2014 HD Road King, Red Line 20w/50

[UltrafanUK]

Originally Posted By: alarmguy
It really doesnt matter if an oil is a full synthetic, part synthetic or full conventional unless it is proven to result in less wear which rarely anyone can prove, its all marketing. They are all classified by API grade.
If your concerned about wear, use any oil in the API grade recommended by the manufacturer of the vehicle and change at or before the recommended change interval.
Everything else is just unproven reasoning and full blown marketing with words, zero facts..and massive profits for the maker of the oil.
(idahokid, you heard Syn3 is a full synthetic so you may try it now, yet you use part synthetic oil in your truck, personally i rather use part synthetics or full conventional in a motorcycle as no one has ever proved to me a full synthetic is better when it comes to wear)


It depends how you define a full synthetic and the type of engine involved. If you talk to folks that rebuild turbo charges or who like long OCI's, you will find they have a lot of evidence about both the high temp shear resistance of a full synthetic and it's ability to outlast a dino based oil.
If you do have a turbo charged engine or a petrol engine that is subject to high RPM's (Bike engines for example), German standard group 4 synthoils or GTL based oils like Shell or Penn Ultra produce better UOA figures.

There is not much evidence that there is a significant difference between a HC synthetic and a good conventional base oil when used in a typical non turbo car engine when the OCI is not in excess of 5K miles. The additives included in the oil are then the important factor, rather than the actual base stock type or mix.

If you live up North and have to use an 0wX in winter, then I suspect it would be very difficult to make an oil in that grade from a conventional base stock that would pass API spec requirements.

 

[alarmguy]

Originally Posted By: UltrafanUK
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
It really doesnt matter if an oil is a full synthetic, part synthetic or full conventional unless it is proven to result in less wear which rarely anyone can prove, its all marketing. They are all classified by API grade.
If your concerned about wear, use any oil in the API grade recommended by the manufacturer of the vehicle and change at or before the recommended change interval.
....



It depends how you define a full synthetic and the type of engine involved. If you talk to folks that rebuild turbo charges or who like long OCI's, you will find they have a lot of evidence about both the high temp shear resistance of a full synthetic and it's ability to outlast a dino based oil.
If you do have a turbo charged engine or a petrol engine that is subject to high RPM's (Bike engines for example), German standard group 4 synthoils or GTL based oils like Shell or Penn Ultra produce better UOA figures.

There is not much evidence that there is a significant difference between a HC synthetic and a good conventional base oil when used in a typical non turbo car engine when the OCI is not in excess of 5K miles. The additives included in the oil are then the important factor, rather than the actual base stock type or mix.

If you live up North and have to use an 0wX in winter, then I suspect it would be very difficult to make an oil in that grade from a conventional base stock that would pass API spec requirements.


Keeping in mind we are talking motorcycles and not turbo charges cars, though some of this still pertains but not all.
I agree, longer OCIs, high heat and extreme cold synthetic will certainly be more stable. Im not at all discounting synthetic oils, in the USA almost all except for a very small percent of 100% synthetic oil is simply a much more "refined" stable product made from oil and dont get me wrong, it performs almost as well. Remember we are talking the USA here, not Germany where its illegal to sell 100% fully synthetic oil that is made from oil.

With that said, when it comes to actual engine wear there are stand out products in both conventional and synthetic. It truly does depend on how often one changes oil AND the recommendation of the engine manufacturer. Long OCIs will always mean synthetic, its very stable.

As far as synthetic being superior in wear, that has yet to be proven, its mostly words and marketing and people making statements but nothing to back them up.
Example, in regard to motorcycles, which we are discussing here. Amsoil did a "Study of Motorcycle Oils" Part II back around 2010 (still VERY easy to find online)
They compared something like 8 synthetics and 2 conventional motorcycle oils. Of course 2 or 3 of the very top oils were synthetics but right there in the middle, when it came to wear, plain old $4 a quart Valvoline Conventional Motorcycle Oil was right in the middle of the pack when it came to wear, beating many synthetics, some quite expensive. This is why when I say "when it comes to wear" there is good and bad in every category yet in reality, we are splitting hairs.

Its why I say, if it fits the API category, your good to go, synthetic or conventional most vehicle owners will never know a difference.

 

[Idahokid]

Originally Posted By: alarmguy
It really doesnt matter if an oil is a full synthetic, part synthetic or full conventional unless it is proven to result in less wear which rarely anyone can prove, its all marketing. They are all classified by API grade.
If your concerned about wear, use any oil in the API grade recommended by the manufacturer of the vehicle and change at or before the recommended change interval.
Everything else is just unproven reasoning and full blown marketing with words, zero facts..and massive profits for the maker of the oil.
(idahokid, you heard Syn3 is a full synthetic so you may try it now, yet you use part synthetic oil in your truck, personally i rather use part synthetics or full conventional in a motorcycle as no one has ever proved to me a full synthetic is better when it comes to wear)


I actually have Walmart synthetic oil my Expedition right now.Seems to do just fine so far.

