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#4252284 - 11/18/16 05:08 PM 2014 Ram 3500 Cummins 6.7L UOA
Shorthorn Offline


Registered: 03/25/10
Posts: 35
Loc: Bonfield, IL
Group,

Just got back my first UOA from Blackstone and I am concerned with the wear metals, potassium, and silicon presence as noted.

Truck had 38,000 on it at the time of the sample. Oil had 6800 miles on it. Had Standard Shell Rotella T oil in it (15W-40)

I did add in a quick oil change valve in place of the drain pan bolt so from here out I can pull a sample without draining the oil.

Anyone else with a newer Cummins seeing similar results? Perhaps Blackstone's target Averages are wrong?

"Comments: There is some excess metal here. Aluminum typically shows piston wear and iron is from steel parts. Copper shows brass / bronze wear. Potassium can show coolant, but we sometimes see potassium and aluminum in new diesels, probably from the intercooler or maybe emissions parts. Thats not going to explain the iron and copper though. Even though the TBN is fine at 5.3, a shorter run is recommended until we get some idea of which direction these metals are heading. Check back in 5,000 miles or so."

Element: Amount found: Universal Average:
Aluminum 9 3
Chromium 1 1
Iron 65 24
Copper 20 7
Lead 0 1
Tin 0 1
Molybdenum 60 34
Nickel 0 0
Manganese 1 1
Silver 0 0
Titanium 0 2
Potassium 26 8
Boron 106 50
Silicon 10 5
Calcium 1591 1657
Magnesium 433 584
Phosphorus 935 1027
Zinc 1166 1219
Barium 0 0

SUS Viscosity 74.8 69-80
cSt Viscosity 14.20 12.7-15.8
Flashpoint 430 >410
Fuel % <0.5 <2.0
Antifreeze % ? 0
Water % 0 0
Insolubles % 0.3 <0.6
TBN 5.3 >1.0
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#4252318 - 11/18/16 06:00 PM Re: 2014 Ram 3500 Cummins 6.7L UOA [Re: Shorthorn]
dustyroads Offline


Registered: 05/13/13
Posts: 864
Loc: upstate NY
Hey Shorthorn, nothing to fear in this report. With only 38k miles on the engine, you need to give it a little longer to get sorted out. I don't see anything bad at all. Give it a few more oci's for everything to get normalized.

I just learned this year about aluminum and potassium showing up in uoa's in the early oci's. They are both leached from the brazing flux compound inside the intercooler. I had never run uoa's on my new trucks until I got a few oci's finished, so it was news to me.

The iron is higher than averages but give it time to settle in. By the way, you forgot to list the sodium. smile FWIW, that looks like Mobil Delvac oil.

Edit-the little bit of copper is most likely the final leftover from oil cooler leaching. Pretend Blackstone never mentioned it for now. Again, give it a little more time.


Edited by dustyroads (11/18/16 06:08 PM)
_________________________
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#4252372 - 11/18/16 07:01 PM Re: 2014 Ram 3500 Cummins 6.7L UOA [Re: Shorthorn]
CT8 Offline


Registered: 10/09/14
Posts: 8096
Loc: Moving,not there yet.
How do you run it? Any mods?

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#4252405 - 11/18/16 07:43 PM Re: 2014 Ram 3500 Cummins 6.7L UOA [Re: Shorthorn]
Shorthorn Offline


Registered: 03/25/10
Posts: 35
Loc: Bonfield, IL
Thanks Dusty... I think your words calmed me down enough to back off the ledge! I agree one data point is just that... one point.

Since I can sample without draining, I intend to run another analysis around 5k and see what we get.

As for how I run it... the truck spends 75% of its life connected to our 40' fifth wheel camper... towing down the highway.

Truck is factory stock... no mods.
_________________________
2014 Ram 3500 CCLB Dually 4x4 Cummins 370HP/800FTLBs
2016 Coachmen Chaparral 360IBL
2014 Dodge Grand Caravan SE 30th Anniversary

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#4252415 - 11/18/16 07:54 PM Re: 2014 Ram 3500 Cummins 6.7L UOA [Re: Shorthorn]
Donald Offline


Registered: 03/21/04
Posts: 18047
Loc: Upstate NY
The iron is higher than I would like to see. Your silicon is low so its not dirt in the oil causing the high iron.

I feel the engine should be broken in at your mileage. So it's not break-in wear contaminants.

The copper is a oil cooler, I assume it has one.

