Volvo 2.4T oil dilemma

[HawkeyeScott]

In the second oil change on this 2002 Volvo S60 2.4T I bought last winter. Used the Mobil1 0W-40 based on suggestions here. Car had been fed Castrol blend from the dealership. I've learned already this particular car is prone to burning a little bit of oil. (It burned 9 oz. in 1750 miles from May to August.) used Mobil conventional to make up. I did the math afterwards and figured out I was then running 95 percent full synthetic and 5 percent conventional.

Now, it's tme to make up a little bit again. (It's at the middle of the safe range on the dipstick; I try and keep cars at the top of the range. I'm at 3000 miles on the oil. I could change it all out, could make up more conventional, or add full synthetic. We're talking about 8 oz. or so (which means I've probably already spent too much time thinking about it).

I've been leaning towards just adding more conventional and then changing in 2000 more miles. That would be, roughly, a 90-10 blend.

What would you do?

 

[HawkeyeScott]

Or, I could add some Motor Oil Saver from Liqui Moly in hopes of getting a start on the burning issue.

So many options. And so many things I should probably be worrying about instead!

 

[BrocLuno]

OK, your "synthetic" is now used motor oil. The conventional will easily go the remaining distance. So just add make-up oil as you wish

What would you do on a trip? You'd make up with whatever was at hand. Heck, for the amount you are putting in, you could use ATF, SAE 30HD, or anything

If it were me, I'd go to BG109 and add a can which should be about 8 ounces (I can't recall the volume and I don't have any on hand, away now...). It will help loosen any stuck rings, etc. Similar to the Liqui-Moly products, but I've had very good luck with BG and you can get three cans with free shipping off Amazon easy enough.

On used motors, I add a can every oil change. Usually for three changes and it seems to cut down on consumption

Have you changed your PCV valve?

 

[sleddriver]

I just read something over on Matthews Volvo site (MVS) & Volvospeed (VS) about 2012 S60 motors "guzzling" oil after they reached about 50kmi or so. I note that your motor is a decade earlier. How many miles? Not sure what changes were made between the decade.

It appears VCNA issued a statement saying the '12 motors needed to be run off 100% syn. for dealer oil changes, rather than dino or blends they previously used. Some owners reported certain dealers wanted to do an "engine oil flush" on a regular basis.

I think it would wise to check the oil level every time you fill up. While there appears to be an oil pressure light, there isn't an "oil level low" light. Evidently many assumed the later was the former, and thus their motors ran very, very low.

If I were you, I'd only top up with the M1 you're currently using. I'm a firm believer that Volvo T-motors should be run only on 100% syn. It will also keep the PCV system open, which is critical on these cars. I've never had a clog in 19yrs.

I run M1 10W-30HM in the sled's motor. Oil consumption is minimal. Having just replaced both leaking front camshaft seals and cleaning up the mess, I'll be able to better track oil levels over time.

 

[Astro14]

Is it burning?

Or using?

The common problem with this engine is failure of the PCV system. It gets sludged up, particularly in the passages between oil pan and oil trap, which is located under the intake manifold, and in the long tube that runs from the oil trap to the intake tube by the turbo.

This leads to excess pressure in the crankcase, which leads to oil usage and, eventually, oil seal failure.

The only fix is to replace all the components and clean out those passages in the block. A kit like this is recommended: https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/volvo-pcv-breather-system-kit-c70-s70-v70-s60-turbo-v70t100 - but I also replaced this hose: https://www.fcpeuro.com/Volvo-parts/S60/...=211&page=1 because the internal parts were cracked. That is to be expected on a set of 14 year old plastic components that spend their life exposed to heat and oil.

I've had good luck with the Mobil 1 0W40 in the T5 wagon. I recently tried Castrol 0W40 in the XC (same 2.4 turbo engine as your car) and oil use dropped dramatically from the Pennzoil Ultra 5W30 that I had been using.

I discussed that in a thread on Volvoxc.com: http://www.volvoxc.com/forums/showthread.php?29024-Castrol-0W40

You can try a new oil, but I strongly recommend that you address the PCV system before it blows a seal...which will require a whole lot more work...

Ask me how I know....

 

[Kira]

Hello guys,

The OP's engine is using oil at a rate of 1 pint per 3,000 miles. I wouldn't sweat the make-up oil one bit.