 

[alarmguy]

I could not agree more Idaho. Choose the proper API oil and your engine will last longer then you will keep the vehicle. We all (including me) love to analyze oil, yet the manufacturers of the vehicles tell us exactly what to use, if we just listen to them the engines will last longer then the vehicle, its why "Joe" next door who takes his car or truck to any Jiffy Lube type of place engine will last just as long.. and "Joe" doesnt care what kind of oil they use. )

 

[loneryder]

Originally Posted By: RevRider
Good Evening Alarmguy,

Thank you for your comments, I appreciate them.

I have never spent $15 per quart before, but my curiosity got the best of me.

I think the Valvoline UOA validates the quality of oil that it is and I was extremely happy with that report. I put in about 3.5 quarts, so at $6.00 per quart, it cost me $21 to fill the HOG; at $15 per quart, it cost me $52 for that change -- I like the $21 better.

I did re-fill with the Valvoline and plan to stick with it, unless another curiosity gets the better of me. Have you used Amsoil's product or Spectro in the engine? I use Spectro in the Transmission and Primary, very pleased with them.

I was thinking that the Red Line would assist in the engine running possibly cooler, but my observation is my EITM would kick in as before so I don't think the engine ran any cooler. I actually think, although I did not keep the count of times when the EITM activated, that it kicked in less with the Valvoline.

I'm no product fanboy, but I believe Valvoline has been making oil for over 100+ years, so they must be doing something right.

I just did my 10k service and I had to put in a new battery. My bike is coming up to 3 years old in November of this year, always kept on the Battery Tender, but the cranking power dropped significantly, my mechanic suggested I replace it. I noticed it was getting a little slower in firing up - I was hoping for more than 3 years on the battery, how is yours doing?

RevRider

I have always been a Mobil 1 guy in all my vehicles including mowers. I started using the Valvoline syn 20-50 because Walmart was always out of Mobil 1. I really like it and continue to use it. My engine is quieter and I had it tested after 12 months and 3k miles. It came back in great shape. 14 Ultra Ltd 103 with 7k miles on it now. Most of those 3k miles were in heavy traffic in Florida heat.

 

[alarmguy]

Hey Rev,
Funny you should bring up the battery. I replaced my battery back around Oct 2016. I have a noticed a steady decline of the ooph when cranking, in fact, I dont feel the OEM batter has every cranked strong.
Anyway I replaced it with a Yuasa GYZ32HL. Bike cranks stronger then it ever did. 500 CCA and was around $140 shipped to my house.

I have only used HD OEM Formula+ in the Transmission and Primary. I dont know why, I guess never really felt a reason to change, OEM prices yes but use so little of it, what the heck. Who knows, someday maybe I will, for the fun of it try another.

Currently in the engine I have been using only Mystik JT8 Semi-syn 15/50 for all oil changes.

First change back in 2014 I used HD conventional but since then I have been running the Mystik 15/50.
I have been using it for no other reason then it meets Harleys requirement for a commercial diesel oil if not using their own oil.
I tried the MYSTIK, was happy with it and MANY UOAs and a VOA that I posted in here, I guess, no reason to switch. Mystik is a product of Citgo Petroleum who, ironically makes HD oil.
The cost is in line with all other oils, actually its cheaper then almost all of them but NOT the reason I use it. I use it because they claim a commercial CH,CI,CJ rating. Since its a Citgo product no reason I should doubt them.
I pay less then $40 for a 2 gallon container delivered to my door from RuralKing.
My problem is, last order I placed was for 4 gallons, however, they made a mistake and sent me 4 gallons from two locations and I ended up with 4 - 2 gallon containers = 8 gallons.
So I guess I will keep using this oil for a long time, however I wont be comfortable having and using oil after sitting around for so long so will look to get rid of 2 or 4 gallons.

Also, for the fum of it, I got for a present and replaced the OEM 6 row oil cooler with a Jagg 10 row oil cooler, (no fan, but MAY do one) just a fun thing for me, I ride in a hot climate, Ill be interested to see in the summer if the oil runs a small amount cooler, again, fun thing. Oil for me typically runs 220 to 250 stop and go and highway. Harley says 230 is the normal range. Highway speeds are at the higher end of 250 which was a surprise, stopped traffic is not good either.

BTW, bike has been almost as flawless as it could be, over 15,000 miles now and no issues. 1 spark plug wire replaced under warranty (it was chaffed, rubbing against the frame), saddlebag latch recall, thats it for the last 2+ years.

 

[loneryder]

I was thinking that the Red Line would assist in the engine running possibly cooler, but my observation is my EITM would kick in as before so I don't think the engine ran any cooler. I actually think, although I did not keep the count of times when the EITM activated, that it kicked in less with the Valvoline.

Revrider, The EITM is controlled by air temp not engine temp. When air temp is in the 80's and you come to a stop, it kicks in. Sounds terrible but does help keep your crotch cooler. Disablle it and you will see a difference.

 

[benjy]

Red real synthetic oil has many benefits + worth the $$$ to me, yes i use it! as noted a motorcycle oil is not necessary in your bike + although yearly changes are recommended you may safely go 2 years unless you do too many short rides + due to Red's superior Ester oil formulation group V a lighter grade may benefit. to those who do not know MOST "synthetics" are group III highly refined CRUDE oils!

 

[benjy]

10,000 miles or a year whichever comes first with that real synthetic!