Could this be after effects of Ceratec?

[kschachn]

Which it would without any of those additives, using the proper oil changed at the recommended interval.

Originally Posted By: UltrafanUK
If you use oil additives made by Liqui Moly, Castrol or Amsoil AND read the instructions, there are no real risks, other than the engine lasting longer than you desire.

 

[NycDito]

Originally Posted By: UltrafanUK
You can get a small amount of Mayo around the oil filler cap or dipstick, particularly when it's damp. The grey stuff looks like Moly from the previous run.

I use LM additives and talk to their R&D folks, which is why I only use half a can of anything except their flush or fuel additives. Ceratec is a better additive than MoS2 and it contains both Moly and Boron Nitride in a hexagonal form. It is coffee coloured when added, which can cause some confusion AND needs to be used every OCI, as the "Lasts 50K km part" assumes you do not change the oil (My Twingo survived a 50K km OCI).


The temps here have been a little up and down these past few days, maybe thats the issue...

Interesting, i have heard about using Ceratec every oil change but i was not planning to. I knew about Mos2 and Ceratec colors before hand, so that wasnt a surprise for me.

 

[NycDito]

Originally Posted By: UltrafanUK
If you use oil additives made by Liqui Moly, Castrol or Amsoil AND read the instructions, there are no real risks, other than the engine lasting longer than you desire.


I have been using their products for a while now as well but have never used their engine flush. We ran it on idle for 10 minutes and then drained it out etc etc. The Ceratec was added within a mile of oil change.

I just recently tried their Intake Purge and i have to admit it made a DIFFERENCE that was noticeable.

That's why i originally asked about the after effects of Ceratec. None of the cars ive owned before had a sort of baffle plate like this current BMW, so i wouldn't be able to see any residue laying around the valve cover.

 

[UltrafanUK]

You might not need the oil flush additives if you do short OCI's popular in the US AND not need fuel additives if you use mostly major brand fuel stations that keeps the injectors gum free, BUT once an old block starts to wear it will often last far longer if you use Ceratec in particular.
Try reading the PDS, as their additives will do exactly what they say if you follow the instructions. If you use a major brand FS oil that has both Mo and Boron, just use half a can, but if you use something real cheap, use a full can.

 

[NycDito]

Originally Posted By: UltrafanUK
You might not need the oil flush additives if you do short OCI's popular in the US AND not need fuel additives if you use mostly major brand fuel stations that keeps the injectors gum free, BUT once an old block starts to wear it will often last far longer if you use Ceratec in particular.
Try reading the PDS, as their additives will do exactly what they say if you follow the instructions. If you use a major brand FS oil that has both Mo and Boron, just use half a can, but if you use something real cheap, use a full can.


I wanted to try the engine flush because i have a few clients who swear by it. And matter of fact, the butt dyno had my car feeling "better". But i gave credit to the change from 5w40 to 5w30, not the flush. Anyway, i use 93 octane and go between Shell, BP and Sunoco. Mainly BP. I do use LM's Intake Valve Kleen additive every tankful or at least a few tanks and then i stop for a few tanks.

Well, if i can't get to the bottom of this, i might just either pull the valve cover in a few weeks, or just swap the fluid again

...

I emailed Lubro Moly earlier today, no response as of yet.

 

[NycDito]

So i went to check the residue and it is in fact some sort of very fine substance, oily. Feels different than motor oil. Then i decided to rub my finger under the actual cover in the oil filler hole area. Under the cover near the hole (not visible).. and below is what i see. Maybe there's a crank case ventilation issue? I might just have to overhaul the CCV and replace valve cover to keep peace of mind.....Greeeat

This reminded me of rust..kind of gritty..


and here is where i rubbed the white residue...


Maybe there was an underlying issue with previous owner, or it developed under my ownership. Or maybe its normal and im being too picky. Maybe over time, it'll clean up.

 

[1JZ_E46]

It's not going to hurt anything. It very well could be ceramic being caught in the rough surface of the varnish build-up (of which BMWs are notorious for). If you want to get rid of the varnish, use an oil additive like MMO or Gumout multi-system tune-up coupled with a short OCI and good cleaning oil (Mobil 1 or Pennzoil platinum/ultra). It will take a while.

