It's looking like you guys better do this. He shows you what the valves look like after 20,000 miles and they're filthy without the catch can.
Installing Catch Can on Ford Ecoboost
- Thread starter Merkava_4
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I've used a catch-can on all my high performance cars, even if normally aspirated. They still catch a significant amount of oil (especially when the engine is ran hard like in track use) that would otherwise be sucked into the intake manifold through the PCV system and down the intake valves as discussed in the video. The catch-can also gives you an idea of how tight the rings are in the engine ... more blow-by equals more caught in the catch-can.
I run one on my 2014 mustang GT. I just emptied mine and had 1 oz of oil in it for about 2,200 miles of driving.
i will be installing this one soon.
wemay
Site Donor 2023
No catch can for me...
Hyundai Sonata - over 55k
Hyundai Veloster - over 70k
Hyundai Santa Fe Turbo - over 40k
From most literature I've read, GDi induced deposits become an issue below 50k miles.
All GDi. All mostly city trips, used or using conv, blends and syn oils and never an issue.
BTW: The Corolla isn't GDi.
Hyundai Sonata - over 55k
Hyundai Veloster - over 70k
Hyundai Santa Fe Turbo - over 40k
From most literature I've read, GDi induced deposits become an issue below 50k miles.
All GDi. All mostly city trips, used or using conv, blends and syn oils and never an issue.
BTW: The Corolla isn't GDi.
Originally Posted By: wemay
No catch can for me...
Hyundai Sonata - over 55k
Hyundai Veloster - over 70k
Hyundai Santa Fe Turbo - over 40k
From most literature I've read, GDi induced deposits become an issue below 50k miles.
All GDi. All mostly city trips, used or using conv, blends and syn oils and never an issue.
BTW: The Corolla isn't GDi.
I agree. No catch can for me either. The EcoBoost 3.5 has been out since '10 and I've personally yet to see one in the shop for driveability issues due to carbon on the valves. It may happen but it's far from a common problem.
No catch can for me...
Hyundai Sonata - over 55k
Hyundai Veloster - over 70k
Hyundai Santa Fe Turbo - over 40k
From most literature I've read, GDi induced deposits become an issue below 50k miles.
All GDi. All mostly city trips, used or using conv, blends and syn oils and never an issue.
BTW: The Corolla isn't GDi.
I agree. No catch can for me either. The EcoBoost 3.5 has been out since '10 and I've personally yet to see one in the shop for driveability issues due to carbon on the valves. It may happen but it's far from a common problem.
From what I have read on GDI, the deposits are the result of dirty oil, not PCV.
I stick to the severe service with regular oil on my sonata, and fill it with top tier gas.
I stick to the severe service with regular oil on my sonata, and fill it with top tier gas.
FordTechMakuloco is awesome.
I watch the channel and don't have any Fords. Is very knowledgeable.
I watch the channel and don't have any Fords. Is very knowledgeable.
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
It's looking like you guys better do this. He shows you what the valves look like after 20,000 miles and they're filthy without the catch can.
LOL. Nope, no thanks, no snake oil for me. Cans do nothing for valve deposits. Ask the VW/Audi guys who found out they do nothing. I've got 105k on one EB 3.5 and 76k on the other, no cans, no performance problems.
We went round and round with this nonsense on one of the F150 boards years ago. The can vendor was unable so supply any data to back up their claims and even no pictures of his valves on his shop vehicle that "had a can on from day 1"..... Lots of wild accusations about how the EB's PCV system was "defective" but no hard data to back it up. No thanks - snake oil by any other name is still snake oil.
It's looking like you guys better do this. He shows you what the valves look like after 20,000 miles and they're filthy without the catch can.
LOL. Nope, no thanks, no snake oil for me. Cans do nothing for valve deposits. Ask the VW/Audi guys who found out they do nothing. I've got 105k on one EB 3.5 and 76k on the other, no cans, no performance problems.
We went round and round with this nonsense on one of the F150 boards years ago. The can vendor was unable so supply any data to back up their claims and even no pictures of his valves on his shop vehicle that "had a can on from day 1"..... Lots of wild accusations about how the EB's PCV system was "defective" but no hard data to back it up. No thanks - snake oil by any other name is still snake oil.
