What do you think of this PS repair

[ford46guy]

I replaced a pump but disturbing the hose caused the Infamous ford hidden O-ring leak. The stop leak may have masked that too, or just loosing the fitting after 22 years could have damaged the O-ring. There is no repair for that O-ring.

The problem is there are two hoses - I have no problem replacing the pump hose but it joins to another hose that likely requires dropping the engine and exhaust to get to the rack.

This is the pump hose, the fitting where it meets the other hose on the left is a swivel(I believe so) with an internal O-ring, maybe I can turn that instead of the fitting on hose 2. If I damage the O-ring on hose 2, its game over though.

Second hose to the rack (can't even see the end it is so buried)

This below looks like a great idea but I'm concerned about rubber and ATF. I'm sure it will last a year or two, and the o-ring leak is very small even if it fails. The OEM hoses are almost joined this way!



Plan C? Lucas, but I hate to add that. I see why that industry is so big. I called two shops and they said that is exactly what we would do for a car that age, unless you want a 2K bill(who knows what else will break). The tech said he would have no qualms putting in if it was his car in this case. Probably one bottle would take care of it.

 

[Doublehaul]

Try the o ring fix...I think you will be ok actually. Atf is not super tough on rubber like fuel is

 

[Trav]

Something else you can try is to wrap the beveled end with heavy gas line yellow teflon tape, it wont break down in oil. Wrap the beveled pipe end well and tight with 4-5 turns leaving the hole exposed, don't let any stringy bits get in the hole, it should work okay.
A viton O ring will also work okay but these are not your common garden variety O rings found in the hardware store. I have them, if you give me the size I will send you a couple.

 

[Run]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Something else you can try is to wrap the beveled end with heavy gas line yellow teflon tape, it wont break down in oil. Wrap the beveled pipe end well and tight with 4-5 turns leaving the hole exposed, don't let any stringy bits get in the hole, it should work okay.
A viton O ring will also work okay but these are not your common garden variety O rings found in the hardware store. I have them, if you give me the size I will send you a couple.


I would try the teflon tape.

 

[ford46guy]

Thanks for the ideas so far, I may try a thin piece of transmission or fuel hose. No rush on this car.

 

[ford46guy]

Originally Posted By: Run
Originally Posted By: Trav
Something else you can try is to wrap the beveled end with heavy gas line yellow teflon tape, it wont break down in oil. Wrap the beveled pipe end well and tight with 4-5 turns leaving the hole exposed, don't let any stringy bits get in the hole, it should work okay.
A viton O ring will also work okay but these are not your common garden variety O rings found in the hardware store. I have them, if you give me the size I will send you a couple.


I would try the teflon tape.

I don't see how that would work though. It is like a brake flare fitting, and it does not really bottom out or seal at the flare. There is not really much room to wrap, it would form a loose cone.

 

[ford46guy]

I looked at the old pump.
The fitting inside is interesting.

It is about 14.4 mm dia. bored into the housing.
Then there is a ring where the fitting bottoms out about 9mm dia. I guess this receives the outer "flare fitting".

All open in the center except...for a tiny pin (maybe the fluid squirts thru there).

All sealing is done by the hose o-ring and the teflon push on O-ring for the threads.

 

[Yah-Tah-Hey]

O rings seal by controlled deformation. They take a permanent set, loose resiliency and ability to seal over a long period of use. Probably the most reliable type of seal ever.

 

[ford46guy]

Hose end close up. Only the threaded fitting edge will contact metal.

I'm thinking a sliver of fuel or trans hose now, maybe beveled a bit.

 

[4WD]

That is not known by all.
I have rebuilt never used multimillion dollar industrial equipment because it stayed in storage too long -
(climate controlled at that) and the OEM stated the 5 year CoC was based on when the O rings were installed !

 

[zzyzzx]

If it's anything like my 1995 Escort, if the PS hoses go bad, I might just convert it to manual steering. It uses 3 separate hoses joined together to form one one hose to connect the rack to the pump for a total of 6 hoses. I have no idea why they didn't just use one longer hose for each run, but IMO it makes replacing just the intermediate hose very difficult.

 

[DoubleWasp]

Harbor Freight sells Vinton o-rings in a variety pack.

 

[4WD]

Viton ? (Spell check got ya)

 

[DoubleWasp]

Nuts.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: ford46guy
Originally Posted By: Run
Originally Posted By: Trav
Something else you can try is to wrap the beveled end with heavy gas line yellow teflon tape, it wont break down in oil. Wrap the beveled pipe end well and tight with 4-5 turns leaving the hole exposed, don't let any stringy bits get in the hole, it should work okay.
A viton O ring will also work okay but these are not your common garden variety O rings found in the hardware store. I have them, if you give me the size I will send you a couple.


I would try the teflon tape.

I don't see how that would work though. It is like a brake flare fitting, and it does not really bottom out or seal at the flare. There is not really much room to wrap, it would form a loose cone.


Okay, I thought the flare went onto a cone and made a seal like a brake line.

 

[eljefino]

Buy the new hose with the o-ring, fitting and everything else you need. Cut it on the metal, cut the old one on its metal in the same spot, and use a compression fitting to join the two.

Note that "they" say PS can spike to 800 psi and compression fittings are good to 500. If it lets go, which I doubt, put a double flare and union in there.

 

[ford46guy]

Had some time to look at it today again.

1) rubber washer is a bad idea, I looked closely, there is some drain port at the base of the bore, the rubber would block it, out of the question... This fitting goes about 1/2 way down into the hole. All of the sealing is done at the top, via the nylon washer for the threads an an upper oring for the fluid.
2) I put back the original without the washer and it leaks even worse now.
3) Then I had an idea, Maybe I could take apart the fitting - it is retained with a snap ring - So I put in a beveled washer backwards and cranked it down. The fitting separated (another reason the rubber isn't the greatest idea). The metal tube is held it place with retainers, so fully popping off is unlikely.

I was able to salvage a tiny, very crusty square cut o-ring. Maybe I will take it around to some hydraulic shops and see what they say. I also think that first hose can be removed without disturbing or turning the second. It has a swivel. Later today I'll check the parts store to be sure. Again, this is the last resort because that hose is practically irreplaceable.

 

[ford46guy]

Well it turns out the fitting is serviceable and the black o-ring included in the Motorcraft PS kit serves that purpose. No one even knew what that o-ring is for, even the dealer. Ford PS pumps usually come with one white(teflon slide on) and one black oring.
Turns out Ford makes a mystery service part for those fittings, and it interchanges with everything from a 90 escort to a Navigator sitting on the lot today : F5RZ-3R608B. The original old part number (a NOS part) comes in a made in Japan bag and was for the Escort (Mazda design?).

here is the snap ring view and the O-ring goes into an internal groove in the wide collar:

You don't even need that part if you have the included Oring. Trick is getting off the fitting, it can be cut or pressed off like I described above. I cleaned up the tube o-ring surface with 800 grit and some trans fluid, looked nice and shiny.

So far, after 100 miles, leak free on stock fluid(type F). Bottom line is this could save dropping rusty exhaust and subframes in some cases... Hope it can help someone in the future.