VW/Audi Have Highest Engine Failure Rates

[nthach]

Originally Posted By: barryh
Of course they could but not when they are forced into increased complexity and compromises in order to hit performance, mileage and emissions targets. It's things like direct injection and low friction single row timing chains that are causing them problems.

Cost cutting too - VW is an even more ruthless cost cutter than GM/Ford/Chrysler combined, but VW doesn't insult the end user with cheap interiors(granted GM's come a long way, but there's still some cheap plastickyness in 2016). The Germans do things for technology's sake, while the Japanese will usually wait it out until things are proven - mostly. I know a few hardcore VW heads, and their products from the 1980s just seemed atrocious. Someone said VW cost-cuts in their "mainstream" brands(VW/Audi/Seat/Skoda) to finance Bentley/Bugatti/Lambo. Toyota's been cost-cutting more as well, I suspect Toyota's stake in Uber has something to do with this - but Toyota themselves are focusing on Lexus first, everything else second.

DI isn't a bad thing - Toyota's D4-S system is much more complex than what Bosch or Continental supplies to the Germans and Americans, but it works quite well and you don't hear much about Toyota/Lexus valve gunk around here. Heck, even GM grafted DI onto their pushrod V8s, with their design roots from the 50s.

 

[4WD]

Really ? That VW rental I had the other day did not have an attractive interior - I kept looking at it wondering what all the fuss is about- drove nice but too many airbag and e-steering warning lights on all over the dash too ...

 

[RooflessVW]

Originally Posted By: 4WD
Really ? That VW rental I had the other day did not have an attractive interior - I kept looking at it wondering what all the fuss is about- drove nice but too many airbag and e-steering warning lights on all over the dash too ...


Again, that is a minor software error that is corrected by a voluntary recall/software update.

The interiors on the rental spec is nothing to write home about. It gets much better with higher trim levels.

 

[ls1mike]

Originally Posted By: 4WD
Really ? That VW rental I had the other day did not have an attractive interior - I kept looking at it wondering what all the fuss is about-


So we had a top of the line fully loaded 02 Jetta TDI. That interior sucked. The plastic had some coating on it that wore off, it was gray on top and black underneath. It always looked like chipping paint.
My 01 GTP had a better interior that held up longer...
Plus the driving dynamics I always hear about have got to be from people who have driven nothing but a VW.
Perception is an odd thing.

 

[nthach]

Originally Posted By: rooflessVW


The interiors on the rental spec is nothing to write home about. It gets much better with higher trim levels.

GM's gotten into hot water with that as well - they built "rental" versions of the Malibu and Impala without side or curtain airbags for Enterprise, National and Avis and those cars ended up on the used car market and were advertised to have side/curtain airbags but they didn't. Toyota does sell to Hertz decontented Camrys without their infotainment system.

VW did advertise a "special edition" Jetta as a loss leader to lure buyers from Honda/Toyota/Hyundai in these neck of the woods, basic interior, basic radio, steel wheels but it does get the 2.0L FSI engine instead of the 2.5L I5. Not sure if they're still doing that.

 

[4WD]

I rent cars all the time - for decades I have - so are they not rental spec - apples to apples. ?

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: supton
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: supton
Originally Posted By: edyvw
However, driving it from house to grocery store? yeah I can see that.


Which is how most of them will be used. Mundane drives.

Drive what you like, but the Camry hate here is ridiculous. Show me a road in New England where going past 3/10's is "appropriate" in a German car--or past 4/10's in a Camry for the matter.

Appropriate? Dude 90% of Toyota drivers drive 10 below speed limit in left lane and do not care what is appropriate.
It is car for grocery store since going for 2hr trip might get you to sleep or in physical pain like me.
Like great philosopher of our time, Jeremy Clarkson said: if car does not excite you every time you sit in it, you might as well take public transportation.


?

Must be the high altitude, that is not what I see where I live.

I've sat in my 2011 Camry for up to 14 hours at a stretch. I don't like the seats but I was fine afterward. Done 11 hours in my Tundra. Both are base models so the seats kinda suck. Both were fine for long distance drives so they can't be that bad.

