Saw a BMW at Jiffy Lube today

[dlundblad]

Originally Posted By: B320i
Okay, so you see a BMW at the local "QuickLube" place, and cast a judgement that they're:
- Cheapskates
- Don't know how to look after their car
- Gonna ruin the engine

Point is, this person could be taking the car in as often as 3K/3months, but you don't know this and immediately cast a negative judgement.


Originally Posted By: B320i
Now, whether this "QuickLube" is actually checking over the car, and carrying out necessary work correctly is a whole different kettle of fish.




Is it me or are these points a bit contradicting considering they are from the same person in the same post?

Also, where'd you come up with these accusations? I don't remember saying them in this thread.

 

[B320i]

Originally Posted By: dlundblad


Is it me or are these points a bit contradicting considering they are from the same person in the same post?

Also, where'd you come up with these accusations? I don't remember saying them in this thread.

No, I do not believe my post was contradictory.
I'm simply stating the kinds of assumptions made on this forum when you mention an "expensive import" and "quicklube shop" in the same sentence. If they serviced the oil and filter at a price the owner considers good value, so what? A lot of people don't know the differences in oils used between dealers/indys vs. others.

The post went on to state that any debate over additional work being carried out cheaply/correctly was beyond the scope of the thread. It is.

I was not insinuating that you were making the assumptions. However, as stated above, it was directed to readers as a whole who feel compelled to cast judgement on someone simply because of where they get their car serviced. No-one here knows them, their car or even *what* specifically was being done to it.

 

[dlundblad]

When I saw the BMW, the term "expensive import" didn't go through my head.

They do however strike me as a car having a lot involved with an oil change. A potential belly pan with all fasteners, special oil filter, special filter removal tool and the special oil. This is completely disregarding how they are removing the drain plug and whether or not they are installing it correctly. Jiffy Lube as a whole makes me cringe.

1. Are they re-installing ALL of the belly pan fasteners?
2. Are they even changing the filter? If they are, is it the correct one?
3. If they are changing the filter, how are they removing the housing? Are they using the correct tool?
4. Last but not least, is the correct oil being used? As mentioned they do carry Pennzoil's Euro 0w40 so hopefully they are good.

The owners could very well be great people. They could also be completely unaware of what is required for their car. Some (most?) people just don't know their cars.. we do not live in a perfect world and that is just the way it will always be.


Your comment sums up my thoughts nicely.
Originally Posted By: B320i
Now, whether this "QuickLube" is actually checking over the car, and carrying out necessary work correctly is a whole different kettle of fish.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: dlundblad
When I saw the BMW, the term "expensive import" didn't go through my head.

They do however strike me as a car having a lot involved with an oil change. A potential belly pan with all fasteners, special oil filter, special filter removal tool and the special oil. This is completely disregarding how they are removing the drain plug and whether or not they are installing it correctly. Jiffy Lube as a whole makes me cringe.

1. Are they re-installing ALL of the belly pan fasteners?
2. Are they even changing the filter? If they are, is it the correct one?
3. If they are changing the filter, how are they removing the housing? Are they using the correct tool?
4. Last but not least, is the correct oil being used? As mentioned they do carry Pennzoil's Euro 0w40 so hopefully they are good.

The owners could very well be great people. They could also be completely unaware of what is required for their car. Some (most?) people just don't know their cars.. we do not live in a perfect world and that is just the way it will always be.


Your comment sums up my thoughts nicely.
Originally Posted By: B320i
Now, whether this "QuickLube" is actually checking over the car, and carrying out necessary work correctly is a whole different kettle of fish.


+1 The amount of trust one must place in a shop that may not have a lot of experience with a car that requires specific things to be done during the oil change is relatively high. A lot of new cars have belly pans these days, heck, even my wife's '06 Charger has one. A lot of them have canister-style filters. However not too many of them in North America that aren't somewhat rare have specific lubricant requirements that dictate a non-standard viscosity or a higher HTHS.

