Which way to go

[supton]

Originally Posted By: Nick1994
My auto will get around 33-35 mpg if I drive about 65 mph.

Timing belt really isn't that hard to do, mine will need one soon. Was a $100 kit by Gates (or Dayco?). Alternator off, both serpentine belts off, timing belt plastic cover off, harmonic balancer off but crank to TDC, mark timing belt with white out so you can count the teeth, take off tensioner and pulley, bolt new pulley and tensioner on and slip on belt and reassemble.

Luckily you'd have your Tundra as a spare in the meantime if you got stuck with something.


Yeah, I recall you saying it wasn't that bad. Am guessing a 2 weekend job (maybe less--once home I could work into the evening, just checking in on the kids). Only issue being, it technically drives up the price on that 5MT one--I'm dithering on calling. I did wimp out and email on one of them--don't really want an auto, but they are reliable units, and that one would leave money in the repair fund.

Did you pull the oil pump and do the o-ring on that? I passed up on a $400 '99(?) Camry 5MT--once I saw the massive oil leak I walked. Guy said it needed an oil pan gasket, but it was way too much oil for that. Got home, looked it up, common failure mode. Oh well. It's of course buried in with the timing belt, so I'd probably R&R that at the same time as the belt.

 

[Nick1994]

Originally Posted By: supton
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
My auto will get around 33-35 mpg if I drive about 65 mph.

Timing belt really isn't that hard to do, mine will need one soon. Was a $100 kit by Gates (or Dayco?). Alternator off, both serpentine belts off, timing belt plastic cover off, harmonic balancer off but crank to TDC, mark timing belt with white out so you can count the teeth, take off tensioner and pulley, bolt new pulley and tensioner on and slip on belt and reassemble.

Luckily you'd have your Tundra as a spare in the meantime if you got stuck with something.


Yeah, I recall you saying it wasn't that bad. Am guessing a 2 weekend job (maybe less--once home I could work into the evening, just checking in on the kids). Only issue being, it technically drives up the price on that 5MT one--I'm dithering on calling. I did wimp out and email on one of them--don't really want an auto, but they are reliable units, and that one would leave money in the repair fund.

Did you pull the oil pump and do the o-ring on that? I passed up on a $400 '99(?) Camry 5MT--once I saw the massive oil leak I walked. Guy said it needed an oil pan gasket, but it was way too much oil for that. Got home, looked it up, common failure mode. Oh well. It's of course buried in with the timing belt, so I'd probably R&R that at the same time as the belt.
I didn't do the oil pump o-ring with my 97', but it was a little oily in there.

The valve cover is another common leak point, but easy to change. Took me around 30 minutes to do. $20 gasket.

A friend of mine is a mechanic and helped me with my timing belt. He watched and told me what to do while I did it. Took probably 4 hours.

 

[Al]

The odds of getting a reliable $3000 Subaru that doesn't need HG's or complete timing belt kit are as close to zero as you can get.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: Al
The odds of getting a reliable $3000 Subaru that doesn't need HG's or complete timing belt kit are as close to zero as you can get.


Many of the HG's have been done already, out of necessity. I clicked on a few ads and the description would often list it as being done. So not sure I'd worry about that.

Dunno how hard it is to do a TB on one of these. Might not be so bad, pop the radiator and all the room in the world, right?

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: Nick1994
The valve cover is another common leak point, but easy to change. Took me around 30 minutes to do. $20 gasket.

A friend of mine is a mechanic and helped me with my timing belt. He watched and told me what to do while I did it. Took probably 4 hours.


4 hours, not bad, albeit with "expert" help all the same.

I took a look at doing the valve cover gasket on my Tundra, and have been putting it off. I don't think it's that bad, probably a couple hours (one per side?) but... last thing I need to do is to break something while doing the job. Ergo the necessity of having one more vehicle at my house.

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: supton


Many of the HG's have been done already, out of necessity. I clicked on a few ads and the description would often list it as being done. So not sure I'd worry about that.

Not trying to be smart, but let me know how you make out. After a month or two of owing it.

