Yes, There Have Been Aliens

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Originally Posted By: Wolf359
Originally Posted By: john_pifer
It's really a numbers game.

How ARROGANT and small-minded would we be...to assume...that, given the SIZE of this galaxy...let alone the known universe...that we are the only civilization to arise.



I think the jury is still out on that one on either end. It's possible that the speed of light is really the limiting factor and while other civilizations may have rose, they may have also fallen, the universe has been around for a little over 13 billion years so the last civilization could have died out millions or billions of years ago.

Or there's the concept of the singularity, once a civilization goes beyond that, maybe they don't care about others. You actually don't even need that concept, may the others just don't care.

Oh and when the Milky way collides with the Andromeda galaxy in about 4 billion years, then assuming Amsoil is still around, there will be distributors in both galaxies.


Oh I don't doubt any of that. Personally, I think we'll find a way around the "speed limit" problem. To support that argument, just look at how far we've come, technologically, just in the last 113 years, since the Wright Bros. first flew. Heck, in just 44 years, starting in 1903, we went from the Wrights, to the flight of the Boeing B-47 Stratojet, predecessor to the 707, the first wildly successful jet airliner, which shrunk the world dramatically, to put it mildly.

It's been said that where there's a will, there's a way. I'm someone who believes that engineers can solve pretty much any problem, given the motivation. If you can imagine it, it can be built.

Great screen name, BTW
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
Yeah, but that's fiction.

Reality is actually sometime more interesting than fiction, the concept of dark energy is pretty fascinating, makes up 68.3% of the universe.


You've just contradicted your own argument. Dark energy is still nothing more than a theory, making it as fictional as any hollyweird movie.

Originally Posted By: john_pifer


Quote:
Instead of asking how many civilizations currently exist, we asked what the probability is that ours is the only technological civilization that has ever appeared.


How ARROGANT and small-minded would we be...to assume...that, given the SIZE of this galaxy...let alone the known universe...that we are the only civilization to arise.


Great! Show me the proof. Until there is irrefutable proof then just like so many other things, it's just a theory. The real small minded ones are those who insist that theory is fact without any evidence whatsoever. Until then it should be met with a healthy dose of skepticism.

What so many people fail to take into account are all of the variables that need to happen in order for life (as we know it) to begin and evolve on another planet. The earth is in the perfect "zone", and had a series of events that made it possible for life to exist and thrive. It's another version of the million monkey theorem; if a million monkeys were typing on a million typewriters for a million years, one of them would produce the complete works of William Shakespeare.

Is it possible? Sure. Is it 100% irrefutable fact? Not by a long shot, and quite probably will not be in either my lifetime or yours.
 
A cubic foot consists of a billion grains of sand (more or less) The entire surface of the earth (including oceans) completely covered to the depth of one foot is close to the number of stars in "our" universe.... Are there aliens? Um..yea. Have any of them visited us?..probably not.
 
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit

Great! Show me the proof. Until there is irrefutable proof then just like so many other things, it's just a theory.


Nothing in Life or Science is irrefutably true. Scientific conclusions are based on the extreme likelihood that something is "true" It is statistically possible for ANYTHING to happen. I could give examples but you get the idea...well..you probably don't. Science is probably not your thing..which is OK.

Just a Theory..Like the Special Theory of Relativity? Like the General Theory of Relatively? Quantum Theory? Obviously you don't believe them?

"Helpful Hint"..Look up the definition of "Theory"
 
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Originally Posted By: john_pifer
Oh I don't doubt any of that. Personally, I think we'll find a way around the "speed limit" problem. To support that argument, just look at how far we've come, technologically, just in the last 113 years, since the Wright Bros. first flew. Heck, in just 44 years, starting in 1903, we went from the Wrights, to the flight of the Boeing B-47 Stratojet, predecessor to the 707, the first wildly successful jet airliner, which shrunk the world dramatically, to put it mildly.


I look at this....

600px-Flight_airspeed_records_over_time.svg.png


and wonder what we REALLY can do 50 years later, rather than what we are told just sort of "stopped"
 
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
Yeah, but that's fiction.

Reality is actually sometime more interesting than fiction, the concept of dark energy is pretty fascinating, makes up 68.3% of the universe.


You've just contradicted your own argument. Dark energy is still nothing more than a theory, making it as fictional as any hollyweird movie.


LOL, you really don't get the difference between scientific theory and pure fiction ?

Or is it just another grumpy statement to project the Pops persona ?

You really should have spent more time going to the talking pictures when they were new...might have helped you seethe difference between a spaceship landing on the whitehouse lawn, and threatening humanity versus a probability based model of the likelihood of a number of unlikely events happening a second (or third) time.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: john_pifer
Oh I don't doubt any of that. Personally, I think we'll find a way around the "speed limit" problem. To support that argument, just look at how far we've come, technologically, just in the last 113 years, since the Wright Bros. first flew. Heck, in just 44 years, starting in 1903, we went from the Wrights, to the flight of the Boeing B-47 Stratojet, predecessor to the 707, the first wildly successful jet airliner, which shrunk the world dramatically, to put it mildly.


I look at this....

600px-Flight_airspeed_records_over_time.svg.png


and wonder what we REALLY can do 50 years later, rather than what we are told just sort of "stopped"


It's frankly startling to think of.

Long as we're talking trajectories, just imagine where we'd be, today, technologically, and, with respect to space travel and air travel, if we'd continued on the same trajectory we were on in, say, the mid-1960s, when Apollo was in full swing. I say "mid 1960s" because I consider the Vietnam War to be one of the big historical events that did a lot to derail us from that path.

Ever seen the movie "2001: The Space Odyssey"? The space plane? We'd have those by now. A craft that would take off like an airplane, fire rocket engines to propel it into a ballistic arc, not quite into orbit, and back down again, anywhere on Earth, in under 90 minutes or so.