Taking the car to the BMW dealership or Euro-specific indy has been, in my experience, while expensive, the only way to ensure that everything is being done properly. The BMW dealer I dealt with when I got my clutch changed had a big window where you could comfortably sit and sip your latte or whatever you were drinking (provided on-site) in your leather recliner and watch them work on your car. The shop was white inside and surgically clean. They only used OEM parts and fluids and a thorough inspection of the vehicle was performed, the requisite maintenance minder(s) reset....etc.

My Chrysler dealer has similar policies, though without the highly polished shop and posh lounge. Vehicles only get OEM-spec filters and fluid, parts not in stock are brought-in from their respective dealers wholesale. So if your Mazda requires a filter that does not cross to a MOPAR, you don't get a whitebox special from the parts house, you will get an OEM Mazda filter. If you bring in a BMW, it gets BMW OEM oil (BMW 5w-30) and a BMW OEM filter. This goes for any parts the vehicle needs. Now, that's how their shop is run and I do not assume that this applies to other dealerships. One other thing worth mentioning: If you are cheap and specify a cheap alternative you have to sign for it on the work order acknowledging you have chosen against the advice of the mechanic and shop.

 

[Uber_Archetype]

Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Also, where'd you come up with these accusations? I don't remember saying them in this thread.

You didn't actually say much of anything. Exactly what is the point you are trying to make with this post, besides trolling for controversial, judgmental, opinionated argument?

 

[01rangerxl]

Jiffy Lube isn't the cheapest place to get an oil change by a long shot, but it can be the quickest/most convenient. I worked at one back in high school, a little over a decade ago. Even then, a basic conventional oil change there was like $35 (this was in an affluent area). As my manager there would say, "this is Jiffy Lube, not Slow As [censored] Lube." Price really wasn't our competitive advantage at all, and a lot of the oil changes were $70-$100.

Now if someone actually does an oil change for $19.95 or whatever on a car that takes 6 quarts of synthetic that needs to meet a spec and a $10 filter, yes I'd be suspicious, but odds are the bill for a newer BMW at JL is $70+.

 

[dlundblad]

Originally Posted By: Uber_Archetype
Exactly what is the point you are trying to make with this post,


It was a conversation starter on an oil forum.

 

[Ursatdx]

edyvw Do you really think a BMW will "Cook" an API SN ILSAC GF5 oil doing a 3 k OCI?
Only because it's been installed by a "quick lube" or that it is not a licensed "LL-01" oil?
You are clueless.
I install oil for a living (own/operate quick lubes). My experience tells me a 3k OCI with a branded conventional oil(Sopus 5w30 API SN-GL5) will provide adequate if not better protection than an LL-01 at 15k miles. I do not install a non LL-01 oil in BMWs unless the owner requests that I do.
When we service a BMW it gets a Mann filter using Casrol 0w40 (Mobil1 has dropped the LL-01).
I reset the OLM, maintain fluid levels and set tires to the proper pressure. All for +/- $100.00.
I'll even replace the drain plug gasket and use a torque wrench to seat the plug.
I come to BITOG to learn from the vast knowledge of many contributors who provide valuable info. I get angry when some spread disinformation regarding my industry.
When we service any car we take it very seriously and have been successful with that mindset.
So FU to those who paint all quick lubes as breeding grounds for damaged engines and over selling.
Thanks for letting me rant and thanks for those who truly contribute.




Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: B320i
Okay, so you see a BMW at the local "QuickLube" place, and cast a judgement that they're:
- Cheapskates
- Don't know how to look after their car
- Gonna ruin the engine

Point is, this person could be taking the car in as often as 3K/3months, but you don't know this and immediately cast a negative judgement.

Now, whether this "QuickLube" is actually checking over the car, and carrying out necessary work correctly is a whole different kettle of fish.
Plenty of Dealerships don't do things right either! My father purchased a Toyota Hilux in the 1980s, serviced at the dealership. Guess what? It wasn't being greased per the servicing requirements, and he discovered this from frequent visual inspections. Eventually, he taped the nipples, then showed the un-greased joints to the service manager after it was supposedly carried out! Red face moment for Toyota, for sure.