Quote:
Dunno how hard it is to do a TB on one of these. Might not be so bad, pop the radiator and all the room in the world, right?

Don't forget you need the whole kit (3 idlers, WP, Tensioner, couple seals). I have seen the changeout go horribly bad.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: Al
Not trying to be smart, but let me know how you make out. After a month or two of owing it.


Fair enough, and actually a valid point. Not everyone is all that... honest. I know many a TDi met a premature death due to botched TB jobs (interference engine, and not the worlds easiest job either).

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: supton
We hate automatics. Well, I'm slowly warming up to them, but I still hate the one in my truck.


I presume what you don't like about the automatic in your truck is lazy programming. I can't promise it, but I'd bet you lunch that you won't like the automatic in a Panther any better. They're likely to be tuned the same -- that is, to get into the highest gear as fast as possible.

Some brands have transmission programming that seems to be pretty in tune to what the driver wants. I've never found Toyota and Ford to be among that group.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: supton
We hate automatics. Well, I'm slowly warming up to them, but I still hate the one in my truck.


I presume what you don't like about the automatic in your truck is lazy programming. I can't promise it, but I'd bet you lunch that you won't like the automatic in a Panther any better. They're likely to be tuned the same -- that is, to get into the highest gear as fast as possible.

Some brands have transmission programming that seems to be pretty in tune to what the driver wants. I've never found Toyota and Ford to be among that group.


Yeah, it's not in tune, although I will have to concede it's probably me (pesky auto engineers probably have half a clue, have to give them that much). I dislike the mushy unlocked torque convertor allowing up/down reving--modulate throttle, like in town, and it's up/down a few hundred rpm's. Like something is slipping (which it is). I can't count the number of times I've gone up a hill, had the convertor unlock, so I command a downshift (I *always* drive in the mode that allows me to lock out upper gears) and wind up with... lower rpm. Seriously. It'd rather slip and pull a higher rpm than downshift, lock and then use all available power (rather than making heat).

Not only that, but sometimes I want it to lug down and carry the hill. I'd rather lose speed than mpg (no one behind me? why not?). Other times I'm the one who has to force a downshift ahead of time, so it'll be ready when I want to get on it. In town, it'll go up through the first 4 gears on its own ok, but it likes to get into 5th too soon... so I have to lock it out.

Then there is atrocious low speed thing it likes to do: if I'm at say 5mph, let off and coast, then get on it... it'll be in 1st. rpm shoots up (while not actually doing anything), then it'll pop into 2nd. So now I have to pulse the throttle any time I'm below 10mph so that the trans will magically be in the right gear without that "pop".

Cruise control? drives me nuts. I've never had a vehicle hunt before. It will slow down, then do a double downshift, rev right up, upshift, and then attempt to go back to 6th. Repeat. Mind you: when I drive it with my right foot it'll never shift at all on that hill. I never use cruise in it.

Honest: after driving stick-only for 20 years, this thing had me putting in more effort to drive than my manuals. I mean, it's nice while backing up a trailer, sometimes nice in traffic to creep along (although I still sometimes find myself rolling through an intersection). My wife complains about it too; I haven't figured out how to explain to her how to drive it. In her mind, it's an automatic, it's supposed to do its thing automatically. If it doesn't, then it's not a very good one now is it?

*sigh*

I never bought it to be a daily driver, and it does fine for what it is. An appliance. At least I can easily lock out the upper gears, and after driving it for a year straight I know my haunts and can get it to work the way I *think* it should. I suppose if I didn't have this to complain about I'd complain about the mpg, or maybe that it's white, or who knows what.

Anyhow...

 

[01rangerxl]

Originally Posted By: Miller88
If you could get a manual transmission panther wagon, then the choice would be obvious.


This is as close as you will get to that, but it's in OR...

1997 Explorer MT 4x4 4-door

Can't be too bad of a drive. Buy it supton.

 

[Andrew1972]

Originally Posted By: supton
Originally Posted By: Al
The odds of getting a reliable $3000 Subaru that doesn't need HG's or complete timing belt kit are as close to zero as you can get.


