Go high mileage or just thicker viscosity?

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I have been juggling with the idea of finally moving away from the 0W-20 recommendation for my 2007 Camry LE 2.4L daily driver. She has 86,000 miles on her and like all of the 2AZ-FE engines, she burns some oil. Not enough to qualify for the Toyota rebuild, but enough that I keep a spare jug of oil in the trunk and check every 1,000 miles.

I got the car with 60,000 miles on her two years ago with a Jiffy Lube sticker in the corner stating it had conventional in it. My guess is because it was a grandma car before I got it (nothing against conventional). I immediately dumped it and have put in PP 0W-20 every 4,000 to 6,000 miles since then (I like synthetic oils, I like PP's spiffy bottle and natural gas base stock, and I like consistency in my buying habits). After doing some research on the oil consumption issue with those engines (if I recall correctly, it is that the oil return holes in the piston rings are milled too small and get clogged up over time), I figured a low viscosity oil would be the best way to maintain flow and decrease consumption. It is difficult to tell if the consumption has increased at all in the last 25,000+ miles, but I don't think that it has.

Anyhoo, now the car is approaching 100,000 miles and I am thinking it might be time to step up to 5W-30, as I plan on keeping it for a while. I realize the 0W-20 standard is basically due to CAFE, but if moving up a viscosity grade is merely a band-aid for the consumption issue, I would prefer to wait until further down the road to apply it, if/when consumption truly becomes an issue. But, the car is technically "high-mileage" (a designation that I am skeptical is just arbitrary), so I am also considering that.

Any thoughts on this? Is 86,000k too old to be running 0W-20? Is the increase in viscosity just a band-aid for consumption issues? Is high mileage recommended once a certain age hits or is it to more intended to counter specific issues like leaky seals, etc., that are already occurring?
 
You can't really judge the condition of the block on mileage. Age, useage, fuel quality, lubes, filter and even the OCI all effect the condition of the old block.

So to answer the OP's Q, I would move up from the thin oil game to an Xw30 AND try a major brand high mileage oil, OR a real top of the range stop leak additive.

As the OP has done some reasearch on the oil burning game, I trust the crank case vent or valve system is working correctly.
 
Originally Posted By: UltrafanUK
You can't really judge the condition of the block on mileage. Age, useage, fuel quality, lubes, filter and even the OCI all effect the condition of the old block.

So to answer the OP's Q, I would move up from the thin oil game to an Xw30 AND try a major brand high mileage oil, OR a real top of the range stop leak additive.

As the OP has done some reasearch on the oil burning game, I trust the crank case vent or valve system is working correctly.


Thanks. The PCV valve is fine. I replaced it at about 75,000 just as a precautionary measure.
 
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OK, so plugged drain-back holes behind the piston rings are a hard one to treat, but I'd try. Pull the plugs and shoot a big'ish shot of Break-Free (carbon gun solvent) into each cylinder. Reinsert plugs at least a few threads, let sit overnight (over weekend is better). Pull plugs, spin motor a few RPM, reinstall plugs and fire it up. Drive around the block with at least one full throttle hit.

Drain oil and change it and filter. Add one 1/2 can of Kreen. Maybe go 0W-30 this time, but 0W-20 will work fine too. Drive it and see what happens? Problem may be over. May be diminished...

Use other 1/2 can of Kreen on next oil change, and maybe a few ounces per change from here on out for 4 or 5 changes. Problem solved if it can be done chemically...

And/or completely change chemistry of oil to get under the existing issues. Try Redline or Motul 300V which are both ester based oils and will clean off a lot of different deposits. Either might just fix it too.

My bet is on Kreen, but it's you call...
smile.gif
 
If u are able to, a piston soak should help. I've done it w mmo successfully. And I would try -w30 oil. You should be good to go, that car will last u to 300K miles or more
 
Originally Posted By: NibbanaBanana
In Maryland, 1 mile is too old to be running 0w-20. AK, maybe ok. 0w-20 : dinosaur wizz.


Too "old"?

Why is it that some posters think that repeatedly making what they believe are cute or funny statements (with no technical justification whatsoever) lends any credence to anything else they may post?
 
No Leaks= No Hi mileage oil needed. Just go up to 5-20 PP. Still using more oil than you like? Go up to pp5-30.
 
Originally Posted By: skaughtz
I have been juggling with the idea of finally moving away from the 0W-20 recommendation for my 2007 Camry LE 2.4L daily driver. She has 86,000 miles on her and like all of the 2AZ-FE engines, she burns some oil. Not enough to qualify for the Toyota rebuild, but enough that I keep a spare jug of oil in the trunk and check every 1,000 miles.

I got the car with 60,000 miles on her two years ago with a Jiffy Lube sticker in the corner stating it had conventional in it. My guess is because it was a grandma car before I got it (nothing against conventional). I immediately dumped it and have put in PP 0W-20 every 4,000 to 6,000 miles since then (I like synthetic oils, I like PP's spiffy bottle and natural gas base stock, and I like consistency in my buying habits). After doing some research on the oil consumption issue with those engines (if I recall correctly, it is that the oil return holes in the piston rings are milled too small and get clogged up over time), I figured a low viscosity oil would be the best way to maintain flow and decrease consumption. It is difficult to tell if the consumption has increased at all in the last 25,000+ miles, but I don't think that it has.