Purchasing my first car from family as a complete mechanical Luddite in 2013... I slowly came to realise a supposed "European Car Specialist" had not only ripped off my Aunt, but had left noticeable neglect in the engine bay.
Like cracked belts and shagged pulleys - replacement would be less than about $125 parts. Or an O2 sensor disconnected and ZIP-TIED (yes, really) to the under-body. I reconnected it, and got a performance and fuel economy gain as a result

But I digress. Even if this BMW is only seeing JiffyLube once or twice a year, its better than types that don't do anything at all to their cars.

Even if it is 3000mls service interval, BMW engine will cook regular oil in much shorter time.
I think it is greater possibility that this person just does not give a [censored], treats car strictly as vehicle that should take you from point A to point B. 90% of BMW drivers are completely oblivious to what those cars really are. That is why BMW's are having bad reputation, since most people think they could maintain them as their old Toyota, and if they drive them slow, they will last longer.
When I bought X5 35d, my mother in law said: oooo our friends had one (BMW) and their transmission died, and the only drove it to church. I said: transmission died precisely because they used car only to go to church. She still thinks I make fun of them going to church.

 

[gallydif]

Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Originally Posted By: raytseng
the owner is doing just fine maintaining their car.


Don't ever buy a used car from this guy. ^

Haha!

 

[gallydif]

Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Saw a fairly new BMW SUV at Jiffy Lube today. That is all..

What is a bitog'er doing anywhere near a quick lube?

 

[PFP]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
Just so you guys know, Jiffy Lube carries Pennzoil Platinum 5W-40 which is LL01 approved, and it is most likely the only oil they will sell and install. The filter either comes from a local store, and is probably a Mann, or they keep it in stock and it is probably a Mann.

They'll probably chew up the oil filter cap with channel locks, but it'll get the right oil and filter.

OEM oil filter for BMW is MAHLE, as is for most German cars.
On other hand, MANN is supplier of OEM air filter to all German manufacturers in 99% of cases including BMW.
As for what they put in that BMW< I would be skeptical. When I was student driving Mazda Millenia I once bought M1 EP and took it to 10 minute oil change. I did not have space to change oil, lived in the dorms. Anyway, guy needed several minutes to calculate how to get 6.3qt out of jug of 5qt and two additional bottles.
I hardly believe that mechanic at JF knows what is LL-01, or not to mention difference between LL-01 and LL-04.


You're not wrong, but you're not correct either. OEM filter manufacturer is Mann for most BMWs. Cellulose ends and in the OEM BMW box is Mann, vs plastic or metal ends on Mahle.

Fig 1:

Fig 2:

OEM cans for VW can be stamped Mahle, but I have seen them stamped Mann as well. OEM VW cartridge is Hengst.

You are right that they won't know what LL01 is, but they do know what oil the computer tells them is required; that computer will say Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W-40.

Cellulose end has Mahle too. Mahle is OEM for 35d and it is cellulose NOT plastic. I am not excluding that MANN has some oil filters as OEM in BMW< but since I ahd first BMW 318 E30 with M10 engine, all were MAHLE OEM oil filters. In the end it is very easy to determine, MAHLE will say MAde in Austria, MANN will say Made in Germany, Poland, Italy, Bosnia, Czech or Mexico.



Every BMW that I have bought had/has Mann oil filter from the factory and bought as replacement at the dealer. E39 and E90.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Ursatdx
edyvw Do you really think a BMW will "Cook" an API SN ILSAC GF5 oil doing a 3 k OCI?
Only because it's been installed by a "quick lube" or that it is not a licensed "LL-01" oil?
You are clueless.
I install oil for a living (own/operate quick lubes). My experience tells me a 3k OCI with a branded conventional oil(Sopus 5w30 API SN-GL5) will provide adequate if not better protection than an LL-01 at 15k miles.


