Lack of Asian cars in Italy/Europe

[fdcg27]

Well, in Europe there's lots of fast intercity rail service as well as dirt-cheap air service from the likes of Ryanair and easyJet that make Southwest's fares look usurious.
Many of us would begin our vacations with scenic drives if we enjoyed as much time off work as Europeans do.
Flying commercial in this country is no fun, typically not all that cheap and not worth the trouble if you have the time to drive.
The interstate is also typically neither scenic nor fun, although both aspects typically improve as you drive west, north or south and get out of the crowded Boston/Philly/NYC metro and Great Lakes areas.

 

[ChristianReske]

Honda has a Makret share of 2,5 % here in Germany at the Moment, about 18% in the USA IIRC.

You cant belive how.... cant describe it... Germans are in prejuding japanese cars.

"Oh, you drive a Honda?"
"Yes."
"I never would!"
"Why?"
"Because every spare part has to be shipped from Japan to Germany, that took months!"
A Audi Fan. Year 2015.(!)
(Yes, we have hillbillys to here...)

"Oh, no, never Japanese, I drive a Opel! More relaible!"
OPEL is knowm as the worst of all german car makers and notorious for brake down.

Two of my Co-Workers think its perfctly O.K. to spend 2.500,-€ in two years on repairs for their VW Golf MK IV (Qualitywise the worst Golf ever made) and dont belive me if i tell them that Honda is more reliable ans dont neeed repairs.

I could go on with this a whole page. You cant belive HOW brainwashed Germans are, and if their 3 year old Audi / VW / BMW need expensive repairs every 3 months, they still think its O.K. because other cars must be worser.

Only true mechanics and gearheads know that Japanese Cars are equall or better than German cars.

But, one thing is true, spare parts for Japanese cars are extremly expensive here in Germany, they Cost 3 times more compared to USA prices. If you own a Japanese car, you need to buy oversea and / or try to get used parts.

One last thing: Japanese vehicle makers are to modest. They should make more (aggressive) advertising, pointing the (better) quality and reliability of their cars, but they dont.

 

[chrisri]

What Honda you have? I had Civic from the golden age of Japanese automotive industry (a 93 civic vti), and it was blast to drive. It was very reliable, but at 160k it consumed oil, had all four shocks failed and both front /rear axle wishbone/bushings replaced by that time.

Compared to Euro cars of that vintage it was brilliant, but not all that good when compared with modern Euro cars.
Family member have a 09-10 civw, that first generation spaceship hatch, and it's a utter rubbish. It's perfectly reliable, car had no work performed outside of normal maintenance but..

Compared with something like mk6 Golf or a Focus
It doesn't handle nearly as good.
Gear changes aren't as slick.
Brakes are weaker.
It looks stupid.
From door frame moves when you putting the window up and down- never saw that before.

Look for Toyota 2.0d4d head gasket / engine replacement.
They had their moment in Europe, but it's a long gone now.

 

[bigjl]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
EU countries have quite a large tariff for goods that are not produced inside the EU. Therefore you see less goods from China. Chinese aren't stupid though, they are starting to set up shop in EU countries with less expensive labor and import their goods there only to be re-packaged. They are then sold in EU with a proud sticker that it was made in EU.

Regarding cars, Japanese and Koreans are small players there. A huge part of Japanese success in NA were their small cars. The big 3 were simply not interested in the small car segment. In Europe, where the gas prices were always much higher than in NA, they have always had excellent small car segment, including offerings from Ford and GM (Opel). So the Japanese entered the market already filled with great little cars and they simply could not stand out.
On top of that, they were expensive to repair and service since the parts had to come in from Japan. It is different now as parts are made all over the world, but they are still struggling there.


I would point out that an awful lot of "Japanese" cars are made inside the EU.

And there isn't any import tariff when importing from outside the EU that I am aware of.

Perhaps it might be different for the Manufacturers but all Inpaid on my Japanese imports was VAT and Import Duty. Both based on CIF.

The reason why many French, Italian and indeed German buyers prefer their own Countries products is because they have a preference for their own Countries products.

The EU is a development of an invention of the Nazis designed to benefit the German Economy.

 

[ChristianReske]

Yesterday I forgot to mention one weak point of Japanese Cars her in Germany: Rust.

Roads getting salted here in Winter. German Car manufactuerers do a good job to keep cars rustfree for 10 - 12 years, with a thourugh coating insisde and underside. Japanese manufacturers on the other side still refuse to do this and leave it to the dealer or customer to rustproof the car. So, most Japanese Cars starts to rust early here in Germany. People know it an people see it, this scares them away from buying japanese cars.