I had a car that I liked, that "excited" me. A turbo-diesel VW, manual transmission, wagon. Loved that car. Guess what? It wore out. Perhaps I could have taken better care of it, kept the rust at bay better; but in the end, it still would have been dinged up, rusted, and in need of many parts. Or I could have ignored the repairs (which I started doing towards the end), at which point... what is the point of having a fancy car? It's just going to wear out.

When I have disposable money again I'll have something exciting. Until then I prefer to spend my money elsewhere.

And I'm starting to think you're just baiting me, and I'm too dumb to not respond...

I did 20hrs in Yugo. It can be done, no one is saying that.
VW diesel? My brother has fleet of them and no issues. I had them personally, and never had any major issue.
And in the end of the day, all this Toyota and Honda reliability? Sludge issues in Camry, calliper issues in 4runners, V8 timing issues (am not going to talk about abysmal brakes).
My parents in law have 2009 Honda Pilot, with 60K. Front differential, VCM, three sets of brakes (because they warp, top quality I guess), MPG of MIG-21 (and that is only FWD). And still they think that all that is normal for any car, because they drive Honda.

 

[Shannow]

https://www.warrantydirect.co.uk/

The article isn't about failures during warranty, it's about statistics garnered by the above company...which isn't really a warranty, it's an insurance product bought post OEM warranty.

Which makes the OP's thread title a tad misleading (might one say "cherrypicked")

In line with the insurance company (i.e. "warranty policies") providing the statistic of "engine failure" to the media, without describing anything WRT failure mode...Seriously, 1:10 Audies exhibit "engine failure"...seriously Nickedfresh ?

How did Lexus score a worse ranking than Toyota ???

Sample size, consumer discretion, Lexus are on the race to the bottom ?

edit..I should add, is the data peer reviewed ???

That's pertinent when discrediting sources.

 

[nthach]

More tech toys - Lexus uses a different HMI interface for their infotainment vs. Toyota still using touchscreens - as a matter of fact luxury cars tend to use knob/touchpad based HMI, "common" brands still use touchscreens.

Lexus just isn't what it was anymore.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: nthach

What that has to do with engine failure?
Shannon is right, and I can see actually issue with Lexus since they used that 2.2 D4-D engine (D-CAT) that was poster child of how NOT to build diesel engine. But then we need more info. It is misleading at best.

 

[nthach]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: nthach

Consumer Reports dinged Lexus - it was more with the interior fittings of the cars than the powertrain, a few years ago it was due to bad traction control system firmware. Now that you mention it, Toyota did have a supply agreement in place with BMW - and some models in Europe did use the BMW diesel motor instead of the in-house built one. Toyota doesn't really consider diesel to be their top priority, even though there is a market for them in Asia, Australia and Europe.

 

[edyvw]

Toyota consider diesel to be extreme priority considering that bulk of their sale are trucks like Hilux etc. Toyota is trying desperately to get into Euro market more, but apparently Hyundai and Kia beat Toyota in that race.
Toyota has issue that I was saying for a long time. As soon as they have to keep up in sophistication of engines they are having problems. However, selling 3.5 V6 with technology on par with BMW's in the beginning of 1990's is their thing.
BMW is now supplying 2.0d engines (detuned of course) and will start supplying engines for new Supra.

 

[Nickdfresh]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
https://www.warrantydirect.co.uk/

The article isn't about failures during warranty, it's about statistics garnered by the above company...which isn't really a warranty, it's an insurance product bought post OEM warranty.

Which makes the OP's thread title a tad misleading (might one say "cherrypicked")


"Misleading", how? Please be specific old boy...

Quote:
In line with the insurance company (i.e. "warranty policies") providing the statistic of "engine failure" to the media, without describing anything WRT failure mode...Seriously, 1:10 Audies exhibit "engine failure"...seriously Nickedfresh ?


I didn't write the article, "seriously Shannow?"

If you have an issue with the data or captions take it up with the Telegraph!

Quote:
How did Lexus score a worse ranking than Toyota ???

