How how can engines be expected to run?

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The reason why I'm asking is that a filter I'm thinking of using, Napa Silver, uses a rubber nitrile valve (instead of silicone). I called Wix (the folks who make it) and the guy didn't seem sure, but gave the temperature as 250 degrees Fahrenheit, as the point to which it will function properly.

Now can either of my engines be reasonably expected to go above this? Or is it that, by the time my engine is that hot, the coolant will be boiling over, or I couldn't drive it, anyways?

FWIW, I have never seen the temperature gauge in either car, go north of the flat even point in the dashboard.
 
Engine oil and coolant temperatures are different things. It's possible for the coolant to be within thermostatic control and have the oil temperature 50 degrees F hotter, since it's not thermostatically controlled. This would typically occur in a racing or towing situation.
 
Originally Posted By: NateDN10
Engine oil and coolant temperatures are different things. It's possible for the coolant to be within thermostatic control and have the oil temperature 50 degrees F hotter, since it's not thermostatically controlled. This would typically occur in a racing or towing situation.


I can assure you that I would be doing neither in either of the two cars in my sig. If anyone sees one of those cars racing, call the cops because it has been stolen.

So barring racing or towing, I can expect my engine to stay below 250?
 
Originally Posted By: paulri
Originally Posted By: NateDN10
Engine oil and coolant temperatures are different things. It's possible for the coolant to be within thermostatic control and have the oil temperature 50 degrees F hotter, since it's not thermostatically controlled. This would typically occur in a racing or towing situation.


I can assure you that I would be doing neither in either of the two cars in my sig. If anyone sees one of those cars racing, call the cops because it has been stolen.

So barring racing or towing, I can expect my engine to stay below 250?


Yes.

Don't you think that if rubber nitrile valve's were insufficient for doing their job at temp we'd have quit using them?
 
Originally Posted By: nwjones18
Originally Posted By: paulri


So barring racing or towing, I can expect my engine to stay below 250?


Yes.

Don't you think that if rubber nitrile valve's were insufficient for doing their job at temp we'd have quit using them?


Let me put it this way. I don't take it as a given, that because a large corporation sells a product (for my car or anything else), that it will automatically work as intended. This valve is used in one of the cheaper filters that NAPA sells (the Gold and Platinum don't have them), so I just want to make sure I'm not sacrificing risk of engine damage, just to save a few bucks that a filter upgrade would cost.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: paulri


Let me put it this way. I don't take it as a given, that because a large corporation sells a product (for my car or anything else), that it will automatically work as intended. This valve is used in one of the cheaper filters that NAPA sells (the Gold and Platinum don't have them), so I just want to make sure I'm not sacrificing risk of engine damage, just to save a few bucks that a filter upgrade would cost.


You have some indications that the product is LIKELY to work as expected. Of course accidents and mistakes happen
smile.gif


First, you have the API Service Classification. If the oil meets that classification, it's likely to stand up to the conditions experienced in a modern engine.

The oil may contact items that have temperatures of over 500 degrees, pistons. Combustion chambers reach higher temperatures when the fuel air mixture is ignited.

However, the oil doesn't reach, let alone stay at these temperatures as it makes it way back to the sump.

As others have said, one doesn't expect the oil in the sump to get above 250F. It's that temperature that will then be pumped though the oil filter and on through the engine.

I simply choose to believe the empirical evidence.

Most engines don't fail due to oil or lubrication issues. The number one killer of engines is cooling system failures. I believe lubrication failures comes in second after that.

People are pretty good about remembering to change the oil. However, I doubt they are as diligent regarding cooling system maintenance.

The vast majority of people using Iffy Lube oil and filters are doing just fine. Buy what helps you sleep better at night and enjoy.
 
The secret with the combo & other nitrile valves is-don't push them too far. 5K seems to be about as far as I can go on them, & I've had Quaker State filter ADBVs get stiff & quit working by 3000 miles. If you're going further, use a silicone ADBV filter.
 
I have an oil temp monitor and it once reached just over 230F when it was 96F out, I was climbing a very long and steep hill with two passengers and a loaded hatch, I had the AC blasting to make the two whiny women happy, and I was using 5W30 oil that had a high HTHS for the grade (yes, it did make a noticeable difference in oil temps...M1 5W30 ESP).
I think you'd have to be doing some heavy duty stuff to reach 250F in a typical vehicle. But, you may have some really high air temps, depending upon where you are in CA, so maybe you could do it...
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
I have an oil temp monitor and it once reached just over 230F when it was 96F out, I was climbing a very long and steep hill with two passengers and a loaded hatch, I had the AC blasting to make the two whiny women happy, and I was using 5W30 oil that had a high HTHS for the grade (yes, it did make a noticeable difference in oil temps...M1 5W30 ESP).
I think you'd have to be doing some heavy duty stuff to reach 250F in a typical vehicle. But, you may have some really high air temps, depending upon where you are in CA, so maybe you could do it...


Interesting. We do occasionally drive when it is that hot, but rarely. And all that just to reach 230.

I guess 250 really is a nice cushion, that I really wouldn't expect to ever hit in my cars. OK.

Yes, I would be interested in a FCI as long as 5000 miles.

So far it sounds like the Silver can do a 5K interval. I think I'll go with this, then.
 
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Isn't the NAPA silver the filter with the ADBV and bypass valve being all one piece; or is that the NAPA Select ?


Yes, the combo valve that is nitrile, is a combination bypass and ADBV valve. I don't know what the Pro Select has, but the Silver certainly has this.
 
Originally Posted By: paulri
Yes, the combo valve that is nitrile, is a combination bypass and ADBV valve.


I don't trust that thing. I've seen pictures of it here on BITOG and it looks as cheesy as a bag of Cheetos.
 
