Oil Consumption on Honda J37 Engine

[artbuc]

So, Honda finally came out with this bulletin. Sounds like a load to me and who wants a car after the dealer has replaced rings. Surely it would be cheaper to replace the short block? Also, if Honda belives carbon build-up is causing stuck rings, why would they not give advice on how to prevent or minimize carbon build-up?

http://www.mdxers.org/forums/attachments...nsumptionv3.pdf

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: artbuc
So, Honda finally came out with this bulletin. Sounds like a load to me and who wants a car after the dealer has replaced rings. Surely it would be cheaper to replace the short block? Also, if Honda belives carbon build-up is causing stuck rings, why would they not give advice on how to prevent or minimize carbon build-up?

http://www.mdxers.org/forums/attachments...nsumptionv3.pdf


They might not be giving advice on minimizing carbon build up because they might not have found a way that works for them.

 

[UltrafanUK]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: artbuc
So, Honda finally came out with this bulletin. Sounds like a load to me and who wants a car after the dealer has replaced rings. Surely it would be cheaper to replace the short block? Also, if Honda belives carbon build-up is causing stuck rings, why would they not give advice on how to prevent or minimize carbon build-up?

http://www.mdxers.org/forums/attachments...nsumptionv3.pdf


They might not be giving advice on minimizing carbon build up because they might not have found a way that works for them.

They probably don't want to say much about piston soaks or spraying water into the intake whilst the engine is running (DYOR and be careful), cos lots of afflicted owners would insist their engines are de-coked.
The present rather short PDF also seems designed to make money from out of warranty owners.

If the rings are broken, the cause is probably too long and OCI, poor oil choice (Lack of anti wear additives in particular) or the fact that many newer engines use higher ring pressures to allow the use of thinner oils (VW are not too bad in that respect) and most of them still use the same ring and cylinder liners (Not all engines have liners). The result of the higher ring to cylinder pressures needed to keep the oil consumption within the common 1 liter per 1000 miles warranty limit is simply increased wear rates (Mostly Iron and Chrome in a UOA).

 

[Trav]

They omit that this is the flaky IVTEC system coming back to bite them and the consumer in the backside once again.

Put a muzzler (disables the system) on it and prevent this issue once and for all.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Trav
They omit that this is the flaky IVTEC system coming back to bite them and the consumer in the backside once again.

Put a muzzler (disables the system) on it and prevent this issue once and for all.


And there you have it, I didn't want to open that can of worms. LOL

 

[gregk24]

Originally Posted By: Trav
They omit that this is the flaky IVTEC system coming back to bite them and the consumer in the backside once again.

Put a muzzler (disables the system) on it and prevent this issue once and for all.


Do you mean VCM? Honda's VTEC and iVTEC system's have been around for quite a while and have proven reliable.

 

[Andrew1972]

Originally Posted By: Trav
They omit that this is the flaky IVTEC system coming back to bite them and the consumer in the backside once again.

Put a muzzler (disables the system) on it and prevent this issue once and for all.


WRONG, this motor is >>>>VTEC
Some how I have missed the issue in my 2007 MDX but maybe something changed in 2010 or they remain in Acura 7yr 70k power train so they need a bulletin.

 

[Eddie]

Dang, this covers some engines from 2009 to 2014. I was interested in an RDX but, will pull back now to see if they finally corrected this problem. Ed

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: Trav
They omit that this is the flaky IVTEC system coming back to bite them and the consumer in the backside once again.

Put a muzzler (disables the system) on it and prevent this issue once and for all.


Trav...the J37 never had the VCM system. In fact, no Acura did until the 2014 MDX.

This is unfortunate for J37 owners. Honda may have done with the J37 what Cadillac did with the Northstar. Cadillac used a very low-tension ring in the Northstar engine, which worked great when the engine was run hard and fast. But, when loped around town (as many Cadillac owners would do), they'd stick up and cause excessive oil consumption. The 2001 STS that I once owned had the rings and pistons replaced earlier in its life, before I bought it. It happens.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: Eddie
Dang, this covers some engines from 2009 to 2014. I was interested in an RDX but, will pull back now to see if they finally corrected this problem. Ed


This applies to the "odd-ball" aluminum bore J37 only. The RDX didn't have this engine. I say "odd-ball" because the J37 used a type of aluminum cylinder liner unique to Honda engines. Their 4-cylinders and J35 engines don't have this type of cylinder liner. They have more conventional steel liners to my knowledge.

 

[Trav]

No idea what the exact models are so I take your word for it. There was a guy on here with VCM issues on a 3.7 but anyway if its not IVTEC that's even worse, it means Honda made a real POS engine even without VCM.

Originally Posted By: grag24
Do you mean VCM? Honda's VTEC and iVTEC system's have been around for quite a while and have proven reliable.

AFAIK on the V6 only the ones with VCM were designated IVTEC. The VCM has proven to be the biggest POS ever foisted on the consumer, its as unreliable as it gets until this engine anyway. True the 4 bangers don't seem to have any problems with it.
Quote:
Variable Cylinder Management (VCM) is Honda's term for its variable displacement technology, which saves fuel by using the i-VTEC system to disable one bank of cylinders during specific driving conditions

 

[ZebRuaj]

Originally Posted By: artbuc
So, Honda finally came out with this bulletin. Sounds like a load to me and who wants a car after the dealer has replaced rings. Surely it would be cheaper to replace the short block? Also, if Honda belives carbon build-up is causing stuck rings, why would they not give advice on how to prevent or minimize carbon build-up?

http://www.mdxers.org/forums/attachments...nsumptionv3.pdf


Check out any Honda/Acura car forums and you'll find a lot of angry owners with the J series motor. There were quite a few owners of the last gen TL with the J37 fighting Acura to get some sort of acknowledgement and support for oil consumption. Wonder if this will make its way over to the TL.

