Mag1 0w20, 8665mi, 2012 Honda Accord 2.4L 5MT

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John_Bravo

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OIL Mag1 0w20

MILES IN USE 8,665

MILES 98,649

MAKE-UP OIL ADDED 0.5qt

SAMPLE TAKEN 7/1/2016

Universal Averages



ALUMINUM 4 3

CHROMIUM 0 0

IRON 12 9

COPPER 1 2

LEAD 2 1

TIN 1 1

MOLYBDENUM 71 73

NICKEL 0 0

MANGANESE 1 1

SILVER 0 0

TITANIUM 0 1

POTASSIUM 2 2

BORON 45 46

SILICON 14 12

SODIUM 6 49

CALCIUM 1769 2036

MAGNESIUM 103 211

PHOSPHORUS 621 686

ZINC 701 807

BARIUM 0 0





SUS VIS 210ºF 50.6 46-57

cSt @ 212ºF 7.46 6.0-9.7

FLASHPOINT ºF 350 >385

Fuel% 1.8
Antifreeze% 0 0

Water% 0
INSOLUBLES 0.2
TBN 1.4 >1.0

TAN


Comments: JORDAN, it looks like the Mag1 did a good job in this Accord. Universal averages show typical wear levels for this type of engine after 6,900 miles on the oil. Comparing your wear metals shows a little more iorn than the average, but that's expected on a longer run - iron is an element that tends to track directly with miles, and on a per-mile basis it's fine. We wouldn't worry about a little extra debris on the drain plug. We found a little fuel in the sample, but at that level it's harmless. The TBN shows some room for a longer run, so try 10,000 miles and check back.
____________________________________________

Hello all,

I purchased this car brand-new with 13mi on the odometer in January of 2012. It's had a steady diet of whatever 0w20 oil I found on sale (typically either Pennzoil Platinum or Mobil-1). The car has never really been babied...I didn't do a lot of full throttle runs during the first 500mi, but I did vary the RPM as much as possible. The car has been extremely reliable since day-one, and I feel that - as I'm fast approaching 100k miles - it'll be with me for a long time to come. I've been a long-time lurker on the BITOG forums, and now I've got something to contribute - hence my registration and first post.

At the time of this oil change, the car had roughly 98,650 miles on it. The oil was used for a little over four months (2/12/2016-7/1/2016), and my estimation is 60% city driving and 40% highway with average conditions - nothing severe to note. My girlfriend's parents finally secured an acreage in the country so the car has seen dusty conditions on this oil interval. The engine does not appear to burn a significant amount of oil (which I am proud of considering the known piston-ring issues with K24 engines).

Oil Filter: NAPA Gold (I usually use Wix)
Air Filter: Wix

Despite my long-time-lurker status, I've not yet gained a full understanding of how to read these UOAs. I'll be reading up on them more, but please offer your opinions on this UOA. It is my first time running Mag1 oil, and it seems to have quieted-down my engine somewhat. That may be subjective or weather-related, but I've been happy with it so far.

Kind Regards,
Jordan
 
Wear rates are good, probably could go further as suggested though fuel dilution appears abnormal.
Btw,
welcome2.gif
 
thanks for this. I will be running this oil in my T&C soon and plan to also get a UOA at end of OLM.
 
Your next make up will be at least twice more if you continue to overrun your oil. To prove these words ask lab not just for TBN, but for TAN as well. Then you'll understand that common rumor "TBN should be more than 1" is false from "A" to "Z".
Safe rule: TBN should be higher than TAN.
 
Wear #'s look good to me. Just keep following the OLM and keep it topped off. If you continue on dusty roads, check your air filter on every OCI until you get a feel for contamination levels. Make sure it's sealed properly on re-installation.
 
Thank you all for your input! I've always just gone by the maintenance-minder for oil changes, and in this case it was telling me 5% oil life (but in reality it was probably around 2% in the computer...just waiting to turn over to 0%). The fuel dilution was a concern of mine - if I decide to continue with this oil, I'll probably stick to 8500>miles/OCI. I'll read-up on TAN and TBN, thank you.

Kind Regards,
Jordan
 
Originally Posted By: timeau
Your next make up will be at least twice more if you continue to overrun your oil. To prove these words ask lab not just for TBN, but for TAN as well. Then you'll understand that common rumor "TBN should be more than 1" is false from "A" to "Z".
Safe rule: TBN should be higher than TAN.


See if you can locate the Honda paper that explains their OLM system.

Seeing how this (and countless other) oci worked out, there may be reason to not go by rules such as TBN cannot drop below TAN or TBN cannot drop below 2 or 3 or 35% of virgin or 50% of virgin etc etc.
 
Originally Posted By: CharlieBauer
Originally Posted By: timeau
Your next make up will be at least twice more if you continue to overrun your oil. To prove these words ask lab not just for TBN, but for TAN as well. Then you'll understand that common rumor "TBN should be more than 1" is false from "A" to "Z".
Safe rule: TBN should be higher than TAN.


See if you can locate the Honda paper that explains their OLM system.

Seeing how this (and countless other) oci worked out, there may be reason to not go by rules such as TBN cannot drop below TAN or TBN cannot drop below 2 or 3 or 35% of virgin or 50% of virgin etc etc.

