MotoMaster European Formula 0W40

[Barwich]

During the last couple trips to the local Candian Tire to pick up PP and PU I've noticed MotoMaster recently released European formula (5L) in 5w30, 0w30, and 0w40. I've never had time to check out the back, until today.

So 5w30 and 0w30 have the following approvals:

-VW 502.00, 505.00
-MB 229.3, 229.5
-API SN

0w40 has the above and BMW LL01.

I assume Formula Shell makes this oil?

On sale for $26.99 , this is easily the cheapest LL01 approved oil in Canada that I've came across. I bought two jugs for the 550i for the next oci, the 4.8 is pretty easy on oil. It will be a while but will get a uoa report when I drain it. If I didn't have such a big stash from the Penzoil sale I would absolutely stock up on this.

 

[Farmer]

I've seen Castrol 0W-40 for $26.99 but that was last boxing day. Wonder why it isn't Porsche A40 rated since its similar to 502/505.

 

[userfriendly]

Good score, where else can you get 0w40 for $5.50L?
I did a couple of laps around Newfie Speed & Custom today and spent $1.86 for a tool on the clearance table.
I was looking for 75w90 gear, but their prices are OTL on 1L packaging.

M-1 0w40 Delvac and 5w40 TDT were both $50 for 4.4L. I have no problem using pcmo in light truck Diesels (LML) as the soot loading is low compared to commercial OTR trucks.
The bulk place had 5w40 Delvac on for $127/20L, still over $6/L.

 

[ryan2022]

I've used the motomaster products for a number of years off and on, and have always had good luck. I've run their basic conventional, their synthetic 5w30 and now their semi syn ATF in my 5 speed.

It always seems to work well.

 

[ryan2022]

Hey, Barwich, where are you in Alberta? I'm just North of Calgary.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: Farmer
Wonder why it isn't Porsche A40 rated since its similar to 502/505.


It's not rated anything, correct? Just "Suitable for use". It doesn't actually carry any of the listed specifications.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: Barwich
On sale for $26.99 , this is easily the cheapest LL01 approved oil in Canada that I've came across.


Do you have a PDS or something that says it is Longlife-01 approved or just that statement on the bottle? The wording on the bottle is not an approval statement.

 

[Farmer]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: Farmer
Wonder why it isn't Porsche A40 rated since its similar to 502/505.


It's not rated anything, correct? Just "Suitable for use". It doesn't actually carry any of the listed specifications.


Oh, now I get it they're doing what some boutique internet order oils do. Claim they meet spec but not have it certified.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: Farmer
Oh, now I get it they're doing what some boutique internet order oils do. Claim they meet spec but not have it certified.


Well I would say it is less of a claim than that, "suitable for" doesn't say "this oil meets the requirements of BMW Longlife-01 and if we chose to have it certified it would pass", this just says it is suitable. Which of course may mean that out of all the oils that company sells this is the most suitable. Or not. Or maybe.

 

[PFP]

Originally Posted By: Farmer
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: Farmer
Wonder why it isn't Porsche A40 rated since its similar to 502/505.


It's not rated anything, correct? Just "Suitable for use". It doesn't actually carry any of the listed specifications.


Oh, now I get it they're doing what some boutique internet order oils do. Claim they meet spec but not have it certified.


Not true. CT probably just does not pay for the certification, to keep the price low. This is a high volume national chain and the oils are produced by Shell and Imperial Oil (Exxon-Mobil), who would not blend a boutique internet oil. This is similar to the situation with NAPA synthetic - you can't keep prices down if you are paying for every possible certification, but you can sell something with a close additive package to your other oils (Pennzoil Platinum, Mobil 1, etc) that are certified. Use it with confidence. My only caution would be that if you have a DI engine, it may be more volatile than the name brand and result in more intake valve deposits.

 

[kschachn]

It certainly is true. When an oil does not carry a certification you generally have no idea why it does not. It may mean they aren't willing to obtain it, or it may mean it will not pass. To speculate that it is for one reason or another is an argument without merit. I would not use that oil "with confidence" for any of the certifications listed on that label except for SN. That's the only one it is stating that it meets.

And the old argument that companies want to keep prices low as being the reason for no certifications is getting bit tired. If they are a "high volume national chain" then they can pay for the certifications.

Certification is the basis for being able to use a particular oil "with confidence", not the other way around.

Originally Posted By: PFP
Not true. CT probably just does not pay for the certification, to keep the price low. This is a high volume national chain and the oils are produced by Shell and Imperial Oil (Exxon-Mobil), who would not blend a boutique internet oil. This is similar to the situation with NAPA synthetic - you can't keep prices down if you are paying for every possible certification, but you can sell something with a close additive package to your other oils (Pennzoil Platinum, Mobil 1, etc) that are certified. Use it with confidence. My only caution would be that if you have a DI engine, it may be more volatile than the name brand and result in more intake valve deposits.