 

[NycDito]

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
It's not going to hurt anything. It very well could be ceramic being caught in the rough surface of the varnish build-up (of which BMWs are notorious for). If you want to get rid of the varnish, use an oil additive like MMO or Gumout multi-system tune-up coupled with a short OCI and good cleaning oil (Mobil 1 or Pennzoil platinum/ultra). It will take a while.


Thanks. Would MMO be ok to add even with the Ceratec inside right now? i would think so, but im not sure.

 

[1JZ_E46]

Originally Posted By: NycDito
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
It's not going to hurt anything. It very well could be ceramic being caught in the rough surface of the varnish build-up (of which BMWs are notorious for). If you want to get rid of the varnish, use an oil additive like MMO or Gumout multi-system tune-up coupled with a short OCI and good cleaning oil (Mobil 1 or Pennzoil platinum/ultra). It will take a while.


Thanks. Would MMO be ok to add even with the Ceratec inside right now? i would think so, but im not sure.


I'm sure it would be OK. I would lead towards Gumout though. MMO is sort of "old-tech". The gumout has PEA which is a highly effective cleaner. I used MMO for 4-5 oil changes in my M54 engine. It helped a bit, but not as I had hoped.

 

[UltrafanUK]

Lubro Moly is now called Liqui Moly (It was the US company). LM R&D will respond if you use their German web site enquiries address. www.liqui-moly.de (English tab in top left corner).
No one has ever said Ceratec can cause an issue apart from a very minor degree of spark plug fouling IF the engine is a bad oil burner.

 

[UltrafanUK]

MMO is one additive I would never add to any oil, unless you want to thin it out and conduct some kind of chemistry experiment. Using 2 additives in addition to an oil is not something even the Germans check for in adverse reaction terms.

If you are convinced you have a sludge/varnish issue, just use their Proline flush additive for 10 mins just before an oil & filter change. If you have any oil leaks they might get slightly worse for a while (False oil seal effect), so it's often best to just use a series of short OCI's with a good cleaner oil like M1 0w40.

 

[1JZ_E46]

Originally Posted By: UltrafanUK
MMO is one additive I would never add to any oil, unless you want to thin it out and conduct some kind of chemistry experiment. Using 2 additives in addition to an oil is not something even the Germans check for in adverse reaction terms.

If you are convinced you have a sludge/varnish issue, just use their Proline flush additive for 10 mins just before an oil & filter change. If you have any oil leaks they might get slightly worse for a while (False oil seal effect), so it's often best to just use a series of short OCI's with a good cleaner oil like M1 0w40.


Agreed. Varnish is harmless. Sludge not so much.

My desire to clean-up the varnish was more OCD in nature haha.

 

[NycDito]

Originally Posted By: UltrafanUK
Lubro Moly is now called Liqui Moly (It was the US company). LM R&D will respond if you use their German web site enquiries address. www.liqui-moly.de (English tab in top left corner).
No one has ever said Ceratec can cause an issue apart from a very minor degree of spark plug fouling IF the engine is a bad oil burner.


I use both names interchangeably because i just always have. Where i work we supply their products so i have always been a user, even sometimes a skeptical one. But yes, Liqui Moly is the US name for Lubro Moly.

I did email them direct, not their local contacts. I went straight to the motherland =)

And yea, i have used Ceratec and saw the feedback here on BITOG and didn't see anything really negative about the product.

I just was kind of worried that something may have happened. I think im going to add MMO into the mix, and just change again a little later. And stick to LM 5w30 LL01. Unless its suggested otherwise. I just dont like the idea of having so many chemicals in the crank case.

** i just read the comment after suggesting NOT to add MMO***

Thanks everyone for their help and suggestions, really appreciate the info ive gotten here over the years.

 

[NycDito]

Originally Posted By: UltrafanUK
MMO is one additive I would never add to any oil, unless you want to thin it out and conduct some kind of chemistry experiment. Using 2 additives in addition to an oil is not something even the Germans check for in adverse reaction terms.

If you are convinced you have a sludge/varnish issue, just use their Proline flush additive for 10 mins just before an oil & filter change. If you have any oil leaks they might get slightly worse for a while (False oil seal effect), so it's often best to just use a series of short OCI's with a good cleaner oil like M1 0w40.


