5W-30 is the new THICK oil

[jayg]

Originally Posted By: kschachn


I (as well as you) know exactly where he pulled those numbers from.



It's still fun to call them on it though. Most on here read things like that and discard it as nonsense but some new members read these things and not know how to take it.

 

[dblshock]

from Mobil1 site comparing 0/20 to 5/30

40C 44.8 - 61.7
100C 8.7 - 11.00


tad more than 25%

 

[jayg]

Originally Posted By: dblshock
from Mobil1 site comparing 0/20 to 5/30

40C 44.8 - 61.7
100C 8.7 - 11.00


tad more than 25%


You know that doesn't mean "protection" right?

 

[simple_gifts]

Originally Posted By: virginoil

Toyota Corolla 1.8L 2013-2016 models is a Valvoline recommends 0w-20 or 5w-30 or 10w-30 or 10w-40 oil


http://www.datateck.com.au/lube/valv_auMS/


Valvoline also still recommends a 3K mile OCI. What confidence in their oil that relays.

 

[umungus1122]

Originally Posted By: dblshock
from Mobil1 site comparing 0/20 to 5/30

40C 44.8 - 61.7
100C 8.7 - 11.00


tad more than 25%
That's a facepalm moment right there.

 

[Tony10s]

Originally Posted By: Vuflanovsky
Originally Posted By: igs
Originally Posted By: Tony10s

Just like there are people who are "afraid" or reluctant to use a 0W-20 or 5W-20 motor oil when the oil cap and manual say to do so.


Do the oil cap and manual say so because it's better for the car or because they are required to?

https://iaspub.epa.gov/otaqpub/display_file.jsp?docid=14177&flag=1





What's "better" and how do you quantify it?? Does that mean you'll get 350K miles out of the engine w/ 5w-30 vs. 300K miles with a thinner oil or does it in fact not matter for the vast majority of drivers who don't keep vehicles that long anyway?? The engineer vs. bean counter thing has been beaten to death and it's likely that the empirical reality is that it depends on the vehicle and not the one up or down grade of oil you put in it.

There should be a contest on this site to see how many ways the "thick vs. thin" debate can be portrayed and argue about something that there isn't a universal answer for...it's right up there with "who invented air??" in the brain synapse department.

Exactly, Vuflanovsky.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: jayg
Originally Posted By: dblshock
from Mobil1 site comparing 0/20 to 5/30

40C 44.8 - 61.7
100C 8.7 - 11.00

tad more than 25%

You know that doesn't mean "protection" right?


Yes he does, but like the majority of his posts about facts, they are conveniently ignored.

 

[bbhero]

We need to put up HTHS as the standard here. That is where the rubber hits the proverbial road really.

I would gladly run a 5w20 or 0w20 if a car asked for it. Given it wasn't turbo charged. Ford had concerns about their ecoboost circumstance. Now specifying 5w30. The 0w20s and 5w20s are much better than they would've been 15-20yrs ago. Additive packages are making up the difference for wear protection in many applications. Look at tig1s Ford Fusion pics running 0w20. Awesome indeed. Clean and hardly any real visible wear on the cam lobes. One thing I think helps out.... just a larger sump capacity. I like my 08 Ford Fusion with 5.5 qts. And now our North American manufactors are starting to wise up and do what the European manufactors have been doing for quite awhile.

 

[dblshock]

well protection was not the right term obviously ment viscosity which when scorched, sheered & diluted is important in these tiny turbo 3.5qt. sump engines.

 

[dblshock]

HTHS is +15% on mobil1 5/30 to 0/20

 

[mjoekingz28]

Originally Posted By: dblshock
Want to sell cars in the U.S.?

CAFE is regulation, here's the reason your told to use light 0/20 oil...

'If the average fuel economy of a manufacturer's annual fleet of vehicle production falls below the applicable requirement, the manufacturer must either apply sufficient CAFE credits (see below) to cover the shortfall or pay apenalty, currently $5.50 per 0.1 mpg under the standard, multiplied by the manufacturer's total production for the U.S. domestic market. '





Is that how they got us with shift lights, CAGS, race-to-the-top 8 speed automatics and other such nonsense?