It isn't the bottle viscosity, but rather the HTHS. An SN API 5w-30 will be around the 3.0 HTHS mark, the LL-01 will be at minimum 3.5cP as per the spec. Most are between 3.6-3.8. So regarding viscosity reserve, and subsequently protection, there's no way a non-approved 5w-30 conventional with a 3.0 HTHS is going to provide greater film strength and greater protection than an approved oil.

Originally Posted By: Ursatdx
I do not install a non LL-01 oil in BMWs unless the owner requests that I do.
When we service a BMW it gets a Mann filter using Casrol 0w40 (Mobil1 has dropped the LL-01).


That's really nice to hear and instills some confidence.

Originally Posted By: Ursatdx
I reset the OLM, maintain fluid levels and set tires to the proper pressure. All for +/- $100.00.


Do you use the blue OEM coolant when topping up the cooling system? What about the special washer fluid for the secondary reservoir on some models? Just curious as to what you keep in stock to deal with the specific requirements of the Euro stuff.

Originally Posted By: Ursatdx
I'll even replace the drain plug gasket and use a torque wrench to seat the plug.
I come to BITOG to learn from the vast knowledge of many contributors who provide valuable info. I get angry when some spread disinformation regarding my industry.
When we service any car we take it very seriously and have been successful with that mindset.
So FU to those who paint all quick lubes as breeding grounds for damaged engines and over selling.
Thanks for letting me rant and thanks for those who truly contribute.


I understand the frustration but there are enough shops out there not getting it right that we unfortunately hear about it at least semi-regularly. Even the dealerships (VW is the one memorable example) have screwed it up in the past, so it is a somewhat concerning subject for people. We realize that not all shops are bad, hence my dealership example given earlier. on the other hand I can certainly appreciate how you would feel slighted by comments made in threads like these that paint the whole industry as a sideshow of incompetence.

Keep on doing it right

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: PFP


Every BMW that I have bought had/has Mann oil filter from the factory and bought as replacement at the dealer. E39 and E90.


The OEM for the E39 M5 was Hengst, FYI. But all the others I've purchased have been MANN.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: PFP


Every BMW that I have bought had/has Mann oil filter from the factory and bought as replacement at the dealer. E39 and E90.


The OEM for the E39 M5 was Hengst, FYI. But all the others I've purchased have been MANN.

Every one I purchased were MAHLE, Made in Austria.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: Ursatdx
edyvw Do you really think a BMW will "Cook" an API SN ILSAC GF5 oil doing a 3 k OCI?
Only because it's been installed by a "quick lube" or that it is not a licensed "LL-01" oil?
You are clueless.
I install oil for a living (own/operate quick lubes). My experience tells me a 3k OCI with a branded conventional oil(Sopus 5w30 API SN-GL5) will provide adequate if not better protection than an LL-01 at 15k miles. I do not install a non LL-01 oil in BMWs unless the owner requests that I do.
When we service a BMW it gets a Mann filter using Casrol 0w40 (Mobil1 has dropped the LL-01).
I reset the OLM, maintain fluid levels and set tires to the proper pressure. All for +/- $100.00.
I'll even replace the drain plug gasket and use a torque wrench to seat the plug.
I come to BITOG to learn from the vast knowledge of many contributors who provide valuable info. I get angry when some spread disinformation regarding my industry.
When we service any car we take it very seriously and have been successful with that mindset.
So FU to those who paint all quick lubes as breeding grounds for damaged engines and over selling.
Thanks for letting me rant and thanks for those who truly contribute.




Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: B320i
Okay, so you see a BMW at the local "QuickLube" place, and cast a judgement that they're:
- Cheapskates
- Don't know how to look after their car
- Gonna ruin the engine

Point is, this person could be taking the car in as often as 3K/3months, but you don't know this and immediately cast a negative judgement.

