Single By Choice?

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: MotoTribologist
Marriage and starting a family are not financial decisions and if you are worried about what you are going to lose when it all goes south, then guess what, it isn't going to work out because you don't believe in it from the start.

If you are not marrying and having children for love, then you are marrying and having children for the wrong reasons. And if you are marrying for love, then none of those things matter.

Simply put, do what you want to do and don't do what you don't want to do.


I actually agree with you for the most part. However, all you can really control is YOU. Any man who enters marriage these days best be prepared for a worst case scenario. Again, I am not trashing all women but there are so many bad ones these days that I wouldn't dare risk it. Seen far too many men's lives destroyed by evil and conniving women all with the full assistance and cooperation of the legal system. Trust me when I tell you that if you ever get divorced it becomes very financial and even more so if you have kids. Also, the man will far and away take the largest hit.

 

[SuperSalad]

Originally Posted By: Al

You are talking like a starry eyed teenager. Of course you need to marry someone you love, but if you ignore the financial aspect of it they you (not you personally) are quite clueless. Believe it or not..hormones die off eventually and reality sets in. Plan on it and act accordingly.

Well yes, of course don't ignore it. Issues absolutely need to be recognized and addressed, but they shouldn't be the determining factor. I would say the ability or inability to face those issues together would be a be a much better indicator.

 

[wtd]

Marriage and kids are fine when everything is going good but when it's doesn't and you end up divorced, then things turn bad and you wish you had done neither. I love my kids but if I could turn back the clock, I wouldn't have gotten married or had kids. We got divorced when the kids were 6 & 8 and she moved about 60 miles away so seeing the kids was not easy. So these days, I'm not that close to the kids and they only call me when they need something.

My ex got about $54,000 from my 401k and $800 a month in Child support. Plus I have to provide the health and dental insurance for the kids and pay half of all costs not paid by insurance. The only positive thing I got to keep was the house that I still had to pay for. I got nothing from her and on top of all of that, she had the kids 98% of the time.

I just became eligible to retire from my job but because I still have to pay CS for two more years, retirement is not going to happen yet.

I have a friend at work that is 36 and has never been married and never plans to. He is totally happy being alone. He doesn't want to change his life style for a wife or kids. He doesn't have to answer to anyone and he can do what he wants. He dates when he wants to. For him, single life is great.

Wayne

 

[Shannow]

If the money machine can have so much more (of our money) by having 1-3 people living in a "family" home rather than the 4-5 (plus grandparents) that have been part of the human condition for the last 100,000 years, then you can guarantee that they will push a system which advertises that optionality to the greatest degree.

Requiring both parents to work to pay the mortgage is the start of it...creates a divide in the first instance, and you often tend to be more aligned with the people at work in the "campaigns" that take place there versus the home life campaigns...you don't see how strong your partner actually is, because you spend most of your life watching strong people under the same adversities that you spend most of your active life.

If the system can be designed to break up the family unit, into less "efficient" use of resources (housing, money etc.), then it WILL be designed around that, advertised as that, and promoted as that as the norm.

How many people in their second (third, forth) marriage are genuinely more happy than their first ?

All of them are a grind, it's just easier to walk away these days

 

[Cristobal]

Originally Posted By: MotoTribologist
Marriage and starting a family are not financial decisions and if you are worried about what you are going to lose when it all goes south, then guess what, it isn't going to work out because you don't believe in it from the start.

If you are not marrying and having children for love, then you are marrying and having children for the wrong reasons. And if you are marrying for love, then none of those things matter.

Simply put, do what you want to do and don't do what you don't want to do.


Marriage and starting a family are not financial decisions? Seriously, man, you are either trolling, joking, deluded, or you live in a parallel universe where money grows on trees.

They are every bit as big as buying a house, and if the marriage goes south, the State comes after the man as a collection agent.

 

[Shannow]

I agree with MotoTribologist to a large part.

Idea of pre-nups pre-supposes that the worst will happen as a case in point and paints the first layer of distrust.

If you have kids, you don't do it from a parallel universe, nor suppose that money grows on trees, you will make do because it's what you want to have in your life.

 

[Black_Thunder]

I'm in my early 30's and I once thought i would eventually get married but after being single and alone for a very long time and have tried to dabble in relationships I'll never be able to do it anymore with my [censored] experiences.


So I just do what I want and deal with the deck that I've been dealt.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
If the money machine can have so much more (of our money) by having 1-3 people living in a "family" home rather than the 4-5 (plus grandparents) that have been part of the human condition for the last 100,000 years, then you can guarantee that they will push a system which advertises that optionality to the greatest degree.

Requiring both parents to work to pay the mortgage is the start of it...creates a divide in the first instance, and you often tend to be more aligned with the people at work in the "campaigns" that take place there versus the home life campaigns...you don't see how strong your partner actually is, because you spend most of your life watching strong people under the same adversities that you spend most of your active life.

If the system can be designed to break up the family unit, into less "efficient" use of resources (housing, money etc.), then it WILL be designed around that, advertised as that, and promoted as that as the norm.