It's too bad.
 
Technology for increased airspeed isn't going grow like is has over the last 100 years unless there is a major break through in technology. Got to break the 'anti-gravity' secret and learn how to make air drag zero to keep moving on.
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Technology for increased airspeed isn't going grow like is has over the last 100 years unless there is a major break through in technology. Got to break the 'anti-gravity' secret and learn how to make air drag zero to keep moving on.


True, but travel times could be significantly cut with a space plane.
 
Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit

Great! Show me the proof. Until there is irrefutable proof then just like so many other things, it's just a theory.


Nothing in Life or Science is irrefutably true. Scientific conclusions are based on the extreme likelihood that something is "true" It is statistically possible for ANYTHING to happen. I could give examples but you get the idea...well..you probably don't. Science is probably not your thing..which is OK.

Just a Theory..Like the Special Theory of Relativity? Like the General Theory of Relatively? Quantum Theory? Obviously you don't believe them?

"Helpful Hint"..Look up the definition of "Theory"


There are a lot of things in "life or science" that are irrefutably true. To claim that "nothing" is irrefutably true is incompetent at best. Water is made up of 2 hydrogen atoms and 1 oxygen atoms. Science that is irrefutably true. Life forms on earth are made up of DNA-it's the blueprint for life as we know it. Irrefutable fact. It's why elephants give birth to baby elephants and monkeys give birth to baby monkeys. Life on other planets-only a theory despite what the folks who thrive on overnight talk radio would like to believe.

Nice try, but you did nothing more that provide fodder for your own incompetence.
 
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Life on other planets-only a theory despite what the folks who thrive on overnight talk radio would like to believe.


Ooh! BURNED by Pops!!
 
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Life on other planets-only a theory despite what the folks who thrive on overnight talk radio would like to believe.

Nice try, but you did nothing more that provide fodder for your own incompetence.





So you are aware of whats discussed on overnight talk radio!
 
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Originally Posted By: spasm3
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Life on other planets-only a theory despite what the folks who thrive on overnight talk radio would like to believe.

Nice try, but you did nothing more that provide fodder for your own incompetence.





So you are aware of whats discussed on overnight talk radio!


Ha!
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: john_pifer
Oh I don't doubt any of that. Personally, I think we'll find a way around the "speed limit" problem. To support that argument, just look at how far we've come, technologically, just in the last 113 years, since the Wright Bros. first flew. Heck, in just 44 years, starting in 1903, we went from the Wrights, to the flight of the Boeing B-47 Stratojet, predecessor to the 707, the first wildly successful jet airliner, which shrunk the world dramatically, to put it mildly.


I look at this....

600px-Flight_airspeed_records_over_time.svg.png


and wonder what we REALLY can do 50 years later, rather than what we are told just sort of "stopped"


Well, missiles were flying around mach 3 at that time, but these days some are doing mach 6, if that's any indication...
 
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: john_pifer
Oh I don't doubt any of that. Personally, I think we'll find a way around the "speed limit" problem. To support that argument, just look at how far we've come, technologically, just in the last 113 years, since the Wright Bros. first flew. Heck, in just 44 years, starting in 1903, we went from the Wrights, to the flight of the Boeing B-47 Stratojet, predecessor to the 707, the first wildly successful jet airliner, which shrunk the world dramatically, to put it mildly.


I look at this....

600px-Flight_airspeed_records_over_time.svg.png


and wonder what we REALLY can do 50 years later, rather than what we are told just sort of "stopped"


Well, missiles were flying around mach 3 at that time, but these days some are doing mach 6, if that's any indication...


The Sprint Missile was capable of hitting mach 10 in about 5 seconds, 40+ years ago.
 
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Life on other planets-only a theory despite what the folks who thrive on overnight talk radio would like to believe.

Nice try, but you did nothing more that provide fodder for your own incompetence.


As I said you still don't understand what a theory is. Read up on it.
Did you know it is possible for time to run backwards? That btw is part of a "Theory".

Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
To claim that "nothing" is irrefutably true is incompetent at best. Water is made up of 2 hydrogen atoms and 1 oxygen atoms. Science that is irrefutably true.

Water is composed of H20 Molecules, D20 Molecules and T20 Molecules. A water MOLECULE is composed of H20. Words and phrasing are important.
 
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Originally Posted By: john_pifer
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: john_pifer
Oh I don't doubt any of that. Personally, I think we'll find a way around the "speed limit" problem. To support that argument, just look at how far we've come, technologically, just in the last 113 years, since the Wright Bros. first flew. Heck, in just 44 years, starting in 1903, we went from the Wrights, to the flight of the Boeing B-47 Stratojet, predecessor to the 707, the first wildly successful jet airliner, which shrunk the world dramatically, to put it mildly.


I look at this....

600px-Flight_airspeed_records_over_time.svg.png


and wonder what we REALLY can do 50 years later, rather than what we are told just sort of "stopped"


It's frankly startling to think of.

Long as we're talking trajectories, just imagine where we'd be, today, technologically, and, with respect to space travel and air travel, if we'd continued on the same trajectory we were on in, say, the mid-1960s, when Apollo was in full swing. I say "mid 1960s" because I consider the Vietnam War to be one of the big historical events that did a lot to derail us from that path.

Ever seen the movie "2001: The Space Odyssey"? The space plane? We'd have those by now. A craft that would take off like an airplane, fire rocket engines to propel it into a ballistic arc, not quite into orbit, and back down again, anywhere on Earth, in under 90 minutes or so.

It's too bad.
there is more money to be made waging war for the military contractors as compared to space flight. Lobby money runs the government. Movies are make believe and not an educational platform. but then i want a light saber. Let the force be with you.
 
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