I'm all for 100% synthetic oil for turbo engines and in this day of jug availability, I know the OP can find a way to keep it all syn. Kira

 

[Astro14]

There is nearly 2QT between full and add on this dipstick. So, it looks more like 1Qt Per 3,000 miles, which would be fine.

But since he's only owned this car for a year, and Volvo NA required only Dino for extended drains, which led to thousands of sludged engines in this vintage, I think he should check out the PCV system. And the "glove test" only checks the idle circuit. I've got $20 that says his car would benefit from a complete replacement of the system components, if it's not been done already.

$350 now for PCV work. Or that, plus several hundred more to do the cam seals if the PCV system causes failure. Cam seals are cheap. But you also need a cam locking tool. And a timing set...

 

[dlundblad]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
Is it burning?

Or using?

The common problem with this engine is failure of the PCV system. It gets sludged up, particularly in the passages between oil pan and oil trap, which is located under the intake manifold, and in the long tube that runs from the oil trap to the intake tube by the turbo.

This leads to excess pressure in the crankcase, which leads to oil usage and, eventually, oil seal failure.

The only fix is to replace all the components and clean out those passages in the block. A kit like this is recommended: https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/volvo-pcv-breather-system-kit-c70-s70-v70-s60-turbo-v70t100 - but I also replaced this hose: https://www.fcpeuro.com/Volvo-parts/S60/...=211&page=1 because the internal parts were cracked. That is to be expected on a set of 14 year old plastic components that spend their life exposed to heat and oil.

I've had good luck with the Mobil 1 0W40 in the T5 wagon. I recently tried Castrol 0W40 in the XC (same 2.4 turbo engine as your car) and oil use dropped dramatically from the Pennzoil Ultra 5W30 that I had been using.

I discussed that in a thread on Volvoxc.com: http://www.volvoxc.com/forums/showthread.php?29024-Castrol-0W40

You can try a new oil, but I strongly recommend that you address the PCV system before it blows a seal...which will require a whole lot more work...

Ask me how I know....


I knew there was some additional PM i was missing with her car.. Boo.

How long would it take the average DIY'r to do this job?

 

[Astro14]

PCV system took me 4 or 5 hours, the first time. Getting the banjo bolt in place, with crush washers, on the underside of the manifold wasn't easy. The job is straightforward, however. Second time (done pre-emptively on the T5 wagon) took about 3.

But the cam seals were a good six hours. Pull the serpentine belt, then timing cover, remove engine mount and air intake on driver's side to get at rear of cams, pull cam sensor and cam plug (not reusable), then bolt cam tool in place. Now remove cam pulleys, including VVT. Now replace seals. I elected to replace the crank seal while I was in there: jack up car, remove right front wheel and fender liner, unbolt crank pulley and remove, remove crank timing gear and replace seal. (Note: Always replace the timing belt, idler and tensioner as a set. Generally, the belt looks fine after 90,000 miles but the tensioner spring is starting to get weak or the bearings in the idler are starting to wear out. This is an interference engine.)

That was about six hours.

If the water pump is over 150,000 miles, add that to the cam seal job. It adds about another hour (it's driven by timing belt, so it makes sense to do it when the timing set is out) and only $100. Now, you're up to 7 hours, plus parts and tools. You absolutely need the cam tool to hold the cams in place. Otherwise, you can't do the seals.

Far better to get the PCV system done and avoid this cam seal job...

 

[Astro_Guy]

Originally Posted By: dlundblad
How long would it take the average DIY'r to do this job?

It requires removal of the intake manifold. That was enough for me to decide to let someone else do it.

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: Astro_Guy
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
How long would it take the average DIY'r to do this job?

It requires removal of the intake manifold. That was enough for me to decide to let someone else do it.


You'll need a 10mm 1/4" drive socket with a wobble extension. No other way to get that last manifold bolt under the thermostat housing. It's a pain. But that trick, once learned, is part of why the job went so much quicker the second time.

 

[HawkeyeScott]

Thanks, all.

123k miles. Using oil; don't see any smoke.

Checked today and have seen an increase in the oil usage. It's down on the low end of the dipstick after about 1400 miles the last two months. That said, I have revved it a little harder since the last top up. At this point, I'm now over a quart in 3000 miles and the pace of consumption is up.

