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Seems CVX indicated jury still out on calc ... perhaps M1 already cast a silent vote different from yours ...
Best cleaning oils have high calcium?
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SonoJoe: a bit off topic - but on marine lubes like Mobilgard or Castrol MHP - how are they getting the really high TBN ?
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
+1
Here's are a couple of little data points that anyone can find on this board using the search tool.
We have a member here who owns an engine shop in Dayton, OH.
He has stated that of the engines his shop tears into the ones run on Valvoline oils are typically very clean.
I can tell you personally that Valvoline Maxlife 10W-40 worked very well in my old BMW, although the Maxlife formulation of that time did contain moly. I can back this up with a UOA, which I posted in August 2012 in case anyone wants to view it.
There may be reasons beyond cost that have Valvoline continuing with their sodium add pack. It may offer advantages not obvious to us.
Any oil formulation involves trade-offs. It's not all good in all ways.
Thank you fdcg27; I want and try to stay out of oil brand name wars, as stated above I do many tear downs here, not due to wear-outs, but other reasons, (overheated, wrecks,engine swaps with performance upgrades, etc.) over the past years (50 plus) i have noticed the high mile engines that seem very clean in every area, (i try to find out what oil the owner had been using) and the crankshaft mikes out at non detectable wear and can be reused at std-std,with minimal bore wear, have been on a oil with sodium add pack. This is not a made up post, its fact. Dont discount sodium as just a filler.
+1
Here's are a couple of little data points that anyone can find on this board using the search tool.
We have a member here who owns an engine shop in Dayton, OH.
He has stated that of the engines his shop tears into the ones run on Valvoline oils are typically very clean.
I can tell you personally that Valvoline Maxlife 10W-40 worked very well in my old BMW, although the Maxlife formulation of that time did contain moly. I can back this up with a UOA, which I posted in August 2012 in case anyone wants to view it.
There may be reasons beyond cost that have Valvoline continuing with their sodium add pack. It may offer advantages not obvious to us.
Any oil formulation involves trade-offs. It's not all good in all ways.
Thank you fdcg27; I want and try to stay out of oil brand name wars, as stated above I do many tear downs here, not due to wear-outs, but other reasons, (overheated, wrecks,engine swaps with performance upgrades, etc.) over the past years (50 plus) i have noticed the high mile engines that seem very clean in every area, (i try to find out what oil the owner had been using) and the crankshaft mikes out at non detectable wear and can be reused at std-std,with minimal bore wear, have been on a oil with sodium add pack. This is not a made up post, its fact. Dont discount sodium as just a filler.
Right on !!
Originally Posted By: 4WD
SonoJoe: a bit off topic - but on marine lubes like Mobilgard or Castrol MHP - how are they getting the really high TBN ?
You're right. Marine lubes can have a very high TBN. They get this simply by using high treat rates of metallic detergents. This is done because marine fuels can contain very high levels of native sulphur. This results in exhaust gas that contains a high level of SOx which can combine with H2O also in the exhaust to form corrosive sulphurous acids. The function of the metallic detergent is simply to neutralise this acid before it damages the engine.
The gasoline and diesel you and I buy at the filling station is to all intents and purposes sulphur-free so this isn't a problem we face.
SonoJoe: a bit off topic - but on marine lubes like Mobilgard or Castrol MHP - how are they getting the really high TBN ?
You're right. Marine lubes can have a very high TBN. They get this simply by using high treat rates of metallic detergents. This is done because marine fuels can contain very high levels of native sulphur. This results in exhaust gas that contains a high level of SOx which can combine with H2O also in the exhaust to form corrosive sulphurous acids. The function of the metallic detergent is simply to neutralise this acid before it damages the engine.
The gasoline and diesel you and I buy at the filling station is to all intents and purposes sulphur-free so this isn't a problem we face.
Originally Posted By: ShotGun429
Thank you fdcg27; I want and try to stay out of oil brand name wars, as stated above I do many tear downs here, not due to wear-outs, but other reasons, (overheated, wrecks,engine swaps with performance upgrades, etc.) over the past years (50 plus) i have noticed the high mile engines that seem very clean in every area, (i try to find out what oil the owner had been using) and the crankshaft mikes out at non detectable wear and can be reused at std-std,with minimal bore wear, have been on a oil with sodium add pack. This is not a made up post, its fact. Dont discount sodium as just a filler.
Thank you for your sharing ..
Engineering products are all about trade-offs ...... or optimisation AND cost effectiveness, among others.
