Adding/checking ATF level

[TurboFiat124]

One thing that has always baffled me is checking the level on an automatic transmission. It seems I can never get it right. Or when I check the level, it seems to vary for some reason. It might show there is the right enough one time and too much the other.

On about everything automatic I've ever seen it says to put the engine is park, idling when hot and check the level.

The Haynes manual says my Chevy van holds 7.7 quarts. Is that after replacing the filter or the total amount (transmission + torque converter)?

I added 6 quarts then let the engine get hot then checked the level. According to the dipstick, I have about 1 to 2 quarts more than what should be in the transmission. My plan is to put about 500 miles on it and dump it anyway.

If I'm supposed to add almost 8 quarts, then why is the dipstick showing I've added too much with only 6 quarts?

Another question. If I change the filter then add maybe 2 quarts to start with, then start the engine and let it get hot, as long as I leave it in park and don't shift between drive and park, is this OK (won't damage the transmission). Then after the vehicle get's warm, check the level then add a quart, recheck, then add another quart until the level shows between the hash marks?

Is that the correct way to do it?

 

[Olas]

It doesn't fully drain, some fluid remains in the unit.

 

[bioburner]

Almost impossible to get fluid out of the torque convertor. Best way to get close to same fluid back in is to capture and measure fluid from drain and replace same. Some drop and replace fluid, some drop, replace and do a poor mans flush. I like the last choice.

 

[RooflessVW]

7.7 quarts is the transmission's total capacity.

You likely only got 4 quarts or so when you dropped the pan.

 

[Rhymingmechanic]

The Haynes manual for my 2001 Silverado lists capacities for both a fluid & filter change and a dry fill, including the converter. (Coincidentally, the fluid & filter figure for the 4L80E is 7.7 quarts. The 4L60E takes 5 quarts.)

I always add less than the published figure and then adjust to full in 8-16 ounce increments. If the book says 5, I'll start with 4-4.5.

Also, ATF level varies quite a bit with fluid temperature. "Hot" is fluid temperature after about 15-20 minutes of driving, not coolant temp. I get my initial fill somewhere between "Cold" and the low end of the crosshatching, and then check fluid after driving to adjust the level.

I don't think it is a good idea to drive with a 2-quart overfill, but maybe someone else can address that. At the very least, fluid will probably puke all over from the vent when the trans gets hot.

 

[i_hate_autofraud]

Yeah, I wouldn't drive with an overfill, let the engine idle for a good 20 minutes while the radiator heats up the oil going thru the cooler and take several dipstick readings.

It's possible in some cases the dipstick is turned around a bit with the crosshatched area facing the wrong way and getting splashed leading to inconsistent levels. See if your dipstick technique is an issue.

Dipstick readings can be sensitive to a vehicle that's on a slight grade either front to back or side to side. Gotta be dead level.

 

[TurboFiat124]

Originally Posted By: Rhymingmechanic
The Haynes manual for my 2001 Silverado lists capacities for both a fluid & filter change and a dry fill, including the converter. (Coincidentally, the fluid & filter figure for the 4L80E is 7.7 quarts. The 4L60E takes 5 quarts.)

I always add less than the published figure and then adjust to full in 8-16 ounce increments. If the book says 5, I'll start with 4-4.5.

Also, ATF level varies quite a bit with fluid temperature. "Hot" is fluid temperature after about 15-20 minutes of driving, not coolant temp. I get my initial fill somewhere between "Cold" and the low end of the crosshatching, and then check fluid after driving to adjust the level.

I don't think it is a good idea to drive with a 2-quart overfill, but maybe someone else can address that. At the very least, fluid will probably puke all over from the vent when the trans gets hot.


I have found discrepancies in Haynes manuals before. That's why I wondered if 7.7 quarts was the total capacity of transmission, torque converter and cooler or how much just drains out of the transmission when the pan is dropped. The pan was actually off for about 3 hours before I got it back on.

I'm pretty certain mine has the deep pan (heavy duty model) because the auto parts store said there was no way of knowing which filter my van took unless they could compare the old filter to the new one. We came to the conclusion my van's transmission uses the deeper pan.

Both filters actually look identical. The only difference is on the "deeper" pan filter the one I removed and the store brand had a ridge on top. The WIX filter I bought had four teets on the bottom of the filter. The store brand filter for the "shallow" pan had no teets or ridges.

I did let the van idle to normal operating temperature (mainly to check for leaks), checked the level, then drove it about 5 miles then came home and checked the fluid level on level ground.

Oddly enough ever since I've owned this van, the fluid level has always appeared to have been more than 2 quarts higher than the "hot" range. In other words it's in the same range as it was before.

Once the vehicle was hot, it never seemed to puke any fluid out the dipstick tube.


Now that I have a drain plug in the pan, I can drain the fluid into a clean pan, then go back and four quarts, drive around the see what the dipstick says then.

 

[TurboFiat124]

Originally Posted By: i_hate_autofraud

It's possible in some cases the dipstick is turned around a bit with the crosshatched area facing the wrong way and getting splashed leading to inconsistent levels. See if your dipstick technique is an issue.



I wondered about that too so I checked the level with the dipstick facing both directions and got the same results.

 

[69GTX]

Once you've got your trans "hot" fluid level correct, you can then check it next time cold with the engine off. Future checks/verifications can be done cold as you know exactly where it is on the stick. When cold, mine comes up to a specific letter of the word "cross"....which is part of the phrase "cross hatched area."

 

[Gebo]

Usually, I thought the car should be fully warmed up and you check the dip stick after you have moved shifter through all the gears (P R N D and back to P) ending up in park with the engine idling. I don't know about your vehicle.