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I imagine that deposit problems will arise once our vehicles become older and the build up grows past a limit where restriction becomes a problem. Right now on a new vehicle, I doubt anyone feels the slow robbing of 1-2 ponies as the valve deposits grow and begin to effect air flow ever so slightly.
I imagine that the build up has to be severe to the point of mountains of carbon on the valve actually blockin air flow and then that will trigger idling issues and obviously the engine running poorly as it struggles to take in air. It's not pretty.
I'm sure the OEMs know this will take a long time to build up and by then, the vehicle has over 100k miles, is out of warranty and probably on the second or third owner by now and it's their headache at that point.
My 2014 Mazda 3 has the Skyactiv engine and direct injection. I plan to pull the intake manifold and evaluate the condition of the valves now that the block has close to 50k miles on it. I run her HARD and imagine that the Italian tune ups have helped to keep things clean due to constant pressure blowing stuff off, vs slow and steady driving style. We'll see... I'll post my findings once the job gets underway in the next few weeks hopefully.
I imagine that the build up has to be severe to the point of mountains of carbon on the valve actually blockin air flow and then that will trigger idling issues and obviously the engine running poorly as it struggles to take in air. It's not pretty.
I'm sure the OEMs know this will take a long time to build up and by then, the vehicle has over 100k miles, is out of warranty and probably on the second or third owner by now and it's their headache at that point.
My 2014 Mazda 3 has the Skyactiv engine and direct injection. I plan to pull the intake manifold and evaluate the condition of the valves now that the block has close to 50k miles on it. I run her HARD and imagine that the Italian tune ups have helped to keep things clean due to constant pressure blowing stuff off, vs slow and steady driving style. We'll see... I'll post my findings once the job gets underway in the next few weeks hopefully.
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
It's looking like you guys better do this. He shows you what the valves look like after 20,000 miles and they're filthy without the catch can.
LOL. Nope, no thanks, no snake oil for me. Cans do nothing for valve deposits. Ask the VW/Audi guys who found out they do nothing. I've got 105k on one EB 3.5 and 76k on the other, no cans, no performance problems.
We went round and round with this nonsense on one of the F150 boards years ago. The can vendor was unable so supply any data to back up their claims and even no pictures of his valves on his shop vehicle that "had a can on from day 1"..... Lots of wild accusations about how the EB's PCV system was "defective" but no hard data to back it up. No thanks - snake oil by any other name is still snake oil.
One vendor in an EcoBoost Facebook group I was in pushed the catch cans and the "rat stat" really hard. They were the miraculous cure to problems no one really seemed to be having.
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
It's looking like you guys better do this. He shows you what the valves look like after 20,000 miles and they're filthy without the catch can.
LOL. Nope, no thanks, no snake oil for me. Cans do nothing for valve deposits. Ask the VW/Audi guys who found out they do nothing. I've got 105k on one EB 3.5 and 76k on the other, no cans, no performance problems.
We went round and round with this nonsense on one of the F150 boards years ago. The can vendor was unable so supply any data to back up their claims and even no pictures of his valves on his shop vehicle that "had a can on from day 1"..... Lots of wild accusations about how the EB's PCV system was "defective" but no hard data to back it up. No thanks - snake oil by any other name is still snake oil.
One vendor in an EcoBoost Facebook group I was in pushed the catch cans and the "rat stat" really hard. They were the miraculous cure to problems no one really seemed to be having.
Originally Posted By: JustinH
From what I have read on GDI, the deposits are the result of dirty oil, not PCV.
I stick to the severe service with regular oil on my sonata, and fill it with top tier gas.
Dirty or clean oil, gets sucked through the PCV and drips down through the stem seals onto the valves where it mixes with EGR to create tar that bakes on.
EGR and PCV are 100% responsible
From what I have read on GDI, the deposits are the result of dirty oil, not PCV.
I stick to the severe service with regular oil on my sonata, and fill it with top tier gas.
Dirty or clean oil, gets sucked through the PCV and drips down through the stem seals onto the valves where it mixes with EGR to create tar that bakes on.
EGR and PCV are 100% responsible
Yeah, some people believe catch-cans are "snake oil" because their engine didn't blow up after 100K miles without one. They certainly can't hurt, and they do catch oil that would otherwise go directly into the intake manifold - I'd rather have the oil in the can instead of in the intake manifold. To me that's a plus regardless if you can tell any difference in the way the engine runs or not. I would think a catch-can would be even more beneficial on a DI engine where the intake valve isn't washed with fuel every time the injector sprays on the intake stroke.