Sample size, consumer discretion, Lexus are on the race to the bottom ?

edit..I should add, is the data peer reviewed ???

That's pertinent when discrediting sources.


I. Didn't. Write. The. Article.

Critical and reading comprehension is key here...

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
VW diesel? My brother has fleet of them and no issues. I had them personally, and never had any major issue.
And in the end of the day, all this Toyota and Honda reliability? Sludge issues in Camry, calliper issues in 4runners, V8 timing issues (am not going to talk about abysmal brakes).
My parents in law have 2009 Honda Pilot, with 60K. Front differential, VCM, three sets of brakes (because they warp, top quality I guess), MPG of MIG-21 (and that is only FWD). And still they think that all that is normal for any car, because they drive Honda.


I guess I don't understand you, then. I had more issues with my VW than my Toyotas--but then again, I drove the VW longer.

Whatever. You hate Toyota, and it's a free world for you to do so. I don't have a love for any vehicle--and I'm free to do so too.

 

[chrisri]

Supton, I'm far from VW fanboy (actually I dislike both the products and the brand), but in their defence, they do sell more advanced products, and thus, more complex. Reliability is one thing; for instance, a Russian Lada was fair reliable, but on other hand it was utter rubbish.
VW builds nice cars, their body quality, interior quality, better ride and overall feel have to count for something.

So, if I was African, by all means: Toyota all the way. But we are leaving in fairly normal countries (me not so much), and I hope we can afford something with at least bit of spirit.
Yesterday I've saw a. Russian with a Camry (a car not sold on a old continent). What an ugly, uninspiring peace of metal. I'd rather walk.

And yes, I drive a pos Opel. A freakin' GM have more into it than a Toy.

 

[veryHeavy]

I'd say Audi, VW, BMW's 1.9 to 2.2% engine breakdown (versus Honda's 0.3%) is significant.

That means German engines are 6 to 7 times more failure prone than Honda engines. (And about 3 times more failure prone than Toyota engines, et cetera.)

 

[KrisZ]

You hardly see any Honda or Toyota vehicles in Europe. It stands to reason that there will be less issues reported with them since there are so few of them.

I heard the same argument from various mechanics that they hardly ever saw a 90s Toyota or Honda in their shop. But nobody wants to mention that their market share in the 90s was quite small. Now, as their market share is big, we have plenty of indys specializing in Hondas or Toyotas, at least around Toronto area. So, it's either extremely profitable to perform oil changes on these things, or they do have expensive break downs.

 

[barryh]

Honda and Toyota cars are common enough in the UK where the survey data came from. The failure rate data produced by the warranty company takes into account the relative number of each make in the survey. The result is a % failure rate so it doesn't matter how common the car is provide the sample size is sufficiently large. The survey specifically excludes makes where the sample size is too small.

One real difference between Japanese and German cars in the UK is the driver profile with Japanese cars being more likely to be privately owned and taken more care of. Maybe that makes some difference but not enough to explain that the relative difference in failure rates is so large. Other factors might be that the German cars are much more likely to be complex diesels or turbo charged petrols.

Who knows how accurate the results are but there is a clear enough trend that on average a German engine is going to cost more in repairs than a Japanese one.

 

[Andrew1972]

Based upon friends experiences with Audi S5(transmission replacement as 112 miles) and BMW 5 series full engine replacement under 1000 miles not surprised. However once they replaced these items vehicles have been flawless in last 4 years ownership.

 

[Tom777]

Two major downfall of recent year euro engines: DI and timming chain tensioner. Pure DI engine are destine to fail due to carbon deposite on the intake valves which will require manual cleanning before it could get back on the road again. The timming chain tensioner seems like causing more trouble then belt since its not servicable which makes the catestrophic timing chain tensioner failure unpredictable. Another thing is that VW tries to put out more powers with small 4 cylinder engines but at the same time try to save cost. Rear main seal made with cheap materials, once pcv have any issue it most likely have leak problem and the repair bill is not pretty to replace the rms. Not to mention the gen 3 TSI on GTI (maybe GLI also?) starts using plastic oil pan I can already tell down the road lot of ppl will have a cracked oil pan.