 

[dx92beater]

Love this thread.

 

[dblshock]

Sure, I had a rental '16 Cherokee brand new shifted 256 times per mile in urban commutes.

 

[FCD]

Originally Posted By: umungus1122
Originally Posted By: dblshock
from Mobil1 site comparing 0/20 to 5/30

40C 44.8 - 61.7
100C 8.7 - 11.00


tad more than 25%
That's a facepalm moment right there.

Yeah, higher kinematic viscosity DOES NOT equal more protection , if it would everybody would be running Straight 60.

 

[jayg]

Originally Posted By: umungus1122
Originally Posted By: dblshock
from Mobil1 site comparing 0/20 to 5/30

40C 44.8 - 61.7
100C 8.7 - 11.00


tad more than 25%
That's a facepalm moment right there.

After a decade of posts and giving advice. Sad.

 

[igs]

Originally Posted By: Vuflanovsky
Originally Posted By: igs
Originally Posted By: Tony10s

Just like there are people who are "afraid" or reluctant to use a 0W-20 or 5W-20 motor oil when the oil cap and manual say to do so.


Do the oil cap and manual say so because it's better for the car or because they are required to?

https://iaspub.epa.gov/otaqpub/display_file.jsp?docid=14177&flag=1




What's "better" and how do you quantify it??


Better than everyone else outside the US with the exact same engine but have a different number on the oil cap and manual.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: jayg
Originally Posted By: umungus1122
Originally Posted By: dblshock
from Mobil1 site comparing 0/20 to 5/30

40C 44.8 - 61.7
100C 8.7 - 11.00


tad more than 25%
That's a facepalm moment right there.

After a decade of posts and giving advice. Sad.

 

[Vuflanovsky]

Originally Posted By: igs
Originally Posted By: Vuflanovsky
Originally Posted By: igs
Originally Posted By: Tony10s

Just like there are people who are "afraid" or reluctant to use a 0W-20 or 5W-20 motor oil when the oil cap and manual say to do so.


Do the oil cap and manual say so because it's better for the car or because they are required to?

https://iaspub.epa.gov/otaqpub/display_file.jsp?docid=14177&flag=1




What's "better" and how do you quantify it??


Better than everyone else outside the US with the exact same engine but have a different number on the oil cap and manual.

...and the possibility exists that different climatic conditions and/or 9000 ppm of sulphur in the fuel might cause that countries owners manual or oil cap to list a different grade...that's independent of CAFE. I'd be hesitant to always call it an apples to apples comparison with what's ostensibly the same vehicle in another country. Direct injection engines aren't imported into some countries just due to the quality of the gas. I can see a different oil grade recommendation just based on something like that...or possibly even components that are missing vs. the U.S.-spec engines.

 

[Jetronic]

Originally Posted By: jayg
Originally Posted By: dblshock
it's more about keeping an engine fresh, running like new. 5/30 costs no more than 0/20 yet 25% more protection.


Where on earth did you come up with that number? Going from a 0w20 to a 5w30 get you 25% more protection? Honestly, where are you getting that number?

By your logic if somebody uses SAE 60 they should 300% more protected.


This place is chock full of misinformation passed off as fact.


3.5 cP HTHS / 2.6 cP HTHS = 1.346 so up to 35% is actually possible.

SAE 60 would have a HTHS of about 6.5 and would be 150% more protective.

 

[Shannow]

When it comes to minimum oil film thickness (the film that keeps parts separated), simple physics says that if you keep everything else constant, then more viscosity equals more protection (parts separation, safety margin, whatever)...

And depending on operating conditions (NOT keeping the above constant, changing RPM, load etc.) the results may be significant or not.

Things like the economboxes around here knocking and near stalling away from the stop sign (Aussies still have lots of manual trans), that low RPM, high load could actually be a range where that protection is more useful than in an automatic.

So YES, more viscosity, more parts separation, more "protection", more margin for error.

Do you need it ?

Not necessarily, but thin oils (as per every paper on the subject), aren't going in to make your engine last longer.