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
It's looking like you guys better do this. He shows you what the valves look like after 20,000 miles and they're filthy without the catch can.
LOL. Nope, no thanks, no snake oil for me. Cans do nothing for valve deposits. Ask the VW/Audi guys who found out they do nothing. I've got 105k on one EB 3.5 and 76k on the other, no cans, no performance problems.
We went round and round with this nonsense on one of the F150 boards years ago. The can vendor was unable so supply any data to back up their claims and even no pictures of his valves on his shop vehicle that "had a can on from day 1"..... Lots of wild accusations about how the EB's PCV system was "defective" but no hard data to back it up. No thanks - snake oil by any other name is still snake oil.
The VW/Audi guys know that can or no can makes no difference, it's the venting that's the key.
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
It's looking like you guys better do this. He shows you what the valves look like after 20,000 miles and they're filthy without the catch can.
LOL. Nope, no thanks, no snake oil for me. Cans do nothing for valve deposits. Ask the VW/Audi guys who found out they do nothing. I've got 105k on one EB 3.5 and 76k on the other, no cans, no performance problems.
We went round and round with this nonsense on one of the F150 boards years ago. The can vendor was unable so supply any data to back up their claims and even no pictures of his valves on his shop vehicle that "had a can on from day 1"..... Lots of wild accusations about how the EB's PCV system was "defective" but no hard data to back it up. No thanks - snake oil by any other name is still snake oil.
The VW/Audi guys know that can or no can makes no difference, it's the venting that's the key.
Originally Posted By: Olas
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
It's looking like you guys better do this. He shows you what the valves look like after 20,000 miles and they're filthy without the catch can.
LOL. Nope, no thanks, no snake oil for me. Cans do nothing for valve deposits. Ask the VW/Audi guys who found out they do nothing. I've got 105k on one EB 3.5 and 76k on the other, no cans, no performance problems.
We went round and round with this nonsense on one of the F150 boards years ago. The can vendor was unable so supply any data to back up their claims and even no pictures of his valves on his shop vehicle that "had a can on from day 1"..... Lots of wild accusations about how the EB's PCV system was "defective" but no hard data to back it up. No thanks - snake oil by any other name is still snake oil.
The VW/Audi guys know that can or no can makes no difference, it's the venting that's the key.
So there's no benefit at all?
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
It's looking like you guys better do this. He shows you what the valves look like after 20,000 miles and they're filthy without the catch can.
LOL. Nope, no thanks, no snake oil for me. Cans do nothing for valve deposits. Ask the VW/Audi guys who found out they do nothing. I've got 105k on one EB 3.5 and 76k on the other, no cans, no performance problems.
We went round and round with this nonsense on one of the F150 boards years ago. The can vendor was unable so supply any data to back up their claims and even no pictures of his valves on his shop vehicle that "had a can on from day 1"..... Lots of wild accusations about how the EB's PCV system was "defective" but no hard data to back it up. No thanks - snake oil by any other name is still snake oil.
The VW/Audi guys know that can or no can makes no difference, it's the venting that's the key.
So there's no benefit at all?
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
Venting to where ?
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
So there's no benefit at all?
Probably on race engines which 99.9% of people are not running.
Like I said, I went on and on with the guy selling the miracle cans. He claimed the PCV system of the EB 3.5 was defective and the can would cure all sorts of ills with the Ecoboosts. It would increase MPG, cure the condensation shudder, add HP, and eliminate the deposits. When pressed for data (before/after dyno runs), he had none (he owned a speed shop). When pressed he stated his shop vehicle with the EB had one on since day 1. When pressed for intake pics there were none. Lots of pics of OTHER carbone'ed up engines' valves and none of the EB 3.5. IOW no data to back up the claims.
I'm at 105k on the SHO and no can. Not huge mileage but according to the vendors my engine should be barely running by now. Still starts up immediately, runs like a scalded cat and idles buttery smooth and MPG's are consistent from day 1 (I have records) If I have deposits I don't care as there is little effect at all on the day to day operation of the engine. And all this on a diet of 5w20 to boot (the '10's spec'ed 5w20)
So there's no benefit at all?
Probably on race engines which 99.9% of people are not running.
