Advice on Situation

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An acquaintance of mine owns a 2006 Camry (2.4L) that has 200k miles on it.

The vehicle had a bad water pump leak. They are going thru some tough financial times (spouse in school) so I offered to fix the water pump for the cost of parts. I normally do not do much free work these days but I decided to make an exception. I installed a new Aisin pump, new Gates belt, checked all pulleys (they were OK) and confirmed proper operation of the belt tensioner.

Upon pick-up of the car (before the work) I had noticed a slight whine at idle and a very noticeable high-pitched whine upon acceleration. I advised her that I did not have any additional time to spend on the car to diagnose the issue, but suggested that it sounded like an alternator noise and to have the alternator tested asap.

The owner brought the car to AutoZone and they confirmed an alternator failure. At this point I suggested that the alternator was probably the cause of the noise (maybe bad bearing??) so I ordered a remanufactured Denso alternator and installed it. For free. There was no change in the noise. During this visit I had more time, so I road tested the car more and was able to isolate the noise to the transmission. I checked the transmission fluid and it was very dark, so I flushed it with 12 quarts of Genuine Toyota T-IV (will be at my expense since I didn't obtain approval). Again, no change in the noise.

So, my dilemma is:

I "sold" the owner a new alternator and advised them that it would probably fix the noise. But it didn't. Should the owner still pay for the alternator?

I'm fairly certain that the alternator needed replacement anyway but the principle of the matter is that the owner was incorrectly advised that the alternator would fix their problem.

What do you guys think?
 
Call the customer and explain. Ask them what they're comfortable with. I would be prepared to eat the cost of the alternator.

That said, if I was your customer and you explained it to me just like that, I would be more than happy to pay cost on parts plus labor for the alternator, especially with you going the extra mile and servicing my transmission.
 
Wow, after a good deed like that any person worth their salt would say thanks, pay, realize its a old car and decide if they want to sink more money into it or not. A shop would have charged parts and labor, told them they needed an alternator and they have additional problems with the car. Then charge them to fix those problems too, or send them on their way.

If the person is reasonable and has half a brain they'll understand when you explain to them the joys of owning a car with 200K miles on it, and they'll pay for the work.

I've said it before I'll say it again, no good deed goes unpunished. I wouldn't want to be in your shoes. Good luck!
 
I would put the old alternator back on when I knew it wasn't the issue and not take their money. In all fairness you did a good turn and that a nice thing to do but on the other hand you misdiagnosed it.
I would have first tried running it without the belt, if it still made noise then you know to look elsewhere, if the noise went away I would have a parts store test it so I can hear the noise.
Sorry its on you man (the alternator anyway) not the transmission or the W pump.
 
Good Karma to you for helping someone that is helping themselves.

You said that autozone diagnosed the alternator as failure. Unless u still have the old one you will never know the truth. If you do have the old one you can have it tested on a bench for free at advance etc.

So with autozone being the expert diagnosis here, and the customer had it diagnosed.. you are merely the parts changer and have no liability

From what it sounds like this is a student car that needs to get the student to classes, yet also get groceries and run errands. If their budget is only to fix what has failed then ignore the whines and noises for now. But you obviously made a good call on the alternator according to Autozone.

So from what i can tell at this point you are still a good samaritan/neighbor.. and you passed the buck on diagnosing the noise except for your fluid change. If they become salty over it then shame on them.
 
No mechanic would change a suspect part based on some monkeys diagnosis at a parts store unless the damage was obvious like a broken case or something.
Not being a ball buster but we all make mistakes its how you handle them that counts.
 
How did AZ diagnose it? The only "official" way I know of is to put a midtronics battery tester on it and look for diode ripple. Maybe it only made 60 amps instead of 120.

AFAIK all you should eat is the tranny fluid change.

You can also take it to the next step, and bill for the alt. The ball is in her court, and then you still have a chance of being paid or not.
 
I'm with Trav on this one.

Additionally the "customer" did not even perceive this noise as a problem and is only concerned because critic mentioned it.

It is not a dilemma at all, the right thing to do at this point is to not charge the "customer" for the parts or labor.
 
The issue here is he didn't charge for labor, he did the work out of the kindness of his heart charging for parts only. According to the parts store the alternator was bad. Lesson learned as far as trusting someone else for diagnostics but still with 200K on the car the alternator might have been bad. I think at that point I would have stopped with the kindness and left the transmission alone. God forbid the trans [censored] the bed now..................
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
I'm with Trav on this one.

Additionally the "customer" did not even perceive this noise as a problem and is only concerned because critic mentioned it.

It is not a dilemma at all, the right thing to do at this point is to not charge the "customer" for the parts or labor.


The issue here is he didn't charge for labor, he did the work out of the kindness of his heart charging for parts only. According to the parts store the alternator was bad. Lesson learned as far as trusting someone else for diagnostics but still with 200K on the car the alternator might have been bad. I think at that point I would have stopped with the kindness and left the transmission alone. God forbid the trans [censored] the bed now..................


