Lack of Asian cars in Italy/Europe

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Originally Posted By: 4WD
You don't see many Japanese cars in Korea - mostly their brands of cars/trucks ...


It is my understanding that the South Koreans hate the Japanese.

With the OP as well as this, loyalists could very well be the correct term.
 
You guys are looking at this from American perspective.
Italy? What to say about people who say: I know my Alfa trenta tre (33) might not start next morning, but "Cuore Sportivo" etc. It is mentality. Look at Germans. They are making uber expensive stuff and yet, they still make to have higher trade sufficit then China. I am from Europe, Bosnia, you do not buy a car to go from point A to point B. You buy another member of the family! And Hyundai, KIA, Toyota Camry etc. are definitely not that member. Another and bigger issue is sophistication of product. High fuel prices and driving culture require smaller but fast engines. Due to urban development in Europe, cities are smaller, so cars have to be smaller, but they still pack a punch. I am more confident on HWY in ANY VW Golf then ANY Chevrolet Impala or whatever they are trying to sell on TV today as Audi or BMW with "real" people not actors.
So, Japanese cannot sell their reliability there because in Europe you cannot sell Camry with 20 year old engine technology. Toyota's 2.0 D-4D and 2.2 D-4D engines for long time were some of the most unreliable diesel engines on the market. Mazda had some chance, but FORD buried Mazda's image, now whether they will be able to recuperate after abandoning partnership with FORD is questionable.
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
So, Japanese cannot sell their reliability there because in Europe you cannot sell Camry with 20 year old engine technology.


That's another rub: from what I understand, Europeans just don't drive as far as Americans do. Per year, or on a given vehicle (before it is scrapped).

Ironically, the Japanese are even worse.
 
Originally Posted By: supton
Originally Posted By: edyvw
So, Japanese cannot sell their reliability there because in Europe you cannot sell Camry with 20 year old engine technology.


That's another rub: from what I understand, Europeans just don't drive as far as Americans do. Per year, or on a given vehicle (before it is scrapped).

Ironically, the Japanese are even worse.

The reason cars in Japan go to the junkyard early is because there is a huge registration fee on older cars. It is so expensive that most older cars on the road are special.
 
Originally Posted By: artificialist

The reason cars in Japan go to the junkyard early is because there is a huge registration fee on older cars. It is so expensive that most older cars on the road are special.


By junkyard you mean Russia.
wink.gif


Oh, and tie 'em down before the trip.

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Originally Posted By: supton
Originally Posted By: edyvw
So, Japanese cannot sell their reliability there because in Europe you cannot sell Camry with 20 year old engine technology.


That's another rub: from what I understand, Europeans just don't drive as far as Americans do. Per year, or on a given vehicle (before it is scrapped).

Ironically, the Japanese are even worse.

Nope, actually more Europeans are likely to drive longer distances then Americans. Now the issue might be that Europeans who drive longer distances make less miles then those American who drive longer distances simply bcs. of geography, size of countries and continent.
BMW actually issues statement about issues on N63 engine here in teh U.S. They claim that majority of issues are coming from the fact that BMW engines are designed for Euro driving cycle, and that customers here are simply using those cars as grocery shoppers.
 
Fair enough, although the stats I saw indicated the average age, and average miles per year, were lower for European vehicles than for American vehicles. [And presumably much lower for Japanese.] Perhaps Euro cars sit more, but when driven, get driven, which is your point?

My original point, which I didn't state (not sure why I didn't type it), is that Euro drivers probably don't care as much about having high tech. It's not like it's going to get that old. Who cares if the intake plugs shut after 120k--not when the car will be junked by 100k. [The irony for the Japanese is that they too could do likewise, since their cars don't have to go even that far--but they stick with old tech.]

And of course, if you're right, then that hypothetical intake plugging doesn't exist, since with rigorous driving it shouldn't plug up, or to my point, will proceed at a slow enough pace to not matter.
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
BMW actually issues statement about issues on N63 engine here in teh U.S. They claim that majority of issues are coming from the fact that BMW engines are designed for Euro driving cycle, and that customers here are simply using those cars as grocery shoppers.