Thanks again. I used their pro line flush this time around. I will do it again (in another 1000 miles?) and just add the oil, no Ceratec. And i would assume, slowly the varnish will go away.

 

[SR5]

I suspect the flush wasn't fully removed and it's precipitating out, maybe even reacting with something.

Doing analytical chemistry for a living (inorganic) I wish I had a bit here to analyze for you.

But the way forward is obvious for me: Change Your Oil, use a good synthetic BMW LL-01 oil, and Stop using Flushes and Additives.

You say the engine is running well, so good quality fresh oil is all it needs.

 

[SR5]

Originally Posted By: NycDito
So i went to check the residue and it is in fact some sort of very fine substance, oily. Feels different than motor oil. Then i decided to rub my finger under the actual cover in the oil filler hole area. Under the cover near the hole (not visible).. and below is what i see. Maybe there's a crank case ventilation issue? I might just have to overhaul the CCV and replace valve cover to keep peace of mind.....Greeeat

This reminded me of rust..kind of gritty..


and here is where i rubbed the white residue...


Maybe there was an underlying issue with previous owner, or it developed under my ownership. Or maybe its normal and im being too picky. Maybe over time, it'll clean up.


Was the white residue gritty ??

Looking at these pictures again, I suspect your car has some light varnish that the flush has started to gently move.

The shiny white stuff may not be an inorganic precipitation like I first thought. It may be a shiny clearish surface on the oil / varnish that acts like a mirror and appears white. I've seen this before (in chemistry, not an engine).

You are also using regular fuel additives, this can also find it's way into the oil. So you now have a mix of oil flush, oil additives and fuel additives all mixed up.

My advice: stop spending money on all these extras. Just run it on good oil and good fuel for a bit and see how it goes. Like they say, a few short OCI is a gentle way to clean up an engine.

 

[LeakySeals]

^^agree you don't want a cleanup so fast there are gritty chunks floating around. you want slow emulsification so nothing clogs or gets stuck anywhere.. like the sump..

 

[KenO]

Step up to a 5w-40. The 5W-30 is LL-01, but you'd be better served by a 5W-40 and extending your oil change intervals. Honestly you're probably doing more harm than good changing the oil so often. Engine oils wear vs mileage is typically a parabola.


Not to mention that a little varnish isn't going to hurt anything. It's not going to effect any surface that needs lubricated protection.

 

[NycDito]

MODS , sorry for posting in wrong section

But to update from Liqui Moly (Lubro Moly). Here is their answer to my email asking them about that substance. They received the same picture i posted here.

*

thank you very much for contacting us and your interest in our LIQUI MOLY products.

As far as I can identify this from the given picture this deposits are on top of a "splash protection" which is placed on top of the camshaft. The whitish coloring may come from the ceramic particles in the Cera Tec but it´s not 100% clear to say just by looking at the picture.

Our Engine Flush is designed to apply when the engine is idling only to soften deposits and to keep them in solution. It further thins the used oil strongly to make sure that as much as possible of the used oil is getting drained out of the engine. Because of the low oil pressure at idling the oil / Engine Flush can not reach this point ( which is shown in your picture ) of the engine. But this is not too bad becausae disturbing deposits in the oil circle are at the bearings, piston rings, oil sump, .... - and all this important areas get reached by the oil under idling.


We hope we could help you with our informations. Should you have further questions regarding our products we would be very pleased to get contacted from you again.

Best regards

i. A. Steffen Niemietz
*

So im a little better at ease. I checked the dipstick this morning and its exactly as expected with Cera Tec or Mos2. I am not going to worry any longer and just drive. Next service, when due, will be just oil no additives and no flush again. At least not yet.

You have ALL bee very helpful and thank you all for your comments and suggestions.

Thanks a ton, this site is awesome

 

[NycDito]

Originally Posted By: KenO
Step up to a 5w-40. The 5W-30 is LL-01, but you'd be better served by a 5W-40 and extending your oil change intervals. Honestly you're probably doing more harm than good changing the oil so often. Engine oils wear vs mileage is typically a parabola.


Not to mention that a little varnish isn't going to hurt anything. It's not going to effect any surface that needs lubricated protection.


I was on 5w40 LL01 by LM before switching to 5w30 with this service. And yea, im realizing varnish is nothing to worry about