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
I have an oil temp monitor and it once reached just over 230F when it was 96F out, I was climbing a very long and steep hill with two passengers and a loaded hatch, I had the AC blasting to make the two whiny women happy, and I was using 5W30 oil that had a high HTHS for the grade (yes, it did make a noticeable difference in oil temps...M1 5W30 ESP).
I think you'd have to be doing some heavy duty stuff to reach 250F in a typical vehicle. But, you may have some really high air temps, depending upon where you are in CA, so maybe you could do it...


Does yours have the FA20DIT?

I got my oil temp on my 2016 WRX with that engine up into the mid-to-high 240s while playing around with a Nissan GT-R while pulling up a steep mountain section of I-24 near Monteagle, TN. back in June. Air temps in the low 90s and car had a fair amount of camping gear and a bicycle on the rear rack. PPPP 10W-30. I just actually finished a 5500-mile interval on that oil and have sent a sample to OAI. Results should be back this next week.
 
Originally Posted By: NateDN10
Engine oil and coolant temperatures are different things. It's possible for the coolant to be within thermostatic control and have the oil temperature 50 degrees F hotter, since it's not thermostatically controlled. This would typically occur in a racing or towing situation.


Or normal highway driving on a turbocharged engine. My wife's GN has seen 300-degree oil. Before adding a huge oil cooler, it topped 400 a couple times. Normal highway driving in hot weather will have 250-degree oil, sometimes 270-280 if climbing a long grade.
 
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: NateDN10
Engine oil and coolant temperatures are different things. It's possible for the coolant to be within thermostatic control and have the oil temperature 50 degrees F hotter, since it's not thermostatically controlled. This would typically occur in a racing or towing situation.


Or normal highway driving on a turbocharged engine. My wife's GN has seen 300-degree oil. Before adding a huge oil cooler, it topped 400 a couple times. Normal highway driving in hot weather will have 250-degree oil, sometimes 270-280 if climbing a long grade.


Bulk oil temps? Measured where?

Normal highway driving on this turbo'd engine in warm/hot weather is 225F to 235F, but it has a water/oil heat exchanger.
 
For normal street use, I measured the oil filter temperature several times and found it was well within 20 degrees of the coolant temp anyway.

Newer engines have cast oil pans that are intended to be structural rather then a thin metal stamping add-on, so "heatsinking" to the coolant temperature is more likely then older engines....
 
Originally Posted By: BobFout
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: NateDN10
Engine oil and coolant temperatures are different things. It's possible for the coolant to be within thermostatic control and have the oil temperature 50 degrees F hotter, since it's not thermostatically controlled. This would typically occur in a racing or towing situation.


Or normal highway driving on a turbocharged engine. My wife's GN has seen 300-degree oil. Before adding a huge oil cooler, it topped 400 a couple times. Normal highway driving in hot weather will have 250-degree oil, sometimes 270-280 if climbing a long grade.


Bulk oil temps? Measured where?

Normal highway driving on this turbo'd engine in warm/hot weather is 225F to 235F, but it has a water/oil heat exchanger.


Temp sensor is in the pan. Basically, the oil temp gauge mirrors the boost gauge!
 
Originally Posted By: john_pifer
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
I have an oil temp monitor and it once reached just over 230F when it was 96F out, I was climbing a very long and steep hill with two passengers and a loaded hatch, I had the AC blasting to make the two whiny women happy, and I was using 5W30 oil that had a high HTHS for the grade (yes, it did make a noticeable difference in oil temps...M1 5W30 ESP).
I think you'd have to be doing some heavy duty stuff to reach 250F in a typical vehicle. But, you may have some really high air temps, depending upon where you are in CA, so maybe you could do it...


Does yours have the FA20DIT?

I got my oil temp on my 2016 WRX with that engine up into the mid-to-high 240s while playing around with a Nissan GT-R while pulling up a steep mountain section of I-24 near Monteagle, TN. back in June. Air temps in the low 90s and car had a fair amount of camping gear and a bicycle on the rear rack. PPPP 10W-30. I just actually finished a 5500-mile interval on that oil and have sent a sample to OAI. Results should be back this next week.


Hi John, sorry I didn't see your post earlier.
Yes, I have the FA20DIT, but not tuned as nicely as the one in your WRX...you guys get a few extra ponies compared to the FXT.
Yeah, if you were racing a GT-R up a mountainous interstate on a hot day with a loaded car, those oil temps make sense to me! I was on a state highway and was probably maxing out at 70mph in the rare two lane passing sections of that road. I was generally limited to 55-60mph by traffic for the 98% of it that was single lane.
I was surprised that I saw noticeably higher oil temps with M1 5W30 ESP compared to their "standard" product, but it makes sense given that the ESP has a higher viscosity at operating temps. Shannow posted a very interesting article about friction losses vs. grade and the operating state of a vehicle.

Lubrication, Tribology, and Motorsport

I will keep an eye out for your UOA...take care!
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: BobFout
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: NateDN10
Engine oil and coolant temperatures are different things. It's possible for the coolant to be within thermostatic control and have the oil temperature 50 degrees F hotter, since it's not thermostatically controlled. This would typically occur in a racing or towing situation.


Or normal highway driving on a turbocharged engine. My wife's GN has seen 300-degree oil. Before adding a huge oil cooler, it topped 400 a couple times. Normal highway driving in hot weather will have 250-degree oil, sometimes 270-280 if climbing a long grade.


Bulk oil temps? Measured where?

Normal highway driving on this turbo'd engine in warm/hot weather is 225F to 235F, but it has a water/oil heat exchanger.


Temp sensor is in the pan. Basically, the oil temp gauge mirrors the boost gauge!


OK, mine is in the pan too. Is your oil cooler oil/air or oil/water?
 
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