 

[Rhymingmechanic]

Which transmission do you have? The 4L60E pan is basically square. The 4L80E pan is a longer rectangle that's rounded on one end.

Total fill for the 60 is over 11 quarts and the 80 takes more than that, so the 7.7 from your manual would be a pan drain figure.

At least on my pickup, the "deep" pan doesn't seem very deep. The way to identify it, at least on the 2001 era trucks with the 4L60E, is that the deep pan has a short "step" on the bottom of the pan that makes one portion a little deeper.

Mine took 5.25 quarts after a pan drop and filter change. Using the factory drain plug, a simple pan drain takes a bit less than 4 quarts.

 

[TurboFiat124]

Originally Posted By: Rhymingmechanic
Which transmission do you have? The 4L60E pan is basically square. The 4L80E pan is a longer rectangle that's rounded on one end.

Total fill for the 60 is over 11 quarts and the 80 takes more than that, so the 7.7 from your manual would be a pan drain figure.

At least on my pickup, the "deep" pan doesn't seem very deep. The way to identify it, at least on the 2001 era trucks with the 4L60E, is that the deep pan has a short "step" on the bottom of the pan that makes one portion a little deeper.

Mine took 5.25 quarts after a pan drop and filter change. Using the factory drain plug, a simple pan drain takes a bit less than 4 quarts.


Here is a photo I snapped before going to the auto part store.

They guy could still not identify which transmission I had. According to the filter I removed it seems to match the one for the "80" transmission. Sure hope I got the correct filter! Does your transmissions pan look anything like mine?

 

[Rhymingmechanic]

That's like mine exactly, except I have a drain plug in the front corner dimple. You appear to have a 4L60E with a deep pan.

Here are some links for ID:

https://www.gmtransmissionparts.com/4l60e-Filter-Pan-Style-Guide/

http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki/General_Motors_transmissions (Scroll down about halfway to compare 60 and 80 pan shapes.)

On Rockauto, the 4L80E filter looks like a uniform rectangle with the pickup tube in one corner, while the 4L60E is an irregular shape with the tube more in the center of one end. I have never worked on an 80, but I can't imagine the wrong filter would fit.

 

[TurboFiat124]

The filter on the left is what I took out because of the ridge.

When the guy at the parts store showed me their store brand it looked identical. I chose the WIX for $2.00 more. Well why not? It's made by WIX, it's better, right? Then when I got it home I noticed it was made in China so I'm thinking, the other one was probably made in China as well. I just blew $2.00...

The replacement WIX did not have this ridge but rather "teets" on the opposite side.

Here is another question. I've changed oil in manuals multiple times but I think I have only changed the automatic transmission filter on the following vehicles (once each):

1976 Chevy pickup (turbo 400)
1968 Ford Fairlane (C4)
1980 Fiat Brava (GM TH-180)
1996 Ford Explorer ???
1998 Chevy Van (the other day)

When I started loosing the bolts, fluid started going everywhere. I caught most of it in my drain pan but at least 2 quarts hit the floor (what a mess!). I don't recall fluid going everywhere when I loosened the bolts on these other vehicles.

My question is, does the pan hold all the fluid (except for what's in the torque converter) or does some of the fluid actually sit above the gasket or above the top of the pan (if that makes sense)?

If not, then it's obvious there was too much fluid in the transmission to begin with. Even before this happened, they level appeared to be above the full when hot mark.

Now that I have a drain plug (which the O-ring is leaking anyway), I'm going to drain the pan, subtract 3 quarts and check the level again.

 

[Rhymingmechanic]

That picture is what Rockauto shows for the Wix deep pan filter, so it looks like you have the right one.

Every pan I ever removed has had fluid above the gasket. Check the dipstick with the engine off, and it will be a lot higher than the running level. All of that extra fluid is being pumped through the trans when the engine is on.

Maybe your other vehicles were low on fluid, or else the fog of memory makes the jobs seem more pleasant than they actually were. When you can get the plug to stop leaking, you'll be really happy with it.

 

[TurboFiat124]

OK so yesterday I opened the drain, made a new seal out of GoreTex material and a couple of hole punches.

I measured off 2 quarts from the six quarts I initially added with the new filter.

Started the vehicle and no level on the dipstick. So I drove it around a bit, Put the transmission in park with the engine idling and after a few miles noticed some level barely showing at curled end of the dipstick.

I added about a quart of ATF. Drove it some more, checked the level again. Not much of a change.

Added half a quart, drove it 40 miles. Now it's showing just below the initial HOT mark.

Added half a quart more of fluid.

Drove 40 miles home and now it's where it was before I drained it! About 1" above the hot mark!! So I am back to square one.

Is it really that hard to get the correct amount of fluid in an automatic transmission? Really?

Half a quart is not that much that should not cause the level to rise 1" on the dipstick should it?

Like I've said before, I've owned about a dozen cars that were manuals but very few automatics. When manuals, you can't *really* over fill a transmission or differential with oil.

Why does the level change between cold and hot? Does the fluid expand or foam up when it get's hot? And why does adding 1/2 a quart seem to increase the level so drastically?

I bet if I drove the van around and checked it tomorrow, the level would show different.

The level is right back to where it was before I even changed the filter. Since I've been driving it around like that since I bought it and it has not caused any ill effects, I guess it's OK to say I should probably leave it be.

I am going to dump the fluid after I get back from Nashville (400 miles). Then maybe dump it two more times.

The fluid I drained out 20 miles after changing the filter was really dirty/sludgy looking. I could not find any receipts as to the last time Dad has the filter changed.