1979 300sd ATE Brake Calipers w116 Mercedes

[Gito]

1979 300sd w116

Got around replacing the Front Brake Calipers (ATE) today.

LF brake caliper went on without a problem.

Right Front (RF) brake caliper does not fit.
The outside of the ATE box has the following information: 230042
24.9260.-8026.5.

I installed the upper caliper bolt first.

I then went to align the lower hole to the caliper hole and the holes would not align. Pushed in the caliper a little more and when the holes came close to aligning the caliper was observed making contact with the outer part of the rotor (the part where the lug bolts are installed).

I have a feeling that I got a caliper that is not for my car.
How can I reference the outer box number?

The part numbers below are from the auto parts website and belong to my car.
Again, I feel that the problem might be with the actual brake caliper but I could be wrong
I did read one review where a guy had a problem with the correct ATE brake caliper not fitting

1164200083 (0024211898, W0133-1599978, W0133-1612359) is for the LF caliper
1164200183 (0024211998, W0133-1600264, W0133-1615114) is for the RF caliper


Please advise

 

[andyd]

I hope you didn't turn in the original for the core charge yet. The ATE calipers on my '88 BMW are a snap to re-condition. The job is mostly popping out the piston and and cleaning out the crud. I re-use the O ring and the dust boot. I use Sil Glyde and and a 6" C clamp to re-assemble. Its a very simple fix.

 

[Gito]

Originally Posted By: andyd
I hope you didn't turn in the original for the core charge yet. The ATE calipers on my '88 BMW are a snap to re-condition. The job is mostly popping out the piston and and cleaning out the crud. I re-use the O ring and the dust boot. I use Sil Glyde and and a 6" C clamp to re-assemble. Its a very simple fix.


The old calipers are Bendix (double caliper).
I still have them.
I thought about rebuilding them for later use.
Have NEVER attempted to rebuild calipers and not sure I have all the tools to accomplish it.

I have seen the Bendix Caliper repair kits and I think I should buy them, just in case I don't solve the ATE brake caliper issue.

Thanks

 

[JHZR2]

I don't recall that bendix and ate have an interchange issue on these cars, but you might compare the holes on the two to check. I also recommend checking the peachparts board.

 

[Gito]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I don't recall that bendix and ate have an interchange issue on these cars, but you might compare the holes on the two to check. I also recommend checking the peachparts board.


I did also post on peachparts.

The Left Front (LF) caliper went on without any problems.

Its the RF that doesn't fit.

I will say this, I chose to purchase new ATE calipers but they do not look new. They look refurbished yet the online parts store details and advertises the calipers as "NEW".

The Ate stamp looks worn on both calipers

 

[Gito]

By the way.
The first FR brake caliper arrived damaged so I had to get a replacement.
I still have the damaged caliper. I matched them up yesterday to see if maybe it was a bad caliper or the wrong caliper delivered but Both Calipers align with each other. The caliper bolt openings are on the same spot. Well the same spot as far as i could tell.

I did not install the damaged caliper (broken bleeder) on my car because I was afraid that I would be blamed for the broken bleeder.
Tempting for sure.

The Classic Center does have the FR caliper available (also ATE) so I might have to go that route.

As you can read on my post found on Benzworld, I'm not so sure that these calipers are brand new.

I'm not an expert but these calipers do not look new. Why the worn down ATE stamp?

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w116-s-se-sel-sd-class/2713257-w16-ate-brake-calipers-new-vs.html

 

[Trav]

Compare it to the original, use a caliper to measure and try it on sans brake pads. I had a tough time (not really but it didn't line up right away) with one of these but it was the same caliper that was still on the car, it just needed a little seating with a little persuasion.

 

[Gito]

Originally Posted By: Gito
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I don't recall that bendix and ate have an interchange issue on these cars, but you might compare the holes on the two to check. I also recommend checking the peachparts board.


I did also post on peachparts.

The Left Front (LF) caliper went on without any problems.

Its the RF that doesn't fit.

I will say this, I chose to purchase new ATE calipers but they do not look new. They look refurbished yet the online parts store details and advertises the calipers as "NEW".

The Ate stamp looks worn on both calipers


NOT GOOD, went from bad to worse

So I went to check on the Left Front (LF) brake caliper (ATE new caliper) and saw that the top of the rotor makes contact with the caliper.
It's almost like if my rotors are oversized. The rotor drags on the top of the caliper

I then decided to reinstall the original Bendix Caliper on the Left Front (LF) and observed that the LF Brake Caliper DOES NOT make contact with the rotor.
There is just barely enough space to clear the rotor

I continued on the the Right Front (RF) side and went to reinstall the original Bendix Caliper
This one was pretty hard to install with the rotor in place.

The bottom of the brake caliper rubs against the rotor (no brake pads). Found that kind of odd.
The rotor is not centered between the brake caliper.

