Would you pay more?

[Solarent]

Just curious - we have all seen the mid-level gasoline grades - 89 Octane. Usually the price is somewhere between the 87 and 91.
I never buy 89 I just buy 91 when I need it. Costco only has 2 options 87 and 91 near me.

So what if someone used that 3rd button and came out with a Real Premium fuel - with strong cleaners (so I don't have to use a bottled additive) some added wear protection and friction modifiers with proven fuel economy benefits - would you buy it? would you pay the $0.10/gallon difference?

Would you use something like this every oil change instead of buying a bottled product? ie only for occasional use?

just curious because I keep seeing more and more options for octane levels, but never for actual performance benefits. I wonder why that is?

 

[Bzab32]

They have this for diesel fuel in my area you can buy the conventional #2 or you can get the premium fuel with a better cetane rating and added lubrication/cleaners. It costs $0.10 more a gallon, i buy it if i dont have any of my additive on hand. That would come out to $3.80 a tank, when i can get a bottle of additive that treats 250 gallons for $15. So I would spend an extra $10 on 250 gallons of fuel, not a crazy markup at all.

 

[barkingspider]

Use whatever ur vehicle recommends for best results as that's what ur vehicle is tuned for. If u want to clean the fuel system, use techron or something similar. 91 octane in an 87 octane vehicle will NOT make it run better

 

[69GTX]

Do "real" 93 octane gasolines really have more cleaners than the 87 and 89's? Not sure about that. At my BJ's club they only offer 87 and 93, and probably not Tier 1 gasolines either. So for my 4.6L I usually end up getting a mix of 93 and 87 since the owner's manual recommends 91 in it...or I'll fill with 93 and top off a half tank with 87 next time through. If the 93 really does clean better, than that's a plus I wasn't aware of.

I would probably pay an extra 10c per gallon knowing I'm getting a top tier fuel that is keeping my fuel system well cleaned. I do use Techron a couple times per year because I figure it needs it with the less than Tier 1 fuels.

 

[rshaw125]

It's for sale already at Costco. Filled up my new Edge this morning. It is actually cheaper in price!
Premium plus their signature super top tier additive package.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: Solarent
So what if someone used that 3rd button and came out with a Real Premium fuel - with strong cleaners (so I don't have to use a bottled additive) some added wear protection and friction modifiers with proven fuel economy benefits - would you buy it? would you pay the $0.10/gallon difference?

Absolutely. No question. And if only some gas stations carried it, I would rearrange my life to make sure I could fill up at those stations.


Originally Posted By: Solarent
Would you use something like this every oil change instead of buying a bottled product? ie only for occasional use?

Every tank.


Originally Posted By: Solarent
just curious because I keep seeing more and more options for octane levels, but never for actual performance benefits. I wonder why that is?

Excellent question.

It's probably because (the oil companies think) too few people would pay for it to justify the expense.

 

[Rand]

Originally Posted By: barkingspider
Use whatever ur vehicle recommends for best results as that's what ur vehicle is tuned for. If u want to clean the fuel system, use techron or something similar. 91 octane in an 87 octane vehicle will NOT make it run better


Depends on the vehicle.. some of the newer engines with 12:1 and higher compression are detuned using a knock sensor.. because the fuel we have here is worse than the rest of the world.

and some of these little turbo engines that "require 87" can indeed run better on higher octane.

 

[robertcope]

What makes you think that Shell or Exxon or Chevron premium fuel doesn't have enough cleaners, FM, etc?

 

[4WD]

I feel better using Techron and knowing exactly how much and when (like before an oil change) ... Techron also gets rebadged by OEM outboard brands - although another concentration - still a vote of confidence IMO ...
That also allows for alternative chemistry burning Exxon and Shell - then add Techron to Chevron gas once in a while ...
(On top of the small amount in CVX fuels) ...

 

[Bluestream]

I have never used a fuel cleaner in 335KM...no problems...put in a tank of E10 now and then....most FI cleaners are just alcohol, Which is a highly corrosive cleaner.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: robertcope
What makes you think that Shell or Exxon or Chevron premium fuel doesn't have enough cleaners, FM, etc?


Exactly. What analytical process drove that conclusion?

 

[Oregoonian]

Originally Posted By: barkingspider
Use whatever ur vehicle recommends for best results as that's what ur vehicle is tuned for. If u want to clean the fuel system, use techron or something similar. 91 octane in an 87 octane vehicle will NOT make it run better

+1....not a good idea to use 91....when manufacturer recommends 87. Your vehicle is factory tuned for 87.

 

[Alex_V]

Originally Posted By: barkingspider
Use whatever ur vehicle recommends for best results as that's what ur vehicle is tuned for. If u want to clean the fuel system, use techron or something similar. 91 octane in an 87 octane vehicle will NOT make it run better


Forgive me, but buuullllls---! It's not my imagination that the few times I've put regular in my '13 Cruze (turbocharged 1.4L w/VVT and 9.5:1 compression) the reduced acceleration was catching me off gaurd during passing maneuvers. The enthusiast community recognized very quickly that the 1.4T runs much better on higher octane fuels. I run 89 in mine 95% of the time and I've not had to lay a wrench to it outside of recommended maintenance in 82,000 miles.

 

[Solarent]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: robertcope
What makes you think that Shell or Exxon or Chevron premium fuel doesn't have enough cleaners, FM, etc?


Exactly. What analytical process drove that conclusion?


