open ends and one valve spring keeper wrench. Excess valve clearance leads to power loss and insufficient clearance can burn the valve.

You should get several hundred thousand miles out of a properly maintained OM-616...
 
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Originally Posted By: Astro14
When I had a 1981 240D in Colorado, I added the factory block heater. It installed in the water jacket by removing a factory plug.

Huge difference I starting when the temperature dropped. Highly recommend it....along with a set of new glow plugs.

The only problem was getting the plug out of the block - it was a large (14mm? 17mm?) internal hex and took several hundred foot lbs of torque to break it loose. I used a three foot pipe over the Allen wrench and lifted it using my legs....the whole car was moving under the force.

It's not picky about oil. 1981 oil wasn't that good...and nearly any modern diesel oil will be great.

Also, might check valve adjustment, that takes a set of special wrenches that includes two offset open ends and one valve spring keeper wrench. Excess valve clearance leads to power loss and insufficient clearance can burn the valve.

You should get several hundred thousand miles out of a properly maintained OM-616...


Thanks, Astro. I'm urging him to get the OEM block heater. I checked for its availability at the dealership and it can still be ordered. Installation, however, might be a big question mark based on your experience. The local independent Benz mechanic seems like a very negative guy. The prospect of putting several hundred foot-pounds of torque might just make a person that way! lol
 
MBDiesel.jpg

This is what can be used to start to advise...

Recognize that those oil specs aren't exactly modern, here is some discussion on ccmc if you like, but the synopsis is that ccmc G5 is similar to ACEA a3.

That said, in the world of old idi MB diesels, the use of standard HDEOs work great. Run of the mill 15w-40 oils are perfect for near zero starting of w123 engines in good shape, but 5w-40 variants will do better. I've run 5w-40 HDEOs in my w123s since the mid 2000s.

A good valve adjustment, good glow plugs, good battery, and good starting procedure also help, possibly more than the oil.
 
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