 

[userfriendly]

Its licensed API SN, and with it goes the volatility concerns.
If nothing else, a 0W40 SN for half the price as soon to be obsolete 0W40 CJ-4/SN when CK-4 hits the shelves in 6 weeks.
My guess is that its either T-6, Syntec or the old M-1 blend in a Newfie Speed 'n Custom bottle.

 

[BobFout]

Originally Posted By: userfriendly
Its licensed API SN, and with it goes the volatility concerns.
If nothing else, a 0W40 SN for half the price as soon to be obsolete 0W40 CJ-4/SN when CK-4 hits the shelves in 6 weeks.
My guess is that its either T-6, Syntec or the old M-1 blend in a Newfie Speed 'n Custom bottle.


SN's max allowed NOACK is ... tragically comic.

 

[userfriendly]

Some 0W40s are a joke too, with the same HTHS as Delo 400 15w30 and thick HDEO SAE30s.
It can't be Petro-Canada's Duron E 0W40, 'cause it ain't licensed 'nuttin, just "suitable for".

 

[PFP]

It certainly is true. When an oil does not carry a certification you generally have no idea why it does not. It may mean they aren't willing to obtain it, or it may mean it will not pass. To speculate that it is for one reason or another is an argument without merit. I would not use that oil "with confidence" for any of the certifications listed on that label except for SN. That's the only one it is stating that it meets.

And the old argument that companies want to keep prices low as being the reason for no certifications is getting bit tired. If they are a "high volume national chain" then they can pay for the certifications.

Certification is the basis for being able to use a particular oil "with confidence", not the other way around.

Do you seriously think that a major national chain is going to risk its reputation and customer base by printing on its oil containers that the oil can be used for vehicles requiring LLO1, etc. without actually having done testing and knowing that the base oil and additive package meets these requirements? Would you avoid using the current M1 0W40 in a BMW because it is not LL01 "certified"?

 

[Barwich]

Originally Posted By: ryan2022
Hey, Barwich, where are you in Alberta? I'm just North of Calgary.


North of Calgary myself too, in Red Deer. For most of the year anyways.

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: Farmer
Wonder why it isn't Porsche A40 rated since its similar to 502/505.


It's not rated anything, correct? Just "Suitable for use". It doesn't actually carry any of the listed specifications.


Yes Sir. My apologies, made the thread too early in the A.M and only glanced at the picture. It is only 'suitable for use'. That throws a wrench into the whole point of this thread lol. Anyways will do a UOA when I do use the oil sometime next year. Maybe I'll just do a short 10k oci to be safe.

 

[BobFout]

With no listed vehicles still under factory warranty, official OEM approval isn't an issue, as long as you believe the manufacturer's claims.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: PFP
Do you seriously think that a major national chain is going to risk its reputation and customer base by printing on its oil containers that the oil can be used for vehicles requiring LLO1, etc. without actually having done testing and knowing that the base oil and additive package meets these requirements? Would you avoid using the current M1 0W40 in a BMW because it is not LL01 "certified"?


I have no idea what a national chain would do or not do. All I know is that the oil being sold is not certified to those specifications.

And yes, I've already posted numerous times that I've moved five feet down the Walmart aisle to Castrol 0W-40 that does carry Longlife-01. But that's me here in the US where things are cheaper. If you want to use it to save some money, go ahead. But no one should say or imply in this thread that the oil carries the certification or is "just as good" because no one knows.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: BobFout
With no listed vehicles still under factory warranty, official OEM approval isn't an issue, as long as you believe the manufacturer's claims.


Of course. But certifications exist for reasons other than warranty compliance, they show that an oil will perform to a standard. When the oil does not show it meets that standard then it may under-perform in use in ways that are unpredictable. How do you know it meets the oxidation stability required? Or stays in grade? Or meets the minimum HTHS? You don't.

Even if it meets "most" of what the certification requires, how do I know which aspects it may not? Do I adjust my OCI to something less than I might use with a certified oil? How much less?

 

[BobFout]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: BobFout
With no listed vehicles still under factory warranty, official OEM approval isn't an issue, as long as you believe the manufacturer's claims.


Of course. But certifications exist for reasons other than warranty compliance, they show that an oil will perform to a standard. When the oil does not show it meets that standard then it may under-perform in use in ways that are unpredictable. How do you know it meets the oxidation stability required? Or stays in grade? Or meets the minimum HTHS? You don't.

Even if it meets "most" of what the certification requires, how do I know which aspects it may not? Do I adjust my OCI to something less than I might use with a certified oil? How much less?


Lab testing shows how an oil performs compared to standards. Certification, like licensing, are part lab test results, part money exchange. It boils down to if you believe the performance claims of the company, if they and their additive suppliers have done their due diligence with testing. Lubricant manufacturers are liable for damage caused by their products if used consistent with labeling.