All cars are reliable now, other than a few oddballs it's tough to find a bad one. I've had mostly GM and Chrysler, none have ever needed to go back for warranty work. Ten years ago if you told me I would be a Buick fan, I wouldn't believe you! Buick is a really nice car, I enjoyed my 2011 Regal.
Buick Up, Honda And Subaru Down, Says Consumer Rep
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That's not true, they weigh different failures differently. Major engine failure weighs heavily compared to infotainment problems. Read their explanation of how they come up with the ratings.
Most of what Consumer Reports does is irrelevant today, and their data (especially where vehicles are concerned) is too noisy to be relevant. That's why in 2011 Audi ranked 24th in reliability, and in 2012 Audi ranked 8th in reliability. A jump of 17 spots in just 1 year? I highly doubt it.
Consumer Reports doesn't draw their data from the general public, only from their subscribers (not a representative sample). They also claim to have no bias, but their articles prove otherwise. Just because there is no advertising doesn't mean there isn't a bias.
Consumer Reports doesn't draw their data from the general public, only from their subscribers (not a representative sample). They also claim to have no bias, but their articles prove otherwise. Just because there is no advertising doesn't mean there isn't a bias.
Originally Posted By: ryanschillinger
That's not true, they weigh different failures differently. Major engine failure weighs heavily compared to infotainment problems. Read their explanation of how they come up with the ratings.
These days many would consider an infotainment problem to be worse than a drivetrain problem. What's that funny rattling/banging noise? Still runs, can't be bad. Can't get my iDevice to connect? Whoa, can't drive this clunker anyplace--time for a new car.
That's not true, they weigh different failures differently. Major engine failure weighs heavily compared to infotainment problems. Read their explanation of how they come up with the ratings.
These days many would consider an infotainment problem to be worse than a drivetrain problem. What's that funny rattling/banging noise? Still runs, can't be bad. Can't get my iDevice to connect? Whoa, can't drive this clunker anyplace--time for a new car.
Originally Posted By: 4WD
In my mind - unless the plant was better - so many parts were the same. Could it be more mature drivers? Even the popular CUV has been leaning somewhat middle age. Still a younger group to work on? My 3 sons have run the big 3 hard - just no Buicks interested them.
Me? Time for an Enclave update and I'll go test drive ...
I think age has a lot to do with it. A Buick driver is likely to follow the scheduled maintenance and not drive like a bat out of [censored]. I think the same holds true for Toyota. Having said that my Avalon has 120,000 without a single problem. Everyone I know with a GM has had problems unrelated to hard driving. So it is a bit of both.
In my mind - unless the plant was better - so many parts were the same. Could it be more mature drivers? Even the popular CUV has been leaning somewhat middle age. Still a younger group to work on? My 3 sons have run the big 3 hard - just no Buicks interested them.
Me? Time for an Enclave update and I'll go test drive ...
I think age has a lot to do with it. A Buick driver is likely to follow the scheduled maintenance and not drive like a bat out of [censored]. I think the same holds true for Toyota. Having said that my Avalon has 120,000 without a single problem. Everyone I know with a GM has had problems unrelated to hard driving. So it is a bit of both.
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: itguy08
And FCA still bringing up the bottom of the pack as they have for their entire history, from Chrysler to Dodge to Jeep and Ram with Fiat thrown in for good measure.
Surprising that the Civic also got pushed off the recommended list.
And yet my 2015 FCA RAM has had 1/4 issues of my last new GM product. My wife's 7 year old Focus has had less issue than the Tahoe I owned for 17 months.
Coming up on 9 years and not even a hiccup in my Liberty. My fingers remain crossed.
Originally Posted By: itguy08
And FCA still bringing up the bottom of the pack as they have for their entire history, from Chrysler to Dodge to Jeep and Ram with Fiat thrown in for good measure.
Surprising that the Civic also got pushed off the recommended list.