I recalled that a few days ago I had a tough time removing the RF rotor from the spindle/shaft.
I had to bang the rotor off the shaft.
I had wheel bearings pressed and also had the rotors turned.

Installing the rotor and wheel bearing assembly on the FR was just as hard as removing it.

This might explain the rotor not being centered with the brake caliper.
The rotor and bearing could not be pushed in any further. The spindle nut just barely went on thru its threads and screwed in enough to have a flat surface between the outer nut and spindle. On the other side, LF, you can tell that the spindle nut is turned or screwed in a little more and explains the centered rotor between the caliper.

This means the RF rotor and bearing assembly needed a few centimeters to be considered "properly installed" and centered between the caliper

So I went to remove the RF rotor and bearing assembly to see what might be causing the issue
Well when I went to remove the rotor, the rotor came off with half of the wheel bearing assembly left behind on the spindle. Jeez....lol...what else could go wrong


So I have several problems here:

1. New ATE Brake Calipers do not fit my car ( I used the vin# to order)
2. RF wheel bearing does not slide in all the way

Questions:

Is there a chance that I have the wrong rotors?

Please advise

 

[slowrench]

I think you have a W123.1977 was the first year for W123.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Gito
Originally Posted By: Gito
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I don't recall that bendix and ate have an interchange issue on these cars, but you might compare the holes on the two to check. I also recommend checking the peachparts board.


I did also post on peachparts.

The Left Front (LF) caliper went on without any problems.

Its the RF that doesn't fit.

I will say this, I chose to purchase new ATE calipers but they do not look new. They look refurbished yet the online parts store details and advertises the calipers as "NEW".

The Ate stamp looks worn on both calipers


NOT GOOD, went from bad to worse

So I went to check on the Left Front (LF) brake caliper (ATE new caliper) and saw that the top of the rotor makes contact with the caliper.
It's almost like if my rotors are oversized. The rotor drags on the top of the caliper

I then decided to reinstall the original Bendix Caliper on the Left Front (LF) and observed that the LF Brake Caliper DOES NOT make contact with the rotor.
There is just barely enough space to clear the rotor

I continued on the the Right Front (RF) side and went to reinstall the original Bendix Caliper
This one was pretty hard to install with the rotor in place.

The bottom of the brake caliper rubs against the rotor (no brake pads). Found that kind of odd.
The rotor is not centered between the brake caliper.

I recalled that a few days ago I had a tough time removing the RF rotor from the spindle/shaft.
I had to bang the rotor off the shaft.
I had wheel bearings pressed and also had the rotors turned.

Installing the rotor and wheel bearing assembly on the FR was just as hard as removing it.

This might explain the rotor not being centered with the brake caliper.
The rotor and bearing could not be pushed in any further. The spindle nut just barely went on thru its threads and screwed in enough to have a flat surface between the outer nut and spindle. On the other side, LF, you can tell that the spindle nut is turned or screwed in a little more and explains the centered rotor between the caliper.

This means the RF rotor and bearing assembly needed a few centimeters to be considered "properly installed" and centered between the caliper

So I went to remove the RF rotor and bearing assembly to see what might be causing the issue
Well when I went to remove the rotor, the rotor came off with half of the wheel bearing assembly left behind on the spindle. Jeez....lol...what else could go wrong


So I have several problems here:

1. New ATE Brake Calipers do not fit my car ( I used the vin# to order)
2. RF wheel bearing does not slide in all the way

Questions:

Is there a chance that I have the wrong rotors?

Please advise


Are the rotors vented? W126 went from solid to vented, which fits (IIRS) W116 as well as w123 cars. Beyond some year the w126 rotors and calipers got even bigger, but there is an intermediate there that sort of fits...

Its a mislabeled part and the "sort of" part that concerns me a bit...

 

[Gito]

Again, closer look revealed that even though the LF brake caliper was lined up the caliper was still observed making contact with the rotor.

I can see openings or small compartments on the sides when the rotors are flat on the ground.
I believe that they are vented.

 

[Gito]

Tempted to buy new rotors but worried that it might not solve my problem.
How do I upload and attach pictures on this website?

 

[Gito]

Finally got around removing the tapered bearing left behind when i removed the front rotor (front right).

I'm going to remove the front rotors off my other w116 300sd 1979 and go from there.

I am hesitant in buying new rotors until I figure out why the bearing got stuck in the first place.

I spoke to a mercedes repair shop owner, that gave me tips on how to remove the stuck bearing, and he told me that he uses a pipe (proper diameter) and slams the bearing hub and rotor in place when they don't go all the way in.

I am going to buy a new bearing kit and hold on to it for now.

Has anyone ever had trouble installing the rotors with hubs on to the shaft (spindle)?
Has anyone used the "pipe method" to push the rotor and hub assembly in place?

This method sounds a little aggressive to me but I will try it if needed