I did the PCV box and tubing on Astro's strong recommendation when I first bought it. (It was a chore.) I did do the glove test before tearing into it, and it didn't reveal anything out of the ordinary.

I'm also seeing a pulsing on inclines at higher RPMs. Internet research shows questions being asked about the relationship to the pulsing (failing turbo?) and oil use, but no answers.

 

[benjy]

turbo'd engines generally use some oil, a qt on a thousand is said to be OK by dealers. yours is not bad at all, as my 2001 TT uses more especially @ 25lb boost!! synthetic for sure + real group IV + V synthetics are best. i put 200,000 on a 1.8T jetta slightly hopped using 10-30 amsoil when it "was" a PAO + Ester blend, 2o lb on the vaccum gauge @ trade time. mineral oils with closer viscosity spreads use require less viscosity improvers + hold up better. do you really need an 0W oil where you live?

 

[sleddriver]

Good to see you're well beyond the common symptom mileage reported by others, and that the PCV system has been attended to.

Not sure how close design-wise, our motors are. When I was re-choosing oil, M1 OW-40 was being reformulated so I ruled it out for the time being.

Not sure where El Oeste is, nor what type of climate you have.

 

[dlundblad]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: Astro_Guy
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
How long would it take the average DIY'r to do this job?

It requires removal of the intake manifold. That was enough for me to decide to let someone else do it.


You'll need a 10mm 1/4" drive socket with a wobble extension. No other way to get that last manifold bolt under the thermostat housing. It's a pain. But that trick, once learned, is part of why the job went so much quicker the second time.


Doesn't sound too bad I guess. Since you said the hash marks on the dipstick are about 2 quarts, I am not sure what her consumption is at. I change her oil based on time rather than mileage. Every 6 months is easy to remember and since her car is a short tripped sludger on the road to recovery, I am not sure what a decent OCI would be for the thing. I'll start writing down the mileage.

Jobs always get better the second time. We literally re-did her timing belt in half the time (maybe 2 hrs?) when we found out we were off by a tooth.

Also judging by the way that funky thermostat housing/ box is bolted in, removing the manifold might be the only way to get that out too. My book said to remove the PS pump and the bracket, but it looked like additional stuff was still in the way. The only way I was able to see that lower torx bolt was to have my phone on record with the flash left on. How does one even get to that bolt much less clean off the mating surfaces for a new thermostat?

 

[dlundblad]

Originally Posted By: HawkeyeScott


I'm also seeing a pulsing on inclines at higher RPMs. Internet research shows questions being asked about the relationship to the pulsing (failing turbo?) and oil use, but no answers.



Very interesting. I noticed something similar at highway speeds about 4 years ago. Her response was that it has always done it.

So you only notice this on inclines? Do you actually see a change in RPM's when this happens or do you just feel a slight jolt?

Google has shown nothing for me either.

 

[Astro14]

I don't have my records with me, but I think I did the water pump and thermostat on the XC when I did the PCV system and cam seals.

I tried to be efficient:

1. I needed to do the timing belt and the car had 171,000, on the original WP, so, I included the WP.
2. With the radiator already drained, there was crust around the thermostat when the manifold came off, so it was done at the same time. And that change took minutes with the manifold off.

A set of wobble extensions, patience, and a good manual are required on this car...

For those who will undoubtedly claim that it's not worth it, the Volvo XC now has 211,000 on it. It runs perfectly. The interior looks brand new, and the paint looks brand new (less a few dings here and there). There's no rust on the 15 year old wagon. We wrote a $12,000 check for the car in 2007. No payments. Low insurance. Low taxes.

Low cost, nice luxury, nice ride, good handling with AWD and every safety widget made.

It's been a great car.

 

[Astro14]

There are a couple potential causes for the pulsing.

Common are the MAF, a coil, older plugs, and, this one happened to me just the other day on the T5, a boost pressure sensor. When I bought the boost pressure sensor, the parts guy said, "I'm surprised you hadn't done it already"...

 

[Astro_Guy]

I found my records on the PCV breather service. It was $200 for parts and $495 for labor. This service was done by a local shop specializing in Volvo, not a dealer.

 

[ordinarybloke]

Likely irrelevant to you, but FYI I got a pulsing out of my 1999 V70 when the 02 sensor was on the way out. Originally I thought it was the ETM.

But this was at idle and I got a code indicating the issue. Went away as soon as O2 was changed.