Like I said, I went on and on with the guy selling the miracle cans. He claimed the PCV system of the EB 3.5 was defective and the can would cure all sorts of ills with the Ecoboosts. It would increase MPG, cure the condensation shudder, add HP, and eliminate the deposits. When pressed for data (before/after dyno runs), he had none (he owned a speed shop). When pressed he stated his shop vehicle with the EB had one on since day 1. When pressed for intake pics there were none. Lots of pics of OTHER carbone'ed up engines' valves and none of the EB 3.5. IOW no data to back up the claims.
I'm at 105k on the SHO and no can. Not huge mileage but according to the vendors my engine should be barely running by now. Still starts up immediately, runs like a scalded cat and idles buttery smooth and MPG's are consistent from day 1 (I have records) If I have deposits I don't care as there is little effect at all on the day to day operation of the engine. And all this on a diet of 5w20 to boot (the '10's spec'ed 5w20)
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wemay
Site Donor 2023
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
So there's no benefit at all?
Probably on race engines which 99.9% of people are not running.
Like I said, I went on and on with the guy selling the miracle cans. He claimed the PCV system of the EB 3.5 was defective and the can would cure all sorts of ills with the Ecoboosts. It would increase MPG, cure the condensation shudder, add HP, and eliminate the deposits. When pressed for data (before/after dyno runs), he had none (he owned a speed shop). When pressed he stated his shop vehicle with the EB had one on since day 1. When pressed for intake pics there were none. Lots of pics of OTHER carbone'ed up engines' valves and none of the EB 3.5. IOW no data to back up the claims.
I'm at 105k on the SHO and no can. Not huge mileage but according to the vendors my engine should be barely running by now. Still starts up immediately, runs like a scalded cat and idles buttery smooth and MPG's are consistent from day 1 (I have records) If I have deposits I don't care as there is little effect at all on the day to day operation of the engine. And all this on a diet of 5w20 to boot (the '10's spec'ed 5w20)
Excactly.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
So there's no benefit at all?
Probably on race engines which 99.9% of people are not running.
Like I said, I went on and on with the guy selling the miracle cans. He claimed the PCV system of the EB 3.5 was defective and the can would cure all sorts of ills with the Ecoboosts. It would increase MPG, cure the condensation shudder, add HP, and eliminate the deposits. When pressed for data (before/after dyno runs), he had none (he owned a speed shop). When pressed he stated his shop vehicle with the EB had one on since day 1. When pressed for intake pics there were none. Lots of pics of OTHER carbone'ed up engines' valves and none of the EB 3.5. IOW no data to back up the claims.
I'm at 105k on the SHO and no can. Not huge mileage but according to the vendors my engine should be barely running by now. Still starts up immediately, runs like a scalded cat and idles buttery smooth and MPG's are consistent from day 1 (I have records) If I have deposits I don't care as there is little effect at all on the day to day operation of the engine. And all this on a diet of 5w20 to boot (the '10's spec'ed 5w20)
Excactly.
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
So there's no benefit at all?
Probably on race engines which 99.9% of people are not running.
Like I said, I went on and on with the guy selling the miracle cans. He claimed the PCV system of the EB 3.5 was defective and the can would cure all sorts of ills with the Ecoboosts. It would increase MPG, cure the condensation shudder, add HP, and eliminate the deposits. When pressed for data (before/after dyno runs), he had none (he owned a speed shop). When pressed he stated his shop vehicle with the EB had one on since day 1. When pressed for intake pics there were none. Lots of pics of OTHER carbone'ed up engines' valves and none of the EB 3.5. IOW no data to back up the claims.
I'm at 105k on the SHO and no can. Not huge mileage but according to the vendors my engine should be barely running by now. Still starts up immediately, runs like a scalded cat and idles buttery smooth and MPG's are consistent from day 1 (I have records) If I have deposits I don't care as there is little effect at all on the day to day operation of the engine. And all this on a diet of 5w20 to boot (the '10's spec'ed 5w20)
I was toying around with the idea of installing one. I read all the pros and cons and decided against it. I don't have a DI engine, but in over 40 years of car ownership I never had problems with valve deposits, at least none that I was aware of.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
So there's no benefit at all?
Probably on race engines which 99.9% of people are not running.
