K&N first disappointment

[circuitsmith]

Originally Posted By: Olas
Originally Posted By: circuitsmith
Re. air filters affecting MPGs, they don't:
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/pdfs/Air_Filter_Effects_02_26_2009.pdf



Without clarifying that you mean a vehicle with O2 feedback and closed loop, you're simply wrong.
Carburettors, for example.


Read carefully and you'll see an older carbureted engine was tested.
Filter effect on MPG was very small, even when the filter was restricted enough to collapse.
A properly designed carb vents to downstream of the filter, so pressure drop through the intake filter and plumbing is compensated for.

 

[bunnspecial]

Originally Posted By: circuitsmith
Originally Posted By: Olas
Originally Posted By: circuitsmith
Re. air filters affecting MPGs, they don't:
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/pdfs/Air_Filter_Effects_02_26_2009.pdf



Without clarifying that you mean a vehicle with O2 feedback and closed loop, you're simply wrong.
Carburettors, for example.


Read carefully and you'll see an older carbureted engine was tested.
Filter effect on MPG was very small, even when the filter was restricted enough to collapse.
A properly designed carb vents to downstream of the filter, so pressure drop through the intake filter and plumbing is compensated for.


On my "fun car" the design of the stock air cleaners is such that they need to be removed to adjust the mixture and balance the idle air flow of the carburetors. I then typically will leave them off completely while I road tune the car.

In any case, the stock air cleaners are large conical "cans" that contain a round paper element. The element is entirely surrounded(albeit with a lot of free space) and the cans have pipes that draw air from cooler parts of the engine bay-specifically right behind the grille and right above the pedal box.

The conventional wisdom is that the air cleaners make the carburetors run slightly more rich. That normally doesn't bother me as my car likes to run a bit rich anyway(plus I'll take power over economy any day), but none the less it's often advised to lean the mixture by one or two "flats" with the air cleaner installed. There is a traditional test used with this type of carburetor for the mixture that can be done with the air cleaners in place, and that test has told me that the mixture is still correct. I went one step further, though, and looked at it with a wide-band A/F sensor. I go from about 14.5 to 14.4 at idle with the air cleaners installed. Once the accelerator pump effect disappears(these carbs don't have an accelerator pump, but replicate its function) the high RPM mixtures remain similar. Again, I tend to tune the car on the rich side and my needle choice dictates this(SU carburetors use a single needle for metering rather than different size jets) so much car does run rich at higher RPMs but that's a conscious choice.

 

[wemay]

Called K&N, advised what happened and told them i received a refund through Amazon. They stepped up and said "no matter, we're sending you a new filter with oil aerosol and cleaner." Excellent service!

 

[CR94]

Originally Posted By: circuitsmith
Originally Posted By: Olas
Originally Posted By: circuitsmith
Re. air filters affecting MPGs, they don't:
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/pdfs/Air_Filter_Effects_02_26_2009.pdf



Without clarifying that you mean a vehicle with O2 feedback and closed loop, you're simply wrong.
Carburettors, for example.


Read carefully and you'll see an older carbureted engine was tested.
Filter effect on MPG was very small, even when the filter was restricted enough to collapse.
A properly designed carb vents to downstream of the filter, so pressure drop through the intake filter and plumbing is compensated for.
Right. I ran air filters well over 100,000 miles a couple of times in my last carbureted car. Replacing them then made no noticeable difference in engine torque or fuel consumption.

 

[SatinSilver]

Do the K&N stickers come in the box or do you have to order them separately?

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: SatinSilver
Do the K&N stickers come in the box or do you have to order them separately?


Two per box. One is for engine compartment.

 

[wemay]

Received the new replacement filter yesterday...
But running a paper filter in the Corolla now. Might just leave that in for the first 30k.

 

[tc1446]

I used one in the Ranger for a bit but went back to OEM. Its clean and ready to install if anyone wants it for price of shipping. Should fit about any Ford Ranger. PM me if interested.

 

[slybunda]

K&n stickers are there for free advertising?

 

[Sayjac]

Originally Posted By: wemay
Called K&N, advised what happened and told them i received a refund through Amazon. They stepped up and said "no matter, we're sending you a new filter with oil aerosol and cleaner." Excellent service!

If nothing else you've got to give them kudos and credit for the excellent customer service. Impressive.

As for the K&N AF's, read about them on this subforum quite a bit, 'generally' negative though some positive reviews. But it was the one anecdote posted by Ben99GT showing pics of the inlet tract using K&N that left the biggest impression on me. Made me say I'll stick with the paper/cellulose type AF. That and rather not mess with cleaning and re-oiling. Just me.

Linked are Ben's threads first using K&N, second comparison with change to the Amsoil Ea.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/2269966/1

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2506544

 

[Neil_A]

Originally Posted By: sprite1741
When you change any air filter, especially a K&N spray the MAF with some CRC MAF cleaner. I clean mine every filter change but it's never looked dirty. With a K&N I would do it more often because of the dirt that gets by and any oil from the thing.


Agree 100% and not just because we drive GXPs.

 

[Bgallagher]

never got the appeal. I always felt that a cheap and a nice air filter offered similar qualities. A better investment is a flow meter than a "high quality" air filter

 

[FastLane]

I bought two filters years ago. I put one in my Dad's new 1998 mustang. It set of a check engine light. He took it to Ford and they showed him the MAF sensor. Dust and oil all over it. They put a new MAF sensor in under warranty and charged him for a paper filter. K&N went to the garbage. I had the same experience in a Neon DOHC. Both filters were oiled from the factory. JUNK

 

[WhizkidTN]

Originally Posted By: Sayjac
Originally Posted By: wemay
Called K&N, advised what happened and told them i received a refund through Amazon. They stepped up and said "no matter, we're sending you a new filter with oil aerosol and cleaner." Excellent service!

If nothing else you've got to give them kudos and credit for the excellent customer service. Impressive.

As for the K&N AF's, read about them on this subforum quite a bit, 'generally' negative though some positive reviews. But it was the one anecdote posted by Ben99GT showing pics of the inlet tract using K&N that left the biggest impression on me. Made me say I'll stick with the paper/cellulose type AF. That and rather not mess with cleaning and re-oiling. Just me.

Linked are Ben's threads first using K&N, second comparison with change to the Amsoil Ea.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/2269966/1

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2506544


I had a similar experience my my Volvo S80. When I installed the K&N filter, in about a month of driving it, I got a CEL (forgot what code now, was over two years ago). I cleaned the MAF (w/CRC cleaner, did not appear dirty or oily however) and the code and continued on my way. Same thing happened again. Filter did not appear to be "over oiled" from the factory. I repeated this experiment one more time and then went back to the Volvo OEM filter. No CELs or issues of any kind. Very unhappy with the Volvo application however I did install one in my wife's Rogue. No issues there. In neither case did I notice any "butt dyno" difference in performance but that was not why I was buying them.