5W-30 is the new THICK oil

[TiredTrucker]

Originally Posted By: ChrisD46
The more interesting question is when the oil cap says "5W20" yet the manual says : "5W30 and 10W30 are permitted according to temp requirements" . For most uses in the lower 48 a 10W30 may be the forgotten , sleeper oil many should consider .


You could be right. I use 10w30 in my 2006 Cadillac and my 2015 Silverado pickup, as well as all my small engine stuff.

 

[chainblu]

I guess some of you spouting CAFE are too young to remember when 5w-30 was the CAFE suggested oil. All the old school mechanics swore engines were going to be slinging the rods through the oil pan while driving on the highway.

Here's the reality of it:
5w-30 = thin oil
xw-20 = a little thinner oil (10-15% depending on the brand)

20 or 30 years from now, you punks are going to be singing the praises of 5w-20 when 0w-5 or 0w-10 is the norm.

 

[dblshock]

0/20 in these tiny juiced engines is pushing the envelope here and now, that's the rub.

 

[Rolla07]

Originally Posted By: jayg
Originally Posted By: userfriendly
jayg; You're coming up 700k short of a million miles, and you haven't left the pavement.


I picked an arbitrary number of 300k as that is more of a common mileage of an older vehicle than a million miles. Extrapolate the formula out to a million miles and it still holds up.

Extrapolate-


1

:
to infer (values of a variable in an unobserved interval) from values within an already observed interval
2
a
:
to project, extend, or expand (known data or experience) into an area not known or experienced so as to arrive at a usually conjectural knowledge of the unknown area
b
:
to predict by projecting past experience or known data





Ok so his point is that engines wont last a million miles.. most cars arent ditched for engines going bad due to oil related issues.. and most people dump their cars well before 300k miles, so the point he is making is completely irrelevant.. Out of the population of the USA, you have maybe 1/4 of 1% who can actually rack up a million miles on one car before tons of other parts go bad? If you get to a million miles, Id bet you would have spent more than a couple new cars just to keep your car running to that point.. after 300k miles you are likely better off buying a new car than keep spending to keep it on the road...

 

[Rolla07]

Originally Posted By: FZ1
Originally Posted By: igs
Originally Posted By: Tony10s

Just like there are people who are "afraid" or reluctant to use a 0W-20 or 5W-20 motor oil when the oil cap and manual say to do so.


Do the oil cap and manual say so because it's better for the car or because they are required to?

https://iaspub.epa.gov/otaqpub/display_file.jsp?docid=14177&flag=1



This post,by IGS,solves the mystery of the thick/thin debate. It's all about the EPA and Cafe. The manufacturer is required to enter on the oil cap and in mfg. literature the same grade oil that the mfg. used in the EPA testing. That's why some new cars(Hondas)are burning oil. The Mfg. spec oil is not best for the motor....it was best for the epa mpg testing ....and the Mfg. is required to spec that oil grade(the grade used for the epa test) on the oil cap and in the Manual. Thank you igs. Now I know why my new Hondas burn a little on 0w-20.


So I guess since you must obey the warranty by using 0w20 in cars that the mfr would only stamp 0w20 if the penalty from CAFE was more than the impact of all the oil related issues they would encounter under warranty... so I suppose 0w20 causes fewer issues (less in auto mfr repairs) that it is worth complying with the CAFE rules.

 

[Rolla07]

Originally Posted By: dblshock
0/20 in these tiny juiced engines is pushing the envelope here and now, that's the rub.


Opinion does not equal fact. Unless you have alot of data to back it up.

 

[4WD]

When I dump my 10w30 in the spring - 15w40 is going in at $2 gas ...

 

[dblshock]

it's a quality of life issue, a engine blowing oil failing emission testing, check engine lit, sensors blown at 140k is reason for optimal protection...boils down to money.