Disagree Strongly. The prior good deed is immaterial.

It is not the "customers" responsibility to pay for his education.
 
I feel for you. I had a friend that was told they had a belt squeal and the shop replaced and the squeal was back by the time they made it back home in 15 miles. An older Ford Taurus wagon. I pulled the belt and both the tensioner and idler had bearings going bad and as was late October(pre winter) had Napa test the alternator and it was not well either. All items were part of the issue or soon to contribute to a bigger problem. $100 had the car ready for winter and no call from the his wife that season for dead car. Your probably on the hook for the tranny. You had outside confirmation of a alternator going bad that could have soon left the car on the side of the road soon. A tow at any time or place is expensive.
Sometimes there is so many issues it's very hard to get a handle on them.
 
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I'm worried about the tranny, now. It's a good experiment to see what effect changing old ATF has on a Toyota of that vintage.

If the alternator tested bad then maybe it was on its way out.
 
Take the alternator back and get a refund. If that cant be accomplished, than eat the cost and learn from the mistake. And then stop "diagnosing" car problems and doing free work for people. After being burned too many times, I now do ZERO free work for any body. Its so easy to just say sorry, dont work on anybodies car but my own from now on.
 
Transmissions can make a whine when they're starved for fluid; but not from being low on fluid, but from having their filter clogged to the point where the fluid pump is starved for fluid. I've experienced that once with a GM TH400. Replacing the filter made the whine go away.
 
Agreed!
I don't think there's much doubt that the alternator was bad and if left alone would have left the owner stranded with a flat battery sooner or later.
That it wasn't the alternator causing the noise is merely coincidental.
The trans fluid change was a good call and may well extend the life of what might be a transaxle on the way to failure.
This is no more than good PM in changing what might well have been the original fluid.
Since you offered to do the work at no charge, I think that the owner should bear all of the parts cost including the ATF, which from your description would appear to have been due for a flush.
Advise her that the tranny might be on its way out and she should thank you for giving her free labor.
 
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
I'm with Trav on this one.

Additionally the "customer" did not even perceive this noise as a problem and is only concerned because critic mentioned it.

It is not a dilemma at all, the right thing to do at this point is to not charge the "customer" for the parts or labor.


The issue here is he didn't charge for labor, he did the work out of the kindness of his heart charging for parts only. According to the parts store the alternator was bad. Lesson learned as far as trusting someone else for diagnostics but still with 200K on the car the alternator might have been bad. I think at that point I would have stopped with the kindness and left the transmission alone. God forbid the trans [censored] the bed now..................


Disagree Strongly. The prior good deed is immaterial.

It is not the "customers" responsibility to pay for his education.


I wouldn't call this person a "customer", customers pay for parts and labor. No good deed goes unpunished............As far as the education, I can't count how many shops toss parts at cars and charge for every single thing they do right or wrong, including dealerships. Only they come up with a good cock and bull story to cover up for it. It's a sad state of affairs. Now had the "customer" paid for parts and labor it would be a totally different story.

Interesting and an eye opening topic for sure.
 
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Is this the type of person who buys a camry because it's an appliance and expects to pay $0 a year for maintenance and repairs?

Or do they know slightly something about cars?
 
Good way to loose friends, doing these types of favors. With that many miles, many components can be reaching the end of their useful life. And when you take one thing apart another thing breaks. Opening up a can of worms as they say. And the owner, not being a mechanic, doesn't understand the nature of a car that's wearing out and reaching the end of it's useful life. Too many potential surprises.

I have helped friends with many favors, but generally not car repairs.
 
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Agreed!
I don't think there's much doubt that the alternator was bad and if left alone would have left the owner stranded with a flat battery sooner or later.
That it wasn't the alternator causing the noise is merely coincidental.
The trans fluid change was a good call and may well extend the life of what might be a transaxle on the way to failure.
This is no more than good PM in changing what might well have been the original fluid.
Since you offered to do the work at no charge, I think that the owner should bear all of the parts cost including the ATF, which from your description would appear to have been due for a flush.
Advise her that the tranny might be on its way out and she should thank you for giving her free labor.
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It looks like we agree. Although knowing human nature I would have stopped the freebies after the alternator replacement when the noise was continuing. Then pitched the pitfalls of working on an old car.
 
Critic's problem is not technical but interpersonal. I too have stopped volunteering work for friends. The ones who need the most help typically have the oldest, most neglected, most rusty and needy vehicles that are absolute nightmares to work on. The most simple jobs become large headaches because of the rusted fasteners that need to be removed. If you break one of them, all of a sudden a simple 30 min job turns into 6 hrs. I'll give advice, but I won't push it. It's up to the person to follow through. They sometimes wait for me to volunteer, but I sit silent.
 
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