How many people in their second (third, forth) marriage are genuinely more happy than their first ?

All of them are a grind, it's just easier to walk away these days


My mother remarried and they seem very happy.

Their 33rd anniversary is in about three weeks.

 

[JHZR2]

As someone in their early-mid thirties who has never once thought about needing/wanting a divorce, and who has a strong marriage with two kids, here are some of my observations:

- Too much of a focus on intimacy too early/too quick is not good.
- Too little observation of the other's traits, because of either lack of aptitude to do so, lack of caring, or other focus.
- Insufficient fiscal aptitude and responsibility (how many fights occur over money or wanting to buy things?).
- Lack of observation of the other's family and home structure. e.g. what was her mother like? How did she handle kids, home tasks, work, etc.?
- Is the potential spouse from a split home? How did that go down? Are there ingrown perceptions of mother/father as a result?
- How needy is the other person? Do they have an "I deserve" attitude, or do they have a servant attitude? (no I don't mean that he/she should be the other person's servant).
- Do your political/cultural/ethnic/religious outlooks jive?
- Is everything a one-way street?
- Does the other person expect you to suffer just because they are? (An extension of the analyses of the "I deserve" outlook as well as the service/servant mindset). This comes into play in situations like pregnancy or when one person has a strong desire for something and the other does not.
- What you have in common is important, but it has to be the right things. Going to the same bar, being part of tattoo culture, or marijuana culture, or liking the same sports teams are not appropriate criteria.

It is an interesting cross section of situations, that people wait longer to settle and have kids. To some extent, its good because notionally they have matured a bit. But the risks of genetic and other disorders or pregnancy complications increase as well.

Im on the far young end of Gen X (I think), Ive noticed that I know a good number of baby boomers who married and divorced at fairly young ages - ages (of the people and the kids) that are close to where myself and my married peers are getting to now. But Ive also noticed that this same group (the older gen X or the youngest baby boomers) also seemed to often have very short lived, very young marriages that ended in kidless divorce. Time will tell how many of my peers split. Certainly this kidless divorce at a young age is not as rampant with my age peers (and younger) as it is with my older peers.

Of my peers/age group, I know of only two people who married and then divorced. One married way early, had two kids, then divorced. One married and then left within a few months. Might have been infidelity. Of my closest friends, none has divorced yet, all are married.

I do think that the age of the working woman will help to mitigate some of the financial ruin of many men. If the two have near parity for income, then they both contributed equally from a financial basis to the home. Gone is the concept that one homemaker needs to now have income to still be a home maker in another home, and rip such an element of funds from the husband.

These sorts of "blueprints" to steal from the man, I have no doubt exist. The legal machine is fine tuned from a generation of idiots who yielded a 50% divorce rate. Sorry, but there had to be some idiocy behind that number getting so high... But people need to be smart enough to be able to properly know and understand each other, and get the other's personality enough to be able to reasonably speculate to the future what the other will be like.

Yes, people change, but good observations give you a decent probability of a close answer... I don't think people do enough due diligence and know each other enough, in real terms out side of goofing off. I also doubt that many ask the right, difficult questions, whether by self interest to do so, pre-marital counseling, etc.

 

[GrtArtiste]

I knew before I was half-way done with high school that I wanted no part of marriage or children. I was always (and still am) the short, ugly guy so that was helpful in a way. Even if the subject came up while conversing with a woman, I could just look in her eyes and see that (mentally) she was running away like a frightened rabbit. Even so, I have only ever met two women in my entire life for whom I could've possibly changed my mind. One was already married, and I consider the guy who married the other one to be the luckiest guy on the face of the earth.

I have five siblings...2 have been divorced...1 has remarried...all have children...and whatever plusses I have observed in these relationships have very nearly been obliterated by all the problems they've had. And as for the in-law experience...two are fair, two are very poor and the other I don't interact with often enough to have an opinion. For myself, I am single-childless and glad of it. I think the odds of success-happiness are worse than terrible. YMMV.

GrtArtiste

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
As someone in their early-mid thirties who has never once thought about needing/wanting a divorce, and who has a strong marriage with two kids, here are some of my observations:

I think all your observations are "spot on". But one trumps all of them and that is chemistry and hormones. If one partner finds (in spite of the fact that the other is the "perfect person") the chemistry is not right or has changed..its dead, over, finished..end of story. Its the "nature" of the beast. I sometimes chuckle when a guy or gal says they have the "perfect" marriage. That may be the feeling of both partners,,but it might not be.

 

[wrcsixeight]

Interesting thread.

I'm mid 40s, and always have been, and always will be single, because I simply can't tolerate irrationality, and I am not sexually attracted to males.

It does get lonely sometimes, but then I recall my friend's ugly divorces, their truly evil wives and their hyper entitled children, and how hard they have to work to support them, and revel in my aloneness.

A few friends have found some good women who 'seem' to be good people, wives and mothers, but still, when they do not get their way, can easily transform into a man hating, demon channeling, venom spewing succubus, whose presence I cannot escape quickly enough.

I simply can't imagine having put a ring on such a malevolent creature, and it appears to be only a matter of time before another cringe worthy transformative Jekyell and Hyde episode.