 

[chunt]

My Nissan owner's manual recommends 0W20 but also states that conventional 5W30 can be used to maintain the new vehicle limited warranty. I am using 0W30 in the Nissan and my Tacoma.

 

[circuitsmith]

Originally Posted By: chainblu
I guess some of you spouting CAFE are too young to remember when 5w-30 was the CAFE suggested oil. All the old school mechanics swore engines were going to be slinging the rods through the oil pan while driving on the highway.

Here's the reality of it:
5w-30 = thin oil
xw-20 = a little thinner oil (10-15% depending on the brand)

20 or 30 years from now, you punks are going to be singing the praises of 5w-20 when 0w-5 or 0w-10 is the norm.


But today's 5w-30 oils offer better protection than they did 20+ years ago.
There was a time when 10w-40 had shortcomings vs sae 20 or 30.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: circuitsmith
But today's 5w-30 oils offer better protection than they did 20+ years ago.
There was a time when 10w-40 had shortcomings vs sae 20 or 30.


Yep, that's why M1 5W20 went head to head against the 10W40s of the day...performance was comparable.

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: circuitsmith
Originally Posted By: chainblu
I guess some of you spouting CAFE are too young to remember when 5w-30 was the CAFE suggested oil. All the old school mechanics swore engines were going to be slinging the rods through the oil pan while driving on the highway.

Here's the reality of it:
5w-30 = thin oil
xw-20 = a little thinner oil (10-15% depending on the brand)

20 or 30 years from now, you punks are going to be singing the praises of 5w-20 when 0w-5 or 0w-10 is the norm.


But today's 5w-30 oils offer better protection than they did 20+ years ago.
There was a time when 10w-40 had shortcomings vs sae 20 or 30.


I ran M1 5w30 in my 1985 Pontiac Sunbird turbo, starting in about 1987. I traded it in at 166k miles in 1999, and the engine still wouldn't burn a drop of oil in a 6000 change interval.

 

[SR5]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: circuitsmith
But today's 5w-30 oils offer better protection than they did 20+ years ago.
There was a time when 10w-40 had shortcomings vs sae 20 or 30.


Yep, that's why M1 5W20 went head to head against the 10W40s of the day...performance was comparable.


Yes I agree, the old 10W40 caused a lot of problems.

But the modern 10W40 is a different beast. I can go to KMart in Oz and pick up some Shell Helix HX7 10W40 semi-synthetic at a very reasonable price. It's rated API SN, ACEA A3/B4, MB 229.3, VW 502 / 505, RN 0700 / 0710. All oil grades have been improved and developed over time.

My local garage uses Valvoline DuraBlend 10W40 SN & A3/B4 as their bulk fill. Just saying...

 

[bbhero]

Great point A Harmon. It all depends UPON QUALITY of the oil as to what performance and longevity one gets from it.
Having said this... if I were to get a new Nissan VQ spec'd to run a 0w20 I would get me some Redline 0w20 with an HTHS of 2.9-3.0. A bit thicker than the routine 20s out there. But still technically a 20 grade.

 

[fdcg27]

Originally Posted By: dblshock
that 12 Accord a K-24? HGMO the blend or full? how much out the pipe in 10k?


I assume you're addressing me although you replied to Merk since he doesn't drive an Accord.
This run is of HGMO SM syn, which has very high moly content and a decently high VI, although not as high as TGMO API SM 0W-20.
Consumption is negligible on drains that average 8K+ at something less than 15% MM.
IOW, oil consumption is of no concern using a 0W-20 in this engine as we use it, which is probably 60% commuting at speeds ranging in the fifty to sixty range and maybe 40% fast highway, where the car will see speeds in the young to mid eighties.