Anyhoo, now the car is approaching 100,000 miles and I am thinking it might be time to step up to 5W-30, as I plan on keeping it for a while. I realize the 0W-20 standard is basically due to CAFE, but if moving up a viscosity grade is merely a band-aid for the consumption issue, I would prefer to wait until further down the road to apply it, if/when consumption truly becomes an issue. But, the car is technically "high-mileage" (a designation that I am skeptical is just arbitrary), so I am also considering that.

Any thoughts on this? Is 86,000k too old to be running 0W-20? Is the increase in viscosity just a band-aid for consumption issues? Is high mileage recommended once a certain age hits or is it to more intended to counter specific issues like leaky seals, etc., that are already occurring?
The Valvoline HM oils are highly regarded as engine oil, not just as a "leak slower". The I4 has had issues with crank and cam seals as well as the oil pump to block gasket, although usualy not until much higher mileage.
 
Don't shock the poor thing. Just substitute a 1qt of 5w/10w-30 of same brand/position oil for the 0w20. See how she likes that. At some point you could go 1/2 and 1/2 20+30 grades.

Used to work well in the EJ253 Subaru that didn't take well to ILSAC GF3.
 
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Originally Posted By: FordCapriDriver
Valvoline Maxlife or M1 HM 5W-30 is what i would use for the next oil change.


Ditto or use Maxlife semi or full syn 5W20...
 
+I'd make one good attempt at the piston issue - and if to no avail - start trying some of these suggestions on HM and viscosity- until you see improvement ... I would not get hung up on a single oil - everything in this thread is a strong oil ...
 
Arco: I do something similar on seeping motors around 75k - go from 5w30 to 10w30 50/50 with HM in same brand
(Doing a 6 qt + 4 qt motor from 2 jugs M1 right now)
 
OP, I concede to your research thus far, but will treatments like Kreen, Seafoam, etc., not do anything for the piston gunk buildup? Also, what is your oil consumption? I'd put the recommended dosage of Seafoam in the oil for 2-300 miles before a change, then just before change time put a good spoonful of Seafoam down the spark plug holes, let it sit overnight, a quick crank with the plugs out, put plugs back in, drive it until warm then one or two spirited pulls up to 4-5,000 RPM, then change oil to 5w20 of your preferred brand and see if consumption goes down. I believe Maxlife usually has a better flash point (one factor that can affect oil consumption) than conventional oils, but additives for seals are the bigger point to it. NOT stop leak - legitimate chemistry that's good for the seals. That being said, I wouldn't use it until leaks develop, in favor of a non-HM syn blend or full syn.

Also, it'll smoke like a dump for a few minutes after having Seafoam in the cylinders - this is normal.
smile.gif
 
Just do an oil change to a good name-brand high mileage oil in 5w20. Run a couple of OCI's with the HM oil. I didn't have any leaks to fix; I was trying to lower consumption, and M1 HM 5w30 worked for me when I put it in the Camaro. Valvoline and Pennzoil also make good HM oils.
 
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I had an 02 Camry with with the 2AZ-FE engine that died in July at 346k. Went 200k+ burning 1qt oil every 3-4k. Only downside is fouling the catalytic converter eventually.

In addition to the piston clogging issue is bad rubber valve seals on that engine. They get hot and break down. It's also whats causing the piston clogging. Fried oil. Its the thin aluminum block. Doesn't dissipate heat so well. Change the coolant early and often. Its the best preventative for both.

Verify whether there is blue smoke at startup in the morning. If there is blue smoke a HM oil will help. I used M1 HM 5w30 for over 200k. However.. HM oil, cleaners, solvents, etc will do nothing to solve the piston issue. Only a teardown and a drill can clear the hardened carbon out of the oil control return holes.

My 02 specs 5w30. Not much difference to your 07 other than newer oils and cafe standards. So unless you are treating a oil consumption problem like valve seals or gasket leaks I would first try a 5w30 syn. Then if it turns out to be valve seals try M1 HM 5w30 or whatever your fave is. I could have sworn yours was 5w20 not 0w20..
 
Yes, the 5w30 is a bandaid for burning oil and would be better suited for harder driving in your car. My vote goes toward use the weight recommended by the manufacturer when your mileage is as low as yours is, but use it as a 0wx instead of a 5wx. So if they recommend 5w20, try the 0w20 PPHM. High mileage oils tend to have more cleaning additives in them so that should help. If there is any form of blockage for the oil returns, a piston soak may help. If none of these help, i would look into moving to a 5w30. Toyota recommends 0w20 even in Mexico on newer cars so it is not done JUST for cafe even though it may mostly be done for cafe.
 
With the oil consumption, I would go to a 5w-30 HM oil. Worth a try, the HM oil won't hurt anything, and might help.

I sold our 1997 Honda Accord 4 cyl this summer with 280,000 miles on it, still running like a champ, and using only 1/2 quart in 3000 miles. I went from QS 5w-30 conventional to QS high mileage 5w-30 at 200,000 miles to stop a small rear main seal leak, and it worked(!) for 2 years or so, then the leak started again.
 
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