Now, whether this "QuickLube" is actually checking over the car, and carrying out necessary work correctly is a whole different kettle of fish.
Plenty of Dealerships don't do things right either! My father purchased a Toyota Hilux in the 1980s, serviced at the dealership. Guess what? It wasn't being greased per the servicing requirements, and he discovered this from frequent visual inspections. Eventually, he taped the nipples, then showed the un-greased joints to the service manager after it was supposedly carried out! Red face moment for Toyota, for sure.

Purchasing my first car from family as a complete mechanical Luddite in 2013... I slowly came to realise a supposed "European Car Specialist" had not only ripped off my Aunt, but had left noticeable neglect in the engine bay.
Like cracked belts and shagged pulleys - replacement would be less than about $125 parts. Or an O2 sensor disconnected and ZIP-TIED (yes, really) to the under-body. I reconnected it, and got a performance and fuel economy gain as a result

But I digress. Even if this BMW is only seeing JiffyLube once or twice a year, its better than types that don't do anything at all to their cars.

Even if it is 3000mls service interval, BMW engine will cook regular oil in much shorter time.
I think it is greater possibility that this person just does not give a [censored], treats car strictly as vehicle that should take you from point A to point B. 90% of BMW drivers are completely oblivious to what those cars really are. That is why BMW's are having bad reputation, since most people think they could maintain them as their old Toyota, and if they drive them slow, they will last longer.
When I bought X5 35d, my mother in law said: oooo our friends had one (BMW) and their transmission died, and the only drove it to church. I said: transmission died precisely because they used car only to go to church. She still thinks I make fun of them going to church.

I saw VW 1.8T engines cooking Mobil1 5W30 ILSAC GF5 and actually developing sludge bomb. Maybe it will not cook "soccer moms" X5 with N55 engine in 100K, but at 200K would really like to see N55 engine with ILASAC GF-5 oil.
I am talking about "soccer mom," anyone who drives BMW the way they are suppose to be driven will have issue sooner rather then later, and I am talking about synthetic oil.
I am not going to even address issue with conventional oil in BMW engines.
However, I am glad that you are doing what you doing, except, I would personally refuse to put non approved oil even if customer asks, because that might come back to bite you.
MANN, MAHLE, HENGST, FEBi are all good choice of filters.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: PFP


Every BMW that I have bought had/has Mann oil filter from the factory and bought as replacement at the dealer. E39 and E90.


The OEM for the E39 M5 was Hengst, FYI. But all the others I've purchased have been MANN.

Every one I purchased were MAHLE, Made in Austria.


For the S62?



That's the part I always found in the box for the S62.

 

[edyvw]

No for E30 318, E34 520i, current 35d, all OEM were Mahle and Made in Austria.
You get this is dealership or online? I mean is this in OEM BMW box?

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: 02SE
Lots of people buy or lease status symbol cars they can't really afford. I can't tell you how many high end cars I've seen with some cheap brand of tire I've never heard of. And I've been around the automotive field since the 80's..

At least they were making an attempt to maintain their car. I have friends that are still in the consumer car repair business. They see the vehicles that aren't maintained after something fails due to maintenance neglect.
Nothing like a Bust My Wallet with cheap whitewalls.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
No for E30 318, E34 520i, current 35d, all OEM were Mahle and Made in Austria.
You get this is dealership or online? I mean is this in OEM BMW box?


This is the BMW box filter. I have also used the MANN filter for this application but upon doing so ended up preferring the OEM at roughly the same price.

Here they are side-by-side:




Also, you can see in the earlier pic the actual BMW logo on the top of the filter on the right-hand side.

The BMW branded E46 filters we purchased for my wife's 328i and my sister's 330i are MANN FWIW.

 

[edyvw]

Hmmm, yeah I know that is Hengst because they use different approach in securing upper part of filter.
I just ended up having BMW's who have all MAHLE OEM filters

I know that others (MANN and Hengst) are also suppliers too, but so far majority I saw were Mahle. I also know that on 35d some drivers had issues with MANN filters, particularly rubber gasket that goes on cap.