The K24 in my previous 2nd gen TSX got a warranty extension due to oil consumption too .. but for most owners, their car was too old or was already over the acceptable mileage, and that's if you didn't have to fight the documentation needed to get approved.

Good luck to anyone trying to get dealer support if they got a lemon motor.

 

[artbuc]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: Eddie
Dang, this covers some engines from 2009 to 2014. I was interested in an RDX but, will pull back now to see if they finally corrected this problem. Ed


This applies to the "odd-ball" aluminum bore J37 only. The RDX didn't have this engine. I say "odd-ball" because the J37 used a type of aluminum cylinder liner unique to Honda engines. Their 4-cylinders and J35 engines don't have this type of cylinder liner. They have more conventional steel liners to my knowledge.


Yes, I believe this is the root cause as problem went away after Honda abandoned these liners which, just a few years ago, were highly touted by Honda as the best thing since sliced bread.

As others have posted, the J37 is not VCM.

 

[artbuc]

Originally Posted By: ZebRuaj
Originally Posted By: artbuc
So, Honda finally came out with this bulletin. Sounds like a load to me and who wants a car after the dealer has replaced rings. Surely it would be cheaper to replace the short block? Also, if Honda belives carbon build-up is causing stuck rings, why would they not give advice on how to prevent or minimize carbon build-up?

http://www.mdxers.org/forums/attachments...nsumptionv3.pdf


Check out any Honda/Acura car forums and you'll find a lot of angry owners with the J series motor. There were quite a few owners of the last gen TL with the J37 fighting Acura to get some sort of acknowledgement and support for oil consumption. Wonder if this will make its way over to the TL.

The K24 in my previous 2nd gen TSX got a warranty extension due to oil consumption too .. but for most owners, their car was too old or was already over the acceptable mileage, and that's if you didn't have to fight the documentation needed to get approved.

Good luck to anyone trying to get dealer support if they got a lemon motor.


Yes, I am active on that forum but there is much more mechanical and technical expertise here.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: Trav
They omit that this is the flaky IVTEC system coming back to bite them and the consumer in the backside once again.

Put a muzzler (disables the system) on it and prevent this issue once and for all.


Trav...the J37 never had the VCM system. In fact, no Acura did until the 2014 MDX.

This is unfortunate for J37 owners. Honda may have done with the J37 what Cadillac did with the Northstar. Cadillac used a very low-tension ring in the Northstar engine, which worked great when the engine was run hard and fast. But, when loped around town (as many Cadillac owners would do), they'd stick up and cause excessive oil consumption. The 2001 STS that I once owned had the rings and pistons replaced earlier in its life, before I bought it. It happens.


Thanks for that info Hokiefyd I never got into the Acura lineup as the brand doesn't exist outside of NA. I read something about aluminum liners and probably like you say low tension rings. The iron liner J engines were great engines with no VCM, what were they thinking about when they this to a well proven product.

 

[Hokiefyd]

i-VTEC is a term that Honda has used that doesn't mean any one thing. All K24 engines have i-VTEC and, in that application, it means the engine has cam phasers which add "intelligence" to the system. None of the V-6 engines use cam phasers, i-VTEC or otherwise. In the V-6 application, i-VTEC means it has the cylinder deactivation system. It seems to be a term that means there's something, anything, going on above and beyond the basic VTEC mechanism, a la the non-VCM J-series engines. I've never seen the term i-VTEC associated with a J37 engine.

I'm sure there's an upside to these odd aluminum cylinder liners (they were probably vetted before they were chosen to be used in the engine), but, in practice, they didn't work out as well as hoped.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: Trav
The iron liner J engines were great engines with no VCM, what were they thinking about when they this to a well proven product.


The J-series is really what started my interest in Honda products -- our Acura MDX has an excellent example of this engine (a standard J35) and our Ridgeline does as well. My folks have a 2014 MDX with a VCM J35 and they haven't had any problems with it yet (60k miles), but time will tell.

In truth, I'm personally waiting for Honda to come out with a completely different V-6 engine. The J-series is only their second V-6, and they've been nursing it since the late 1990s. It's nearly 20 years old now. Venerable basic design, yes, but it's probably time to move on, Honda.

 

[Trav]

Honda has dropped all V6 engines in Germany except for the Honda NSX only a few models remain in the line up the largest engine offered is a 2.0, the last Honda 3.7 sold there had IVTEC right on the engine cover. Different market = different engine maybe.

 

[Andrew1972]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Honda has dropped all V6 engines in Germany except for the Honda NSX only a few models remain in the line up the largest engine offered is a 2.0, the last Honda 3.7 sold there had IVTEC right on the engine cover. Different market = different engine maybe.



I think you mean last Honda 3.5 . The J37 is North American specific engine a fuel pig and lacks iVTEC and VCM. It's the most powerful J series. My 07 MDX with J37 averages 18.5 MPG but besides is a rewarding engine to drive all around. Not a single complaint except maybe the $600 spent on timing belt and thrist.

 

[Trav]

I cant swear to it as it was a few year yeas ago but IIRC it was a 3.7 it may have been dealer imported grey market vehicle but that I don't know. If you say it was a US only engine with no IVTEC then it probably was a 3.5.