And yet my 2015 FCA RAM has had 1/4 issues of my last new GM product. My wife's 7 year old Focus has had less issue than the Tahoe I owned for 17 months.
Coming up on 9 years and not even a hiccup in my Liberty. My fingers remain crossed.
Originally Posted By: Marco620
CR has little credibility for me. In the paint section Behr paint is the number 1. Seems they use price point something fierce to choose. My CR is me going out and do my own research and I will figure it out without someone else telling me what to do or buy. I guess Buick could be beating Subaru or Honda.I mean Honda fell slighty from the top and Buick rose slightly from the very bottom.
The rankings are based purely on performance, then they will pick Best Buys from the better performing items that are also lower in price.
I seem to recall that models like Ariens ranked very well in CR when I was looking at snowblowers, but they'd never be Best Buys because they were 3X the price of some MTDs or whatever that performed nearly as well in their tests. You can probably guess that the Ariens is going to be rock solid all metal construction, but I've gotten 20 years out of a Yardman that has way too much plastic in it.
CR has little credibility for me. In the paint section Behr paint is the number 1. Seems they use price point something fierce to choose. My CR is me going out and do my own research and I will figure it out without someone else telling me what to do or buy. I guess Buick could be beating Subaru or Honda.I mean Honda fell slighty from the top and Buick rose slightly from the very bottom.
The rankings are based purely on performance, then they will pick Best Buys from the better performing items that are also lower in price.
I seem to recall that models like Ariens ranked very well in CR when I was looking at snowblowers, but they'd never be Best Buys because they were 3X the price of some MTDs or whatever that performed nearly as well in their tests. You can probably guess that the Ariens is going to be rock solid all metal construction, but I've gotten 20 years out of a Yardman that has way too much plastic in it.
Originally Posted By: 4WD
I fly the globe - but grounded by small town values. At a local gathering - talked to a long term GM service guy. He said it was always the case that Buick was more reliable. In my mind - unless the plant was better - so many parts were the same. Could it be more mature drivers? Even the popular CUV has been leaning somewhat middle age. Still a younger group to work on? My 3 sons have run the big 3 hard - just no Buicks interested them.
Me? Time for an Enclave update and I'll go test drive ...
CR suggests Buick did better than other GM brands because they have a small, truck/SUV-free lineup so the troublesome current Escalade/Tahoe models aren't dragging down Buick results. Given the parts commonality it wouldn't be a huge leap to assume GM passenger in general cars are behaving quite well.
I fly the globe - but grounded by small town values. At a local gathering - talked to a long term GM service guy. He said it was always the case that Buick was more reliable. In my mind - unless the plant was better - so many parts were the same. Could it be more mature drivers? Even the popular CUV has been leaning somewhat middle age. Still a younger group to work on? My 3 sons have run the big 3 hard - just no Buicks interested them.
Me? Time for an Enclave update and I'll go test drive ...
CR suggests Buick did better than other GM brands because they have a small, truck/SUV-free lineup so the troublesome current Escalade/Tahoe models aren't dragging down Buick results. Given the parts commonality it wouldn't be a huge leap to assume GM passenger in general cars are behaving quite well.
Originally Posted By: Blueskies123
Originally Posted By: 4WD
In my mind - unless the plant was better - so many parts were the same. Could it be more mature drivers? Even the popular CUV has been leaning somewhat middle age. Still a younger group to work on? My 3 sons have run the big 3 hard - just no Buicks interested them.
Me? Time for an Enclave update and I'll go test drive ...
I think age has a lot to do with it. A Buick driver is likely to follow the scheduled maintenance and not drive like a bat out of [censored]. . . .
+1 on the scheduled maintenance, but not so much on the hard driving -- at least not among the Regal GS owners on Buickforums. To hear those guys tell it, they'd pass the bat from h*ll while still in 3rd gear.