 

[fdcg27]

Try telling tig that his zero consumption high-mileage Fords have somehow suffered from his use of 0W-20 in them.
He'd probably appreciate the laugh.
5W-20 became the factory recommended grade for most Fords and Hondas more than two decades ago.
Did lots of bad things happen to lots of engines?
So why would anyone think that bad things will start happening to engines merely by using the same oil with a lower W qualification?
If anything, a 0W-XX requires that a higher quality basestock blend be used as compared to any 5W-XX oil.
No twenty grade is ready for unlimited speed highway use, but we don't have any such roads in this market.

 

[53' Stude]

Very good points sir

 

[FZ1]

Originally Posted By: Rolla07
Originally Posted By: FZ1
Originally Posted By: igs
Originally Posted By: Tony10s

Just like there are people who are "afraid" or reluctant to use a 0W-20 or 5W-20 motor oil when the oil cap and manual say to do so.


Do the oil cap and manual say so because it's better for the car or because they are required to?

https://iaspub.epa.gov/otaqpub/display_file.jsp?docid=14177&flag=1



This post,by IGS,solves the mystery of the thick/thin debate. It's all about the EPA and Cafe. The manufacturer is required to enter on the oil cap and in mfg. literature the same grade oil that the mfg. used in the EPA testing. That's why some new cars(Hondas)are burning oil. The Mfg. spec oil is not best for the motor....it was best for the epa mpg testing ....and the Mfg. is required to spec that oil grade(the grade used for the epa test) on the oil cap and in the Manual. Thank you igs. Now I know why my new Hondas burn a little on 0w-20.


So I guess since you must obey the warranty by using 0w20 in cars that the mfr would only stamp 0w20 if the penalty from CAFE was more than the impact of all the oil related issues they would encounter under warranty... so I suppose 0w20 causes fewer issues (less in auto mfr repairs) that it is worth complying with the CAFE rules.
I'm sure the Honda engineers know that their motor will last 100k running any kind of oil and that their powertrain warranty is only 60k. Noticed you changed the weight of oil in your footer from 40 weight to 20 weight......Canada,you know.

 

[Rolla07]

[/quote] This post,by IGS,solves the mystery of the thick/thin debate. It's all about the EPA and Cafe. The manufacturer is required to enter on the oil cap and in mfg. literature the same grade oil that the mfg. used in the EPA testing. That's why some new cars(Hondas)are burning oil. The Mfg. spec oil is not best for the motor....it was best for the epa mpg testing ....and the Mfg. is required to spec that oil grade(the grade used for the epa test) on the oil cap and in the Manual. Thank you igs. Now I know why my new Hondas burn a little on 0w-20. [/quote]

So I guess since you must obey the warranty by using 0w20 in cars that the mfr would only stamp 0w20 if the penalty from CAFE was more than the impact of all the oil related issues they would encounter under warranty... so I suppose 0w20 causes fewer issues (less in auto mfr repairs) that it is worth complying with the CAFE rules. [/quote] I'm sure the Honda engineers know that their motor will last 100k running any kind of oil and that their powertrain warranty is only 60k. Noticed you changed the weight of oil in your footer from 40 weight to 20 weight......Canada,you know. [/quote]

Exactly, you wont have any issues running 0w20 in a Honda even in Texas..so why use thicker with this pre-conceived notion that thicker protects better? If the oil stays in grade during the full OCI, than id say it protects...

And yes, I changed the oil and filter listed in my footer because I just changed my oil last weekend. Out came PUP 0w40 and a napa filter and in went PP 0w20 and OEM filter for the winter run.

 

[FZ1]

My 2014 Accord 2.4 is burning a little on Dealer fill 0w-20. There are other newer Hondas that are also burning 0w-20. I'm going to uoa the dealerfill then go thicker in grade to see if that helps. New cars shouldn't be burning the mfg. spec grade of oil. P.S. IGS's post explains that the mfg. has to mark the epa test oil spec(the thinnest oil possible to boost epa mpg)on the oil cap. Some engines need a thicker grade out of the box. I'm just looking to find the thinnest oil that doesn't burn in my Honda. I'll keep you updated on my progress.