+1
 
Originally Posted By: timeau
Your next make up will be at least twice more if you continue to overrun your oil. To prove these words ask lab not just for TBN, but for TAN as well. Then you'll understand that common rumor "TBN should be more than 1" is false from "A" to "Z".
Safe rule: TBN should be higher than TAN.


This is incorrect on many levels.
 
Originally Posted By: badtlc
Originally Posted By: timeau
Your next make up will be at least twice more if you continue to overrun your oil. To prove these words ask lab not just for TBN, but for TAN as well. Then you'll understand that common rumor "TBN should be more than 1" is false from "A" to "Z".
Safe rule: TBN should be higher than TAN.


This is incorrect on many levels.

Really? Could you count few of them? Beside of greediness, of course...
 
Originally Posted By: timeau
Originally Posted By: badtlc
Originally Posted By: timeau
Your next make up will be at least twice more if you continue to overrun your oil. To prove these words ask lab not just for TBN, but for TAN as well. Then you'll understand that common rumor "TBN should be more than 1" is false from "A" to "Z".
Safe rule: TBN should be higher than TAN.


This is incorrect on many levels.

Really? Could you count few of them? Beside of greediness, of course...


Yes. The absolute rule TBN >1 is wrong. Your rule of TBN to TAN is wrong. Your makeup oil comment is wrong.

I would start searching if you want to know better.
 
Originally Posted By: badtlc
Yes. The absolute rule TBN >1 is wrong. Your rule of TBN to TAN is wrong. Your makeup oil comment is wrong.

Where are facts? Prove your words by something else than politician slogans.

Originally Posted By: badtlc
I would start searching if you want to know better.

I did. Not sure about you.

http://lnengineering.com/resources/2014/02/28/frequently-asked-questions-about-motor-oils/
Used oil analysis is a valuable part of determining proper drain intervals and keeping an eye on the overall health of your engine. Once you have a VOA for a baseline of the oil you are using, a good rule of thumb for determining your drain interval is to change the oil when the TBN has been reduced to 50% of the original amount, unless testing deems an oil change is required earlier. This is more conservative than other recommendations to change the oil when the TBN is as low as 1 or 2. This means you should do a VOA (virgin oil analysis) of the oil you are using and you should order your oil tests with the optional TBN analysis to make that determination. If also testing for the TAN (Total Acid Number), when the TBN equals the TAN, then that is also an indicator that your oil needs to be changed.

At the same article:
HOW CAN I GET RID OF SLUDGE IN MY ENGINE?
Regularly changing your oil, usually more often than the manufacturer recommends, can prevent sludge from forming, if a quality oil is used. Remember, we usually go by the rule of thumb that an oil should be changed out when you get to 50% of the starting TBN, verified by used oil analysis. This ensures engine cleanliness without having to resort to overly detergent oils that are typically used for long service intervals.

Beware of using engine flush products on modern engines with tight clearances, as they have shown to loosen sludge and deposits which can then lodge in other places in the oil system, causing lifter, oil squirter, and even bearing failures. If you are trying to flush a modern engine, consider several consecutive oil changes with very short intervals to more gently clean the inside of your engine.

And here:
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/2170/oil-drain-interval-tan-tbn

Read, educate, think. Google will help you by simple phrase "oil change TBN equal TAN"
 
Try a reputable source. If your source does not discuss oxidation, sulfation, nitration, etc. it is a waste of time.

I'm not going to give you answers directly because you will just dismiss them as you see me as one who disagrees with you. Any source I provide, you would look to discredit. To help avoid confirmation bias, it is better you do the research yourself and find sources not associated with me so you don't immediately dismiss them.

FYI, there are/have been tribologists on this very board who have discussed several times about things to look for in a UOA. The simpleton rules of TBN/TAN have been debunked numerous times.
 
If "Machinery Lubrication" is not a reputable source, I have nothing to explain any more. What I see are just completely "naked" words. Exactly what was expected.
 




These images represent the valve adjustment performed on my car today (106,600mi). I thought it'd be neat to supplement my first post with these pictures; I'll be doing an oil change tomorrow since my current oil (Mag1) is at 8k miles.

Cheers all,
Jordan
 
Originally Posted By: timeau
Your next make up will be at least twice more if you continue to overrun your oil. To prove these words ask lab not just for TBN, but for TAN as well. Then you'll understand that common rumor "TBN should be more than 1" is false from "A" to "Z".
Safe rule: TBN should be higher than TAN.


The key phrase is "safe". If you go down this road you would change your oil every month or six weeks. Because you know it is "safe". There is no need for UOA because you are changing for "safety".

If the reserve of alkaline is enough to neutralize the acid present there is nothing to worry about. This is not an arbitrary figure such as alkaline greater then acid.
 
Originally Posted By: John_Bravo




These images represent the valve adjustment performed on my car today (106,600mi). I thought it'd be neat to supplement my first post with these pictures; I'll be doing an oil change tomorrow since my current oil (Mag1) is at 8k miles.

Cheers all,
Jordan


Looks awesome.
 
Please define 'overrun' .
This 8665 miles OCI at OLM 5% is NOT overrun, no?
 
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