Well for one these stations are Top Tier Fuels - which means all their gasoline needs to have Top Tier Level regardless of the Octane level. They don't make claims saying there is extra cleanliness if I buy an octane level too high for my car.
For two, Top Tier detergent levels are about 3x the LAC dose. (Some marketers like Costco and Shell advertise that they are 5x or 7x the LAC dose)
For three Top Tier clean up tests are based on engines circa 1994-2001
For four a bottle of techron or similar single tank fuel system cleaner treats at about 50X LAC dose (which is why you probably don't want to use it every single tank).

In case you don't believe me on the treat rate of the bottled cleaner, the LAC dosage is somewhere around 80ppm. Lets say your additive comes in a 350ml bottle and treats 15 gallons of fuel, that is about 5800ppm. Its a big difference.

I for one would love to pull up and see 87, 87P 91, 91P so I could use the right octane level my car is tuned for and then get the extra goodies that we see. Have you ever seen how fuel is sold in Europe? They have all kinds of extra claims about fuel economy gains and wear protection and the like. Perhaps a member from over there can chime in with some details.

 

[Solarent]

Originally Posted By: Alex_V
Originally Posted By: barkingspider
Use whatever ur vehicle recommends for best results as that's what ur vehicle is tuned for. If u want to clean the fuel system, use techron or something similar. 91 octane in an 87 octane vehicle will NOT make it run better


Forgive me, but buuullllls---! It's not my imagination that the few times I've put regular in my '13 Cruze (turbocharged 1.4L w/VVT and 9.5:1 compression) the reduced acceleration was catching me off gaurd during passing maneuvers. The enthusiast community recognized very quickly that the 1.4T runs much better on higher octane fuels. I run 89 in mine 95% of the time and I've not had to lay a wrench to it outside of recommended maintenance in 82,000 miles.


This makes sense to me - my Ford Explorer says to use 91 for better fuel economy when operating in severe service. I was at an industry meeting with a GM engineer once and the topic was flexfuel vehicles. He was explaining that flexfuel have sensors in them that tell the car what level of ethanol you are using (and octane level is a part of it because ethanol has a naturally high octane). I asked if my car likely had a similar system and he said that they are engineering things like this into most newer model vehicles (flexfuel or not). - yes I know this was a GM engineer talking about a Ford, that's why he used the word likely.

 

[robertcope]

Originally Posted By: Solarent

Well for one these stations are Top Tier Fuels - which means all their gasoline needs to have Top Tier Level regardless of the Octane level. They don't make claims saying there is extra cleanliness if I buy an octane level too high for my car.


That is not even close to correct. Have you actually done any research at all? For example, from Shell's FAQ:

"What makes Shell V-Power NiTRO+ Premium Gasoline different than other Shell grades? Shell V-Power NiTRO+ contains the highest concentration of the Shell Nitrogen Enriched Cleaning System and cleans up faster than Shell regular."

Exxon is similar, too: "Our premium grade unleaded gasoline was formulated with a higher octane level and additional detergent additives to meet the demands of some of today’s most advanced engines. It generally has an octane level of 93 but is blended with an octane level of 91 or 92 in certain areas of the U.S."

I haven't researched others because I don't use them.

robert

 

[TiredTrucker]

I guess I might, if it was only 10 cents a gallon difference. But that is not realistic in any area I have been, and I travel thru many states weekly. The cost spread doesn't make using premium worth it to me. And to that end, I would never own a vehicle that required premium. I suppose in some instances the higher octane stuff might deliver a little better butt dyno performance, but I long since outgrew the need to race from traffic light to traffic light. And I could really care less who passes me. I figure, if I need the additional performance, it is always better to buy something with an engine that will deliver what I need instead of trying to make a poor choice engine be more than it was made for.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Solarent
So what if someone used that 3rd button and came out with a Real Premium fuel - with strong cleaners (so I don't have to use a bottled additive) some added wear protection and friction modifiers with proven fuel economy benefits - would you buy it? would you pay the $0.10/gallon difference?

Isn't that how V-Power NiTRO+ and Synergy are marketed already, except that $0.10/gallon difference, which would be a screaming deal in Canada?

Personally, that's what I do. The G37 calls for premium, so it tends to get a Top Tier premium, with me usually getting the Shell. My G37 seems to dislike Petro-Canada premium in the winter, despite it being a Top Tier fuel, but that's the only vehicle I've ever had that experience with.

I run some Red Line SI-1 once in a while, but I should hope that the V-Power NiTRO+ does just fine on its own. Of course, I could be totally wrong and either should run a fuel system cleaner on occasion, or buy the cheapest premium I can possibly find.

I have noticed that, at least in Canada, Shell and Esso are fairly vigorously marketing their fuel as having those attributes you mention, whereas other retailers are not. The Co-ops do trumpet the fact that they're Top Tier now, and are the only brand I've ever seen do that.

 

[robertcope]

Originally Posted By: Garak

I run some Red Line SI-1 once in a while, but I should hope that the V-Power NiTRO+ does just fine on its own. Of course, I could be totally wrong and either should run a fuel system cleaner on occasion, or buy the cheapest premium I can possibly find.


This is what I do, as well: steady diet of V-Power NiTRO+ and SI-1 once a year or so, if I remember to do it. My motors have always been very clean when inspected, which I attribute to good fuel, good oil, and regular Italian tuneups.

robert

 

[Garak]

Shell here does charge a slight premium over the competitors' premiums. Esso didn't, but I'm not sure if that still holds true with the Synergy rollout. I do the SI-1 once or twice a year, give or take.