Well that's just silly. BMW should very well know the driving habits of their customers here in the US and design their vehicles for the intended market.
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: edyvw
BMW actually issues statement about issues on N63 engine here in teh U.S. They claim that majority of issues are coming from the fact that BMW engines are designed for Euro driving cycle, and that customers here are simply using those cars as grocery shoppers.


Well that's just silly. BMW should very well know the driving habits of their customers here in the US and design their vehicles for the intended market.

BMW is selling German car in the U.S. If it wanted to sell Chevrolet Impala with 200ft braking distance from 60mph, it would not be German car anymore.
 
Originally Posted By: supton
Fair enough, although the stats I saw indicated the average age, and average miles per year, were lower for European vehicles than for American vehicles. [And presumably much lower for Japanese.] Perhaps Euro cars sit more, but when driven, get driven, which is your point?

My original point, which I didn't state (not sure why I didn't type it), is that Euro drivers probably don't care as much about having high tech. It's not like it's going to get that old. Who cares if the intake plugs shut after 120k--not when the car will be junked by 100k. [The irony for the Japanese is that they too could do likewise, since their cars don't have to go even that far--but they stick with old tech.]

And of course, if you're right, then that hypothetical intake plugging doesn't exist, since with rigorous driving it shouldn't plug up, or to my point, will proceed at a slow enough pace to not matter.

Euro car generally pack much, much more technology under the hood! Granted, Euro cars do not have that sophisticated cup holders, but when it comes to transmissions and engines, they are much more sophisticated then your regular Japanese or American car. Now, my reference to cup holders, I noticed that generally American cars pack a lot of convenience items compare to Euro cars, but I would say technology wise, Euro cars are in century ahead compare to Detroit. Detroit is trying to get that technology to the U.S. market, but it has to be very selective bcs. of expectations.
As for driving cycle, yeah, Europeans are using public transportation a lot (not all) and ditching cars at 100K is not more common then here, I would say people over there keep cars longer. Take into consideration that cars are more expensive there and interest rates are much higher. However, I would say that people over there are much likely to drive 1000 miles then here. Here what I noticed is that anything longer then 300mls, response is: there is SouthWest.
Also, like I said, geography probably makes people drive less miles, but because of size of continent, it is at the same time more conducive for drive. At the same time roads are at much higher standard then in the U.S. which also makes travel easier.
 
Originally Posted By: Y_K
Some 60 to 0 distances recorded Where is VW, Renault, Citroen? Only high end can claim anything close to your religion. I wish I could keep an affordable European car here past 100k miles: simply not reliable

Yeah, they do not disintegrate like Chevy, Chrysler or FORD. 15 years ago you could not buy Chrysler whose transmission would make over 70K and they ended up in hands of FIAT, an underperformed in Europe.
Simple answer why not reliable more then 100K: Average driver here cares more about size of cupholder then what is buying and how it is maintaining.
That is why Toyota still sells engines that have 20year old technology.
And the link you gave, seriously?
 
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Originally Posted By: 4WD
You don't know what you're talking about

Yeah, tells guy who drive three cars whose technology is developed in Cologne and Russelshleim.
 
yes, I just had to give a ride to a fellow, who had to leave his BMW X5 at the bottom of an uphill drive.. I have 2/32 left over the wear lines on my tires, have an appointment next week to fit my hundy with a set of new galoshes.
Keep singing, I have no problem with your love of European superiority. Just a reminder: Tigers were the best machines in WWII, but they had too much downtime.
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Y_K
Some 60 to 0 distances recorded Where is VW, Renault, Citroen? Only high end can claim anything close to your religion. I wish I could keep an affordable European car here past 100k miles: simply not reliable

Yeah, they do not disintegrate like Chevy, Chrysler or FORD. 15 years ago you could not buy Chrysler whose transmission would make over 70K and they ended up in hands of FIAT, an underperformed in Europe.
Simple answer why not reliable more then 100K: Average driver here cares more about size of cupholder then what is buying and how it is maintaining.
That is why Toyota still sells engines that have 20year old technology.
And the link you gave, seriously?
What's wrong with engines with 20 year old technology?

They're getting great mpg, perform all you could ask an appliance car to do, and are as reliable as a rock. What more could someone want?
 
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