Originally Posted By: 4WD
In my mind - unless the plant was better - so many parts were the same. Could it be more mature drivers? Even the popular CUV has been leaning somewhat middle age. Still a younger group to work on? My 3 sons have run the big 3 hard - just no Buicks interested them.
Me? Time for an Enclave update and I'll go test drive ...
I think age has a lot to do with it. A Buick driver is likely to follow the scheduled maintenance and not drive like a bat out of [censored]. . . .
+1 on the scheduled maintenance, but not so much on the hard driving -- at least not among the Regal GS owners on Buickforums. To hear those guys tell it, they'd pass the bat from h*ll while still in 3rd gear.
Kill the messenger.
Originally Posted By: ryanschillinger
That's not true, they weigh different failures differently. Major engine failure weighs heavily compared to infotainment problems. Read their explanation of how they come up with the ratings.
Where is that at?
That's not true, they weigh different failures differently. Major engine failure weighs heavily compared to infotainment problems. Read their explanation of how they come up with the ratings.
Where is that at?
Consumer Reports is useless for car reviews. As Trump would say...."It's rigged"!
I continue to wonder what CR's "bias" is supposed to be. 10 years ago, when Hondas and Toyotas were all over their ratings, CR was biased. Now that domestic brands are rising and the Honda Civic is not recommended, CR is biased. I can never keep up with the alleged CR bias du jour. Can some of you help me out here?
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
I continue to wonder what CR's "bias" is supposed to be. 10 years ago, when Hondas and Toyotas were all over their ratings, CR was biased. Now that domestic brands are rising and the Honda Civic is not recommended, CR is biased. I can never keep up with the alleged CR bias du jour. Can some of you help me out here?
Its more flawed than biased. Their bias doe show but the data they get, how they manipulate it, and how its added up is secret and been caught in issues they say they will fix but never tell anything beyond that. The whole Chevy/Geo Prizm rating lower then the same year Toyota Corolla was a big one I remembered. Let alone their data ONLY comes from those that pay them and those inside CR means the data is flawed before its even added up.
I continue to wonder what CR's "bias" is supposed to be. 10 years ago, when Hondas and Toyotas were all over their ratings, CR was biased. Now that domestic brands are rising and the Honda Civic is not recommended, CR is biased. I can never keep up with the alleged CR bias du jour. Can some of you help me out here?
Its more flawed than biased. Their bias doe show but the data they get, how they manipulate it, and how its added up is secret and been caught in issues they say they will fix but never tell anything beyond that. The whole Chevy/Geo Prizm rating lower then the same year Toyota Corolla was a big one I remembered. Let alone their data ONLY comes from those that pay them and those inside CR means the data is flawed before its even added up.
Originally Posted By: Jimzz
Its more flawed than biased. Their bias doe show but the data they get, how they manipulate it, and how its added up is secret and been caught in issues they say they will fix but never tell anything beyond that. The whole Chevy/Geo Prizm rating lower then the same year Toyota Corolla was a big one I remembered. Let alone their data ONLY comes from those that pay them and those inside CR means the data is flawed before its even added up.
Yea, there was the same thing with the Pontiac Vibe/Toyota Matrix twins. They were the same car coming off of the same assembly line. They differed only cosmetically. The Toyota rated above average for reliability, the Pontiac average. How can that be? Flawed data. They are not collecting actual reliability data. They are collecting peoples' perception of reliability.
The other flaw is that the data is not confirmed. When I got my invitation to take part in the survey last year, I had to think for a bit which car that I'd never owned, never driven, and probably wouldn't recognize on the street to report on. Then I needed to decide if it was reliable or a POS. Come on BITOG let's bring the Fiat 500 to the top of the reliability survey next year. We can do it!
Yes, only collecting data from their members will introduce some level of confirmation bias.
Ed
Its more flawed than biased. Their bias doe show but the data they get, how they manipulate it, and how its added up is secret and been caught in issues they say they will fix but never tell anything beyond that. The whole Chevy/Geo Prizm rating lower then the same year Toyota Corolla was a big one I remembered. Let alone their data ONLY comes from those that pay them and those inside CR means the data is flawed before its even added up.