Like I said, I went on and on with the guy selling the miracle cans. He claimed the PCV system of the EB 3.5 was defective and the can would cure all sorts of ills with the Ecoboosts. It would increase MPG, cure the condensation shudder, add HP, and eliminate the deposits. When pressed for data (before/after dyno runs), he had none (he owned a speed shop). When pressed he stated his shop vehicle with the EB had one on since day 1. When pressed for intake pics there were none. Lots of pics of OTHER carbone'ed up engines' valves and none of the EB 3.5. IOW no data to back up the claims.
I'm at 105k on the SHO and no can. Not huge mileage but according to the vendors my engine should be barely running by now. Still starts up immediately, runs like a scalded cat and idles buttery smooth and MPG's are consistent from day 1 (I have records) If I have deposits I don't care as there is little effect at all on the day to day operation of the engine. And all this on a diet of 5w20 to boot (the '10's spec'ed 5w20)
I was toying around with the idea of installing one. I read all the pros and cons and decided against it. I don't have a DI engine, but in over 40 years of car ownership I never had problems with valve deposits, at least none that I was aware of.
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
So there's no benefit at all?
Probably on race engines which 99.9% of people are not running.
Like I said, I went on and on with the guy selling the miracle cans. He claimed the PCV system of the EB 3.5 was defective and the can would cure all sorts of ills with the Ecoboosts. It would increase MPG, cure the condensation shudder, add HP, and eliminate the deposits. When pressed for data (before/after dyno runs), he had none (he owned a speed shop). When pressed he stated his shop vehicle with the EB had one on since day 1. When pressed for intake pics there were none. Lots of pics of OTHER carbone'ed up engines' valves and none of the EB 3.5. IOW no data to back up the claims.
I'm at 105k on the SHO and no can. Not huge mileage but according to the vendors my engine should be barely running by now. Still starts up immediately, runs like a scalded cat and idles buttery smooth and MPG's are consistent from day 1 (I have records) If I have deposits I don't care as there is little effect at all on the day to day operation of the engine. And all this on a diet of 5w20 to boot (the '10's spec'ed 5w20)
No data to back up claims? THE HORROR!
Where have you been? No data to back up claims is pretty much the rule, and applies to much more basic issues like thin versus thick oil, synthetic versus mineral, etc, etc.
In the absence of data you have to ask yourself what's intuitively reasonable.
Is it intuitively reasonable that a catch can can catch? I think it is.
This is not to say that a VENDORS claims should be accepted uncritically, but the fact that someone is selling something doesn't prove its snake oil.
Its a pretty simple device, so not hard to understand or to make.
I don't particularly need one, since I've not got a turbo, but I did have some tar in my carb when I stripped it and I might eventually get around to rigging something.
Like someone above said, can't hurt, unless you've got data to back up a claim that it can.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
So there's no benefit at all?
Probably on race engines which 99.9% of people are not running.
Like I said, I went on and on with the guy selling the miracle cans. He claimed the PCV system of the EB 3.5 was defective and the can would cure all sorts of ills with the Ecoboosts. It would increase MPG, cure the condensation shudder, add HP, and eliminate the deposits. When pressed for data (before/after dyno runs), he had none (he owned a speed shop). When pressed he stated his shop vehicle with the EB had one on since day 1. When pressed for intake pics there were none. Lots of pics of OTHER carbone'ed up engines' valves and none of the EB 3.5. IOW no data to back up the claims.
I'm at 105k on the SHO and no can. Not huge mileage but according to the vendors my engine should be barely running by now. Still starts up immediately, runs like a scalded cat and idles buttery smooth and MPG's are consistent from day 1 (I have records) If I have deposits I don't care as there is little effect at all on the day to day operation of the engine. And all this on a diet of 5w20 to boot (the '10's spec'ed 5w20)
No data to back up claims? THE HORROR!
Where have you been? No data to back up claims is pretty much the rule, and applies to much more basic issues like thin versus thick oil, synthetic versus mineral, etc, etc.
In the absence of data you have to ask yourself what's intuitively reasonable.
Is it intuitively reasonable that a catch can can catch? I think it is.
This is not to say that a VENDORS claims should be accepted uncritically, but the fact that someone is selling something doesn't prove its snake oil.
Its a pretty simple device, so not hard to understand or to make.
I don't particularly need one, since I've not got a turbo, but I did have some tar in my carb when I stripped it and I might eventually get around to rigging something.
Like someone above said, can't hurt, unless you've got data to back up a claim that it can.
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