The media isn't covering this. I'm just wondering if U.S. refineries have switched over yet or if this has been put on hold?
It's almost 2017, is 10 PPM sulfur gas here yet?
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Big Oil is going to love Trump. My money says your low sulphur stuff is destined to wait until the next, next President Elect.
Isn't 10ppm for Diesel fuel? Gasoline is like 50-100ppm?
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Originally Posted By: Ohle_Manezzini
Isn't 10ppm for Diesel fuel? Gasoline is like 50-100ppm?
The maximum sulfur content in gasoline is supposed to be 10 PPM starting 2017 according to the EPA:
https://www.epa.gov/gasoline-standards/gasoline-sulfur
Isn't 10ppm for Diesel fuel? Gasoline is like 50-100ppm?
The maximum sulfur content in gasoline is supposed to be 10 PPM starting 2017 according to the EPA:
https://www.epa.gov/gasoline-standards/gasoline-sulfur
Originally Posted By: skyactiv
Originally Posted By: Ohle_Manezzini
Isn't 10ppm for Diesel fuel? Gasoline is like 50-100ppm?
The maximum sulfur content in gasoline is supposed to be 10 PPM starting 2017 according to the EPA:
https://www.epa.gov/gasoline-standards/gasoline-sulfur
I ALWAYS believe what the gov'mint tells me. Especially a guy named Gruber.
Originally Posted By: Ohle_Manezzini
Isn't 10ppm for Diesel fuel? Gasoline is like 50-100ppm?
The maximum sulfur content in gasoline is supposed to be 10 PPM starting 2017 according to the EPA:
https://www.epa.gov/gasoline-standards/gasoline-sulfur
I ALWAYS believe what the gov'mint tells me. Especially a guy named Gruber.
The answer is yes. Sort of. Well, its complicated.
As of Jan 1, 2017, gasoline is supposed to be 10 ppm sulfur on average in the US.
Where it gets complicated is refiners are allowed to use credits (from meeting the goals earlier than required or exceeding the goal) to produce gasoline with up to 80 ppm sulfur. Small refiners may be allowed until 2020 to comply with the regulation (small being less than 155,000 barrels per day (bpd) over all facilities or less than 75,000 bpd for one refinery).
Then there are all sorts of qualifiers on that.
So if the question is are we getting 10 ppm or less sulfur fuel as of today? Maybe close to it on average, but your results may vary widely up to 80 ppm.
I believe California is all 10 ppm already. Many major refineries incorporated this change early to generate credits for sale or for their own use in other facilities.
As of Jan 1, 2017, gasoline is supposed to be 10 ppm sulfur on average in the US.
Where it gets complicated is refiners are allowed to use credits (from meeting the goals earlier than required or exceeding the goal) to produce gasoline with up to 80 ppm sulfur. Small refiners may be allowed until 2020 to comply with the regulation (small being less than 155,000 barrels per day (bpd) over all facilities or less than 75,000 bpd for one refinery).
Then there are all sorts of qualifiers on that.
So if the question is are we getting 10 ppm or less sulfur fuel as of today? Maybe close to it on average, but your results may vary widely up to 80 ppm.
I believe California is all 10 ppm already. Many major refineries incorporated this change early to generate credits for sale or for their own use in other facilities.
What are the pros and cons of higher/lower sulfur content of gasoline?
Originally Posted By: Brybo86
What are the pros and cons of higher/lower sulfur content of gasoline?
Less sulfur oxides out the tailpipe, longer oil life to less acid/higher TBN. Not sure if there's any benefit to higher (other than lower price)?
What are the pros and cons of higher/lower sulfur content of gasoline?
Less sulfur oxides out the tailpipe, longer oil life to less acid/higher TBN. Not sure if there's any benefit to higher (other than lower price)?
And I haven't seen any real evidence that it really makes any difference outside of the lab. I have seen engines go 1.4 million miles on 500ppm diesel, getting 30,000 mile oil changes, on oil that was 2 API classes ago, and they still ran great. I haven't seen any appreciable evidence that 15ppm diesel and CJ-4 oil has improved on that much, if at all.
True, it does reduce tailpipe sulfer issues, but that is about it. For gasoline, I am not convinced it will be any different than diesel experience.
True, it does reduce tailpipe sulfer issues, but that is about it. For gasoline, I am not convinced it will be any different than diesel experience.
Low sulfur fuel allows for the use of catalysts that would otherwise be fouled by the sulfur content. This is why GDI cars in the US have not been using the traditional Euro-GDI lean-burn arrangement. High sulfur US fuel would have destroyed the cats they use to combat the high Nox that comes along with it.
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Originally Posted By: KGMtech
Big Oil is going to love Trump. My money says your low sulphur stuff is destined to wait until the next, next President Elect.
Keep politics out of this. Anyone with the slightest idea about chemical processes shoukd realize that the capital investment, integration, etc takes a long time.
Because theres far less risk for this and legacy equipment, compared to diesels, its just not inportant. This one really is better for all.
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Low sulfur fuel allows for the use of catalysts that would otherwise be fouled by the sulfur content. This is why GDI cars in the US have not been using the traditional Euro-GDI lean-burn arrangement. High sulfur US fuel would have destroyed the cats they use to combat the high Nox that comes along with it.
Exactly!
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
And I haven't seen any real evidence that it really makes any difference outside of the lab. I have seen engines go 1.4 million miles on 500ppm diesel, getting 30,000 mile oil changes, on oil that was 2 API classes ago, and they still ran great. I haven't seen any appreciable evidence that 15ppm diesel and CJ-4 oil has improved on that much, if at all.
True, it does reduce tailpipe sulfer issues, but that is about it. For gasoline, I am not convinced it will be any different than diesel experience.
You wouldnt. TBN and OCI was set to account for high sulfur. Go to ULSD, you loose some of the lubricity elements (which there are additives to fix that), but also got rid of a lot of the soot precursors that cause wear.
Lower sulfur is a win all around for ga$$ers, and still decent for diesels as lomg as lubricity is maintained.
Big Oil is going to love Trump. My money says your low sulphur stuff is destined to wait until the next, next President Elect.
Keep politics out of this. Anyone with the slightest idea about chemical processes shoukd realize that the capital investment, integration, etc takes a long time.
Because theres far less risk for this and legacy equipment, compared to diesels, its just not inportant. This one really is better for all.
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Low sulfur fuel allows for the use of catalysts that would otherwise be fouled by the sulfur content. This is why GDI cars in the US have not been using the traditional Euro-GDI lean-burn arrangement. High sulfur US fuel would have destroyed the cats they use to combat the high Nox that comes along with it.
Exactly!
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
And I haven't seen any real evidence that it really makes any difference outside of the lab. I have seen engines go 1.4 million miles on 500ppm diesel, getting 30,000 mile oil changes, on oil that was 2 API classes ago, and they still ran great. I haven't seen any appreciable evidence that 15ppm diesel and CJ-4 oil has improved on that much, if at all.
True, it does reduce tailpipe sulfer issues, but that is about it. For gasoline, I am not convinced it will be any different than diesel experience.
You wouldnt. TBN and OCI was set to account for high sulfur. Go to ULSD, you loose some of the lubricity elements (which there are additives to fix that), but also got rid of a lot of the soot precursors that cause wear.
Lower sulfur is a win all around for ga$$ers, and still decent for diesels as lomg as lubricity is maintained.
Does this mean automakers will wait until 2020 to offer lean burn GDI in the USA?
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