It still Puzzles me why Japanese manufacturers refuse to do a better job in rustproofing their cars.

@ Chrisri:

I am owner of a VW Golf MK III 1995 and a Honda CRX del Sol 1997.
I own both cars since 7 years. The only thing the VW is better is the body and the cheaper spare parts. Beside this, the Honda beats the VW.

 

[B320i]

Very interesting to read the prejudice Europeans have to Asian cars. It is much the opposite here in Australia, where Euro cars are sometimes looked at with contempt...

"Doesn't that cost a fortune to service?"
"Don't you need 'special diagnostic equipment' to service it?"
"I used to have one, but it cost me $2,000 to fix, and the part wasn't even available and had to come from Europe*"

Me:
"Only costs a fortune to service if it needs more than an oil change... Labour is not cheap in any industry. Parts aren't a major concern."
"You only need diagnostic equipment if something is actually wrong, otherwise the service lights can be reset with a paperclip."
*"All car manufacturers now use the "just-in-time" parts inventory system, to reduce the cost of storing parts - but that comes at a disadvantage to customers."

 

[ChristianReske]

Same her with Japanes cars:
"Oh, Japanese car. You sure need a lot of special tools and cant do basic work by yourself, or?"

Some things are international it seems.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Well, in Europe there's lots of fast intercity rail service as well as dirt-cheap air service from the likes of Ryanair and easyJet that make Southwest's fares look usurious.
Many of us would begin our vacations with scenic drives if we enjoyed as much time off work as Europeans do.
Flying commercial in this country is no fun, typically not all that cheap and not worth the trouble if you have the time to drive.
The interstate is also typically neither scenic nor fun, although both aspects typically improve as you drive west, north or south and get out of the crowded Boston/Philly/NYC metro and Great Lakes areas.

Of course, your point is valid.
Still, I live in Colorado, I lived before that in San Diego, and when I say I drove to San Francisco on Pacific coast HWY, people ask me: why you did not fly?
Luckily I have very flexible job, even by Euro standards (I am from there) and always try to drive when I can, it is my "fix." But seriously, people consider I am crazy.
When I tell people I ski twice a week, three slopes-beer-three slopes-beer, many people say: oh man, that is two hour drive just to ski.
What you you gonna do...

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: ChristianReske
Honda has a Makret share of 2,5 % here in Germany at the Moment, about 18% in the USA IIRC.

You cant belive how.... cant describe it... Germans are in prejuding japanese cars.

"Oh, you drive a Honda?"
"Yes."
"I never would!"
"Why?"
"Because every spare part has to be shipped from Japan to Germany, that took months!"
A Audi Fan. Year 2015.(!)
(Yes, we have hillbillys to here...)

"Oh, no, never Japanese, I drive a Opel! More relaible!"
OPEL is knowm as the worst of all german car makers and notorious for brake down.

Two of my Co-Workers think its perfctly O.K. to spend 2.500,-€ in two years on repairs for their VW Golf MK IV (Qualitywise the worst Golf ever made) and dont belive me if i tell them that Honda is more reliable ans dont neeed repairs.

I could go on with this a whole page. You cant belive HOW brainwashed Germans are, and if their 3 year old Audi / VW / BMW need expensive repairs every 3 months, they still think its O.K. because other cars must be worser.

Only true mechanics and gearheads know that Japanese Cars are equall or better than German cars.

But, one thing is true, spare parts for Japanese cars are extremly expensive here in Germany, they Cost 3 times more compared to USA prices. If you own a Japanese car, you need to buy oversea and / or try to get used parts.

One last thing: Japanese vehicle makers are to modest. They should make more (aggressive) advertising, pointing the (better) quality and reliability of their cars, but they dont.


Euro version of Honda is different then the U.S. version of Honda. Many Honda models in Europe are branded in the U.S. as Acura. Japanese cars in Europe are much, much more sophisticated then in the U.S. to the point where Toyota buys engines from BMW to put in cars fro EU market.

 

[chrisri]

Originally Posted By: ChristianReske
Yesterday I forgot to mention one weak point of Japanese Cars her in Germany: Rust.

Roads getting salted here in Winter. German Car manufactuerers do a good job to keep cars rustfree for 10 - 12 years, with a thourugh coating insisde and underside. Japanese manufacturers on the other side still refuse to do this and leave it to the dealer or customer to rustproof the car. So, most Japanese Cars starts to rust early here in Germany. People know it an people see it, this scares them away from buying japanese cars.

It still Puzzles me why Japanese manufacturers refuse to do a better job in rustproofing their cars.