I would move up to T6. On sale at NAPA now. It's not that much more than T.
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#4252437 - 11/18/16 08:28 PM Re: 2014 Ram 3500 Cummins 6.7L UOA [Re: Shorthorn]
motor_oil_madman Offline


Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 3200
Loc: Houston, Texas
Probably a leaking egr cooler. Are you losing coolant?
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#4252588 - 11/19/16 03:41 AM Re: 2014 Ram 3500 Cummins 6.7L UOA [Re: motor_oil_madman]
Shorthorn Offline


Registered: 03/25/10
Posts: 35
Loc: Bonfield, IL
Thank you motor man... I have not lost any coolant that I can detect.
_________________________
2014 Ram 3500 CCLB Dually 4x4 Cummins 370HP/800FTLBs
2016 Coachmen Chaparral 360IBL
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#4253134 - 11/19/16 07:01 PM Re: 2014 Ram 3500 Cummins 6.7L UOA [Re: Shorthorn]
userfriendly Offline


Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2040
Loc: LaFinDuMonde
You prolly have 3 quarts of oil left in your engine which will turn your new oil black in 10 miles.
Parked on a grade plus an hour of drip time might yield another quart in the drain bucket.
That and a 5,000 mile drain interval with T3 should do the trick.
What's so good about Bonfield?

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#4253352 - 11/20/16 05:50 AM Re: 2014 Ram 3500 Cummins 6.7L UOA [Re: Shorthorn]
Shorthorn Offline


Registered: 03/25/10
Posts: 35
Loc: Bonfield, IL
User.... I have no idea what you are talking about...
_________________________
2014 Ram 3500 CCLB Dually 4x4 Cummins 370HP/800FTLBs
2016 Coachmen Chaparral 360IBL
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#4301408 - 01/13/17 01:52 PM Re: 2014 Ram 3500 Cummins 6.7L UOA [Re: Shorthorn]
Shorthorn Offline


Registered: 03/25/10
Posts: 35
Loc: Bonfield, IL
Just an update... I pulled a sample on this truck at another 6k miles.. Oil was Rotella T6, Fleetgard Stratopore filter...

Big improvement in iron and copper so they suspect lingering wear in material. I am suspecting the Previous owner didn't change oil enough.

I am going to change oil again now (even though there is plenty of TBN availible) to see if I can keep flushing the trash out of this motor... Should I consider doing an engine flush?

I will put Rotella T6 and a Stratopore filter back in.

Element: 1/2/17: 8/24/16: Average:
Aluminum 10 9 3
Chromium 1 1 1
Iron 28 65 24
Copper 4 20 7
Lead 1 0 1
Tin 0 0 1
Molybdenum 59 60 60
Nickel 0 0 0
Manganese 0 1 1
Silver 0 0 0
Titanium 0 0 0
Potassium 31 26 8
Boron 45 106 50
Silicon 15 10 5
Sodium 4 5 5
Calcium 808 1591 1657
Magnesium 1023 433 584
Phosphorus 951 935 1027
Zinc 1142 1166 1219
Barium 0 0 0

SUS Viscosity 71.1 74.8 69-80
cSt Viscosity 13.25 14.20 12.7-15.8
Flashpoint 440 430 >410
Fuel % <0.5 <0.5 <2.0
Antifreeze % 0 ? 0
Water % 0 0 0
Insolubles % 0.3 0.3 <0.6
TBN 6.5 5.3 >1.0
_________________________
2014 Ram 3500 CCLB Dually 4x4 Cummins 370HP/800FTLBs
2016 Coachmen Chaparral 360IBL
2014 Dodge Grand Caravan SE 30th Anniversary

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#4302132 - 01/14/17 12:07 PM Re: 2014 Ram 3500 Cummins 6.7L UOA [Re: Shorthorn]
dustyroads Offline


Registered: 05/13/13
Posts: 864
Loc: upstate NY
Hey Shorthorn, it's looking better. I wouldn't do an engine flush, no need whatsoever. I wouldn't even change the oil, yet. Maybe consider another season of pulling the camper.

My only concern is the silicon. It's a bit on the high side, at least for so few miles. Unless you've been messing around with the air filter to stir things up, I would check all the plumbing to make sure that there aren't any cracks or loose clamps. Otherwise, the oil is in great condition.

Edit- it's possible that the silicon is causing the higher than average aluminum.


Edited by dustyroads (01/14/17 12:10 PM)
_________________________
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#4305321 - 01/17/17 05:12 PM Re: 2014 Ram 3500 Cummins 6.7L UOA [Re: Shorthorn]
Shorthorn Offline


Registered: 03/25/10
Posts: 35
Loc: Bonfield, IL
Thanks Dusty! I appreciate your response.

I did remove the intake to install a block heater not long ago.. I am going to double check all my clamps.. thats a great point.
_________________________
2014 Ram 3500 CCLB Dually 4x4 Cummins 370HP/800FTLBs
2016 Coachmen Chaparral 360IBL
2014 Dodge Grand Caravan SE 30th Anniversary

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