Yea, there was the same thing with the Pontiac Vibe/Toyota Matrix twins. They were the same car coming off of the same assembly line. They differed only cosmetically. The Toyota rated above average for reliability, the Pontiac average. How can that be? Flawed data. They are not collecting actual reliability data. They are collecting peoples' perception of reliability.
The other flaw is that the data is not confirmed. When I got my invitation to take part in the survey last year, I had to think for a bit which car that I'd never owned, never driven, and probably wouldn't recognize on the street to report on. Then I needed to decide if it was reliable or a POS. Come on BITOG let's bring the Fiat 500 to the top of the reliability survey next year. We can do it!
Yes, only collecting data from their members will introduce some level of confirmation bias.
Ed
Their explanations on how they arrive at their ratings are on their website and in the magazine.
This sounds like alot of conspiracy stuff against CR. The reason behind the Prizm being slightly lower than the corolla was because they had different AC systems, and the Prizm used the AC Delco setup. It seemed to blow colder, but was more trouble prone.
This sounds like alot of conspiracy stuff against CR. The reason behind the Prizm being slightly lower than the corolla was because they had different AC systems, and the Prizm used the AC Delco setup. It seemed to blow colder, but was more trouble prone.
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I agree the ratings themselves are more flawed than biased especially now with all kinds of infotainment tech. in the mix. I do, however, think their car reviews are becoming more biased. I remember as a kid taking my parents' CR magazines and reading them, not to mention that my parents took the annual surveys very seriously, and it has changed since then. They used to review with reliability, ergonomics, and things like that as the top criteria. Now they seem to be emphasizing outright performance, driving impressions, etc. more than they used to. Even if that's appropriate, the CR I remember as a stalwart of objectivity with a different mission than Car and Driver has changed.
Originally Posted By: ryanschillinger
Their explanations on how they arrive at their ratings are on their website and in the magazine.
This sounds like alot of conspiracy stuff against CR. The reason behind the Prizm being slightly lower than the corolla was because they had different AC systems, and the Prizm used the AC Delco setup. It seemed to blow colder, but was more trouble prone.
No they are not. The give vague "we send out surveys to people that pay us...". They do not list how many responses they get, how they are combined, how they rank them, etc...
And show me where they said the difference was AC only. They did not say that when I saw it; just it was ranked lower overall.
Their explanations on how they arrive at their ratings are on their website and in the magazine.
This sounds like alot of conspiracy stuff against CR. The reason behind the Prizm being slightly lower than the corolla was because they had different AC systems, and the Prizm used the AC Delco setup. It seemed to blow colder, but was more trouble prone.
No they are not. The give vague "we send out surveys to people that pay us...". They do not list how many responses they get, how they are combined, how they rank them, etc...
And show me where they said the difference was AC only. They did not say that when I saw it; just it was ranked lower overall.
Originally Posted By: Blueskies123
I think age has a lot to do with it. A Buick driver is likely to follow the scheduled maintenance and not drive like a bat out of [censored]. I think the same holds true for Toyota. Having said that my Avalon has 120,000 without a single problem. Everyone I know with a GM has had problems unrelated to hard driving. So it is a bit of both.
Who drives Buicks?? OLD PEOPLE How do they drive them?? Oil change every 3000 miles. Service twice a year. How many miles do they rack up a year?
I think age has a lot to do with it. A Buick driver is likely to follow the scheduled maintenance and not drive like a bat out of [censored]. I think the same holds true for Toyota. Having said that my Avalon has 120,000 without a single problem. Everyone I know with a GM has had problems unrelated to hard driving. So it is a bit of both.
Who drives Buicks?? OLD PEOPLE How do they drive them?? Oil change every 3000 miles. Service twice a year. How many miles do they rack up a year?
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