Thank you fdcg27; I want and try to stay out of oil brand name wars, as stated above I do many tear downs here, not due to wear-outs, but other reasons, (overheated, wrecks,engine swaps with performance upgrades, etc.) over the past years (50 plus) i have noticed the high mile engines that seem very clean in every area, (i try to find out what oil the owner had been using) and the crankshaft mikes out at non detectable wear and can be reused at std-std,with minimal bore wear, have been on a oil with sodium add pack. This is not a made up post, its fact. Dont discount sodium as just a filler.
Thank you for your sharing ..
Engineering products are all about trade-offs ...... or optimisation AND cost effectiveness, among others.
Originally Posted By: 4WD
SonoJoe: a bit off topic - but on marine lubes like Mobilgard or Castrol MHP - how are they getting the really high TBN ?
Mobilgard is a name that covers their whole range of marine products.
Castrol MHP is 'only' 15 TBN; equivalent would be Mobilgard 12 Series - it will come almost exclusively from overbased detergents.
The same goes for the properly high TBN marine oils, like the crosshead cylinder oils (eg Castrol Cyltech 70, Mobilgard 570: typical TBN of 70). If you want to stick to 4-strokes then the medium speed trunk piston engine oils for running on high sulfur residual fuel are in the range 30-50 TBN, again from overbased detergents of various types (eg Mobilgard M30/M440/M50, Castrol TLX Plus range).
SonoJoe: a bit off topic - but on marine lubes like Mobilgard or Castrol MHP - how are they getting the really high TBN ?
Mobilgard is a name that covers their whole range of marine products.
Castrol MHP is 'only' 15 TBN; equivalent would be Mobilgard 12 Series - it will come almost exclusively from overbased detergents.
The same goes for the properly high TBN marine oils, like the crosshead cylinder oils (eg Castrol Cyltech 70, Mobilgard 570: typical TBN of 70). If you want to stick to 4-strokes then the medium speed trunk piston engine oils for running on high sulfur residual fuel are in the range 30-50 TBN, again from overbased detergents of various types (eg Mobilgard M30/M440/M50, Castrol TLX Plus range).
4WD
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SoJ/Weasley - much appreciated ... fuel we buy does vary greatly - sometimes whatever you can get - or forced to use - to actually running low PPM road fuels in the large engines ...
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Originally Posted By: ShotGun429
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
+1
Here's are a couple of little data points that anyone can find on this board using the search tool.
We have a member here who owns an engine shop in Dayton, OH.
He has stated that of the engines his shop tears into the ones run on Valvoline oils are typically very clean.
I can tell you personally that Valvoline Maxlife 10W-40 worked very well in my old BMW, although the Maxlife formulation of that time did contain moly. I can back this up with a UOA, which I posted in August 2012 in case anyone wants to view it.
There may be reasons beyond cost that have Valvoline continuing with their sodium add pack. It may offer advantages not obvious to us.
Any oil formulation involves trade-offs. It's not all good in all ways.
Thank you fdcg27; I want and try to stay out of oil brand name wars, as stated above I do many tear downs here, not due to wear-outs, but other reasons, (overheated, wrecks,engine swaps with performance upgrades, etc.) over the past years (50 plus) i have noticed the high mile engines that seem very clean in every area, (i try to find out what oil the owner had been using) and the crankshaft mikes out at non detectable wear and can be reused at std-std,with minimal bore wear, have been on a oil with sodium add pack. This is not a made up post, its fact. Dont discount sodium as just a filler.
Which oils these days are using a high sodium add pack?
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
+1
Here's are a couple of little data points that anyone can find on this board using the search tool.
We have a member here who owns an engine shop in Dayton, OH.
He has stated that of the engines his shop tears into the ones run on Valvoline oils are typically very clean.
I can tell you personally that Valvoline Maxlife 10W-40 worked very well in my old BMW, although the Maxlife formulation of that time did contain moly. I can back this up with a UOA, which I posted in August 2012 in case anyone wants to view it.
There may be reasons beyond cost that have Valvoline continuing with their sodium add pack. It may offer advantages not obvious to us.
Any oil formulation involves trade-offs. It's not all good in all ways.
Thank you fdcg27; I want and try to stay out of oil brand name wars, as stated above I do many tear downs here, not due to wear-outs, but other reasons, (overheated, wrecks,engine swaps with performance upgrades, etc.) over the past years (50 plus) i have noticed the high mile engines that seem very clean in every area, (i try to find out what oil the owner had been using) and the crankshaft mikes out at non detectable wear and can be reused at std-std,with minimal bore wear, have been on a oil with sodium add pack. This is not a made up post, its fact. Dont discount sodium as just a filler.
Which oils these days are using a high sodium add pack?
I do my cleaning with Z-Max.
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