Many of the HG's have been done already, out of necessity. I clicked on a few ads and the description would often list it as being done. So not sure I'd worry about that.

Dunno how hard it is to do a TB on one of these. Might not be so bad, pop the radiator and all the room in the world, right?


Timing belt for my subie expert was <2 hrs from drop off got a call all set and spent $350. I belive book is 3hrs and this car has plenty of space once radiator is moved as motor is longitudinal not traverse.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Subaru Legacy is an option too. Those were made at the Isuzu plant in USA.
I really rather drive a legacy than a camry any day. Never drove a camry I didn't run out of screaming.

Though I haven't tried the new ones. Ridiculously intrusive cennter consoles are a big putoff. Why get a midsize car if all the seating width is gone with a foot wide center console. I think the Taurus is the worse example of this/

No Camry sticks anymore in 2016/2017?

 

[Andrew1972]

Originally Posted By: Al
The odds of getting a reliable $3000 Subaru that doesn't need HG's or complete timing belt kit are as close to zero as you can get.


My parents recently went to price Edward island which is 600 mile drive each way in a 2000 forester with 200k event free. It's running with OEM head gasket and timing belt last visited at 100k. It qualifies as a $3k vehicle although condition is exceptional own d since new.

My dad is a bit whacked as they have a 2016 Outback but wanted to save the miles/wear but my guess is that is his last car he owns as he is 73. I am 46 and parents only have owned 4 vehicles.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
Originally Posted By: Miller88
If you could get a manual transmission panther wagon, then the choice would be obvious.


This is as close as you will get to that, but it's in OR...

1997 Explorer MT 4x4 4-door

Can't be too bad of a drive. Buy it supton.

I'd probably work myself into a 4x4 5 speed cherokee at that point. I like Explorers and I like Fords, but I have always loved Cherokees.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Subaru Legacy is an option too. Those were made at the Isuzu plant in USA.
I really rather drive a legacy than a camry any day. Never drove a camry I didn't run out of screaming.

Though I haven't tried the new ones. Ridiculously intrusive cennter consoles are a big putoff. Why get a midsize car if all the seating width is gone with a foot wide center console. I think the Taurus is the worse example of this/

No Camry sticks anymore in 2016/2017?


They stopped making sticks after 2011. Well, for NA anyhow.

I prefer bench seats but our Camry fits us fine. Console isn't that bad, is another cubby hole for junk. Worst part is the cup holder, the shift smacks into any drink that is tall. Wouldn't be a problem in a 5spd, but in a 6 it is.

 

[krismoriah72]

On the topic of snow cars.. Ive had impreza, legacy and forester. The little things on subarus drive u nuts, like axles, wheel bearings..and of course the head gasket issues in the 2.5 motors.

If i were to recommend a dang good and fun car with awd, a stick and a bulletproof engine I would go for the Impreza with the EJ22 5speed AWD. Impreza Outback Sport would be the cream.


Another option i would throw in would be the older Kia Sportage. I have worked on a few that local guys used for work vehicles in the coal mines. Easy to work on and they are tough as nails.

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: madRiver


Timing belt for my subie expert was div>

Did it include WP,idlers, tensioner, seals, TStat and small WP hose?

 

[JTK]

Originally Posted By: Al
The odds of getting a reliable $3000 Subaru that doesn't need HG's or complete timing belt kit are as close to zero as you can get.


Agreed. Not to mention possible rear subframe rust, fuel filler tube rust, etc.

 

[JTK]

Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: madRiver


Timing belt for my subie expert was div>

Did it include WP,idlers, tensioner, seals, TStat and small WP hose?


Even just a belt @ $350 is a heck of a deal. Mom and pop shops around me charge $90/hr for labor.

 

[Andrew1972]

Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: madRiver


Timing belt for my subie expert was div>

Did it include WP,idlers, tensioner, seals, TStat and small WP hose?


No that was $500ish and that parts made it fine till 180k then my legacy turbo had an engine specific issue ej255 with Outback/legacy stock tune where it burned a valve. So at 180k changed for parts price only although water pump is oem or not listed on the long bill.