@ Chrisri:

I am owner of a VW Golf MK III 1995 and a Honda CRX del Sol 1997.
I own both cars since 7 years. The only thing the VW is better is the body and the cheaper spare parts. Beside this, the Honda beats the VW.




I already stated that in the 90s Japanese had better products compared to European, at least outside of the premium end of the market. Your two cars are great examples of this.
But move just five years forward and compare mk5 Golf or a mk2 Focus with Civic. Night and day.

 

[Y_K]

Since when Balkans are an epicenter of Euro sophistication?

And what Honda cars have BMW engines, please? I am for this, at Honda prices..

 

[Falcon_LS]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Euro version of Honda is different then the U.S. version of Honda. Many Honda models in Europe are branded in the U.S. as Acura. Japanese cars in Europe are much, much more sophisticated then in the U.S. to the point where Toyota buys engines from BMW to put in cars fro EU market.


I would give this as a random example; Future Toyota Supra to Use BMW Engine.

That being said, where "sophistication" is concerned, I would agree to some extent. Go back to the mid 2000s, when a VW Passat came with LED tail lights, projector headlights, LED strips on the door mirrors and push to start. How many Camrys or Accords of that era had all that technology for a similar price tag? I'm not talking BMW's here or JDM, which are way more sophisticated than anything the Japanese export.

Yes, European cars of that era did have some reliability problems and they were not perfect. Some were electrical problem galore. I am purely sharing a personal viewpoint here, but there are a ton of things I like about German cars compared to Japanese.

Let's start simple, a solid thud when you shut the doors on a German car vs. a Japanese car. Knock on the fender of a German car, does it sound so hollow? Personally I live in a country where accidents are a daily part of life - 70 accidents a day on average, at least 10 of which are fatal, in a country with a population of over 3 million. I see more Japanese cars looking like complete death traps after a crash than a VW. As bad as an accident may be, I have yet to see a German car torn to two pieces right at the center, like a Toyota Camry. I feel safer in a German car than I do in a Japanese, and you also don't get as much road noise/vibration in a German car as you do in a Japanese. Speculation? Maybe, but I did say I'm going by personal viewpoint.

Drivability - ever did an panic stop in a Toyota Land Cruiser Prado, which costs more than a VW Toureg, at 150 km/h? I did, and I almost soiled myself. Braking and handling are worlds apart. No, the suspension isn't soft and squishy for great ride comfort, but you're not riding T rated 215/60R16s either.

Servicing - difficult? Yes and no - I'd much rather do a timing belt on a Passat with a 2.0T FSI than a Camry with a 1MZ-FE. A 5S-FE is of course easier, but what I'm getting at is this is application specific and servicing modern cars is a pain the back no matter what you're working on. But, with the right tools, a German car is not any more difficult to work on than a Japanese.

Cost of parts - when buying genuine parts, brake pads for most Toyotas here costs more than an average VW. Again, I'm not throwing MB or BMW into the mix, because those are different classes of cars. But Japanese isn't more expensive than German and German isn't more expensive than Japanese - they pretty much break even in most areas.

 

[zeng]

Originally Posted By: B320i
Very interesting to read the prejudice Europeans have to Asian cars. It is much the opposite here in Australia, where Euro cars are sometimes looked at with contempt...

"Doesn't that cost a fortune to service?"
"Don't you need 'special diagnostic equipment' to service it?"
"I used to have one, but it cost me $2,000 to fix, and the part wasn't even available and had to come from Europe*"

Me:
"Only costs a fortune to service if it needs more than an oil change... Labour is not cheap in any industry. Parts aren't a major concern."
"You only need diagnostic equipment if something is actually wrong, otherwise the service lights can be reset with a paperclip."
*"All car manufacturers now use the "just-in-time" parts inventory system, to reduce the cost of storing parts - but that comes at a disadvantage to customers."


Sentiments from Australia sounds too familiar in Malaysia.
Until 1970, British cars/trucks like Mini Minor, mini cooper, Leylands,Ford, BMC,Seddons ... and Euro Fiats,Opel,MB,Audi,BMW,Peogeuot,Renaults and Oz's Holden dominate our market.
The 'only' emerging asian car then was like a Datsun 1200. No trucks.
Since 1980's till todate, it's total reversal exception being luxury brands ... for now.

 

[PeterPolyol]

Originally Posted By: Nick1994
What's wrong with engines with 20 year old technology?

They're getting great mpg, perform all you could ask an appliance car to do, and are as reliable as a rock. What more could someone want?

I'd prefer it if the most profitable automaker on the planet could not use 'old tech' as a crutch.