Having seen the utter futility of keeping a woman happy at a young age, and thus deciding that I never wanted kids of my own, has allowed me to live a simpler life.
Somebody has to fund the consumer economy, but it is not me.

I ignored that dangled carrot and relationships ended soon after they talked about wanting kids when in my 20's, and now in my 40's, having not bothered to acquire layers of security and assets and other burdens to which they feel entitled, I have nothing that a woman seeks, other than a still functioning sexual organ, and an ability to fix or lift things, and these they can obtain easily enough without me.

Am I happy? Not really, but I would be absolutely miserable if it were up to me to keep a modern woman happy, as it appears their 'job' is to make sure that no man ever could, while belittling him constantly and portraying themselves as victims with their fingertips raw from repeatedly pressing the 'NO Fair' button while waiting to hear the chorus of 'you go girl!'.

My intolerance of irrationality is a direct result of an alcoholic feminist mother who needed to be the victim of a male villain. Now with feminist inspired Misandry so widespread, and so culturally acceptable that it is not even acknowledged, I bet that as more young males come of age, many will opt out of the whole family oriented consumer monkey gig, as I did.

Or perhaps not. Falling in love always seems to make a man blind to his own best interests.

 

[Mr Nice]

Lots of anti women views / resentment, bitter comments about women and marriage.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
As someone in their early-mid thirties who has never once thought about needing/wanting a divorce, and who has a strong marriage with two kids, here are some of my observations:

I think all your observations are "spot on". But one trumps all of them and that is chemistry and hormones. If one partner finds (in spite of the fact that the other is the "perfect person") the chemistry is not right or has changed..its dead, over, finished..end of story. Its the "nature" of the beast. I sometimes chuckle when a guy or gal says they have the "perfect" marriage. That may be the feeling of both partners,,but it might not be.


Agreed.

One can "let themself go" in such a way that they are no longer able to support the chemistry that is required. That could be the common route of obesity and not caring, but could also be an ugly mindset that harms the relationship.

I'm sure those things develop and change over time, but I do think much is engrained in the genes and upbringing of people, which is why observation of their family structures is important. Doesn't mean that it's black and white that someone from a broken home has no chance, nor does it mean that someone from a "perfect" family will be the ideal mate... But it does give you a likely picture into the other person sometime down the road. Making an effort to find high quality compatible people is key. And that's not necessarily easily done at the bar, tattoo parlor or even church. Unfortunately I'm convinced that is as much luck as anything, but it's how one manages their luck and sets themselves up to have opportunity for good fortune that is key.

Note I didn't say I have the perfect marriage... I said a strong one. There is no perfect. We're talking imperfect, flawed humans, stuck with their biochemistry. We can disagree, we can argue, but we also love the sum greater than the parts, have strong focus on doing things together, and work to make each day better than the last. Both of us are invested in that.

 

[4WD]

Listened to a guy at work rant on about how bad his first, second, and third wives were ...

Common denominator personified ?

 

[userfriendly]

I was a single parent since my kids were 4 & 7. Last month I celebrated my 30th anniversary of being divorced, which was the best thing that happened to the three of us that remained as a family.
She, I think is on her 4th or 5th marriage (the kids and I have lost count), and every time it was, just like the 1st divorce... all HIS fault.
Last winter I finally burned about 300 lbs. of court document$.

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Lots of anti women views / resentment, bitter comments about women and marriage.

Exactly..those "evil women" no longer expect to be treated like chattel.

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Unfortunately I'm convinced that is as much luck as anything, but it's how one manages their luck and sets themselves up to have opportunity for good fortune that is key.


I think you are correct

Quote:
Note I didn't say I have the perfect marriage... I said a strong one.

Didn't mean to imply that you did.

Originally Posted By: 4WD
Listened to a guy at work rant on about how bad his first, second, and third wives were ...
Common denominator personified ?

lol

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Lots of anti women views / resentment, bitter comments about women and marriage.


A psychotic woman cost my uncle his dog, six figures, and more than a year of stress trying to divorce her. Another drove a cousin to suicide.

 

[GrtArtiste]

On the day my brother married his first wife, her father said to him..."I hope you realize you are marrying someone who will never be happy". Truer words were never spoke. He got 2 daughters and a boatload of grief before it ended six years later. One is a pot head married to a deadbeat, though I pray there is still hope for her. The other graduated from nursing school and is working as an RN and married into money...he is a doctor. My brother's ex is a drug addict married to another drug addict who constantly demands money from her daughters.

 

[Cristobal]

Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Lots of anti women views / resentment, bitter comments about women and marriage.



You might want to look at these feminist quotes on the Internet. Look up in Google "radical feminist quotes" and go to the result that says "clinically insane people."

This stuff is taught to women every day in colleges all over the Anglosphere. It is not a matter of anti-women views. On the contrary, it is all about anti-man views, and what kind of guy marries a woman who has these views? A guy who hates himself. You might be an older guy like me.

I am very glad that I am not in my 20's any more. Western culture has become a massive train wreck. It is gut-wrenching.