Unknown oil, 2005 Liberty 3.7, ?~5k mi

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So my daughter has gotten her license and decided the car for her is a Liberty. After much shopping we found an 05, 170K miles she bought in Sept 2015. Trans needs five seconds to engage from park, so I'm guessing the clutch volumes for the 1st pack are through the roof. Suspension is tight, no rattles, it took an alignment well after I replaced the rear upper arm. On a cold start it rattles for a second or two then is quiet. Now her daily commute is ½ a mile each way. Plus the usual running around teenagers do, over the first year she did 4600 miles. Oil is always full and not dark. Filter was new so I assume the used car lot changed it when they got it. Sent the first change in for analysis and the results are posted below.


Please discuss.
 
Originally Posted By: Chris142
Does it have a hole in the air filter? Lots of iron and silicone in it



Silicon. Silicon is not silicone.
 
Originally Posted By: Chris142
Does it have a hole in the air filter? Lots of iron and silicone in it


The Silicon figure is high but not high enough to account for the high Iron and Aluminium figures. Iron is a general wear indicator and the Al is probably from the cylinder block.

I would change the oil and filters (Make sure the air intake and filter housing are good), then just do a 3000 mile run to see if the figurers improve.

If there are no signs of sludge (Lumps in the old oil or a flickering warning light at hot idle after a good run), just use a major brand full synthetic with the correct API and viscosity range. If the owners handbook or oil company finder or guide page of their web site lists an Xw20, then move up to an 0w30 as this is an older block.

Change the transmission fluid twice unless it looks like new.
 
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Originally Posted By: shDK
Does she really start the car to drive it 1/2 mile?


What's wrong with that? Where I live, you can see 100+ with 80+% humidity in the summer. And there are no sidewalks.

Some places are similar, but with cold weather.

I've started my car to let the AC run before driving 1/2 miles before. I've done the same with heat elsewhere.

So much self-righteousness from every angle on this site.
 
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A car is meant to serve the owner, not the other way around. I've seen some people just about worship the car.
 
I completely disagree with the previous comment about the aluminum coming from the block. For starters, it has a cast iron block. Even if it was an aluminum block it would have steel/cast iron sleeves or some other exotic material for cylinder liners. Aluminum block engines rarely have aluminum cylinders (I can't think of any off the top of my head). Due to the lack of lead in the sample, the more likely answer is that the aluminum is from the piston skirts and quite likely the engine bearings. I agree with others to check the air filter and to check for other vacuum leaks that would allow un filtered air into the engine. Since this engine uses roller camshaft followers aside from an outright failure, the iron is not likely coming from the cam. I'd strongly suspect dirt ingestion combined with her short trips as the cause of the high wear numbers.
 
This is from an 06 Liberty 3.7 after 6800 miles. A UOA from a few threads down. I knew I saw another Liberty uoa recently. Both have high Iron readings but on this report the silicon is normal.

Originally Posted By: zrxkawboy
OIL Conklin Convoy 5W30
MILES IN USE 6870
MILES 113,774
SAMPLE TAKEN 7/12/16

ALUMINUM 12
CHROMIUM 2
IRON 128
COPPER 3
LEAD TIN 1
MOLYBDENUM 562
NICKEL 3
POTASSIUM BORON 24
SILICON 18
SODIUM 21
CALCIUM 2248
MAGNESIUM 12
PHOSPHORUS 756
ZINC 966


WATER cSt @ 212ºF 11.9




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


My wife normally drives this Jeep. The oil was run for about a year, so lots of cold starts and short trips through a SD winter (though I make sure to take it out on the road for a good warm-up at least every 2 weeks). Then in June, we took it to CO and spent a few days on the trails of the San Juans. It runs very well...not sure what is going on with the high iron. I'll sample it again next year.
 
Originally Posted By: FlyNavyP3
I completely disagree with the previous comment about the aluminum coming from the block. For starters, it has a cast iron block. Even if it was an aluminum block it would have steel/cast iron sleeves or some other exotic material for cylinder liners. Aluminum block engines rarely have aluminum cylinders (I can't think of any off the top of my head). Due to the lack of lead in the sample, the more likely answer is that the aluminum is from the piston skirts and quite likely the engine bearings. I agree with others to check the air filter and to check for other vacuum leaks that would allow un filtered air into the engine. Since this engine uses roller camshaft followers aside from an outright failure, the iron is not likely coming from the cam. I'd strongly suspect dirt ingestion combined with her short trips as the cause of the high wear numbers.


Hyundai has one, the 1.4/1.6 gas engine
 
So liner or no liner ? - I find more of the German cars do the aluminum bore with an exotic plating inside ID ...
 
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
Originally Posted By: shDK
Does she really start the car to drive it 1/2 mile?


What's wrong with that? Where I live, you can see 100+ with 80+% humidity in the summer. And there are no sidewalks.

Some places are similar, but with cold weather.

I've started my car to let the AC run before driving 1/2 miles before. I've done the same with heat elsewhere.

So much self-righteousness from every angle on this site.


I never meant to be " self-righteous " or judge anyone. I was just genuine surprised anyone would start a car to drive 1/2 a mile. I apologize for offending you, if that was the case.
 
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
Originally Posted By: FlyNavyP3
I completely disagree with the previous comment about the aluminum coming from the block. For starters, it has a cast iron block. Even if it was an aluminum block it would have steel/cast iron sleeves or some other exotic material for cylinder liners. Aluminum block engines rarely have aluminum cylinders (I can't think of any off the top of my head). Due to the lack of lead in the sample, the more likely answer is that the aluminum is from the piston skirts and quite likely the engine bearings. I agree with others to check the air filter and to check for other vacuum leaks that would allow un filtered air into the engine. Since this engine uses roller camshaft followers aside from an outright failure, the iron is not likely coming from the cam. I'd strongly suspect dirt ingestion combined with her short trips as the cause of the high wear numbers.


Hyundai has one, the 1.4/1.6 gas engine


"The main block features a ladder frame construction for structural stiffness while its cylinders are fitted with cast-iron liners for improved abrasion durability." Taken from a quick google search of the Hyundai Kappa engine line.

There is no aluminum alloy composition made that will resist the abrasion wear of a cylinder.

The only engine I'm familiar with that had an unlined aluminum block were the original production Chevrolet Vega's. The 2.3L Vega engine used an unlined Aluminium alloy block with siamese cylinders and no liners a cast iron crank and main caps and a cast iron SOCH head. We all know how that worked out for GM.
 
Oil was changed at this time to Mobil1 5W30.
After I got the report back I changed the AF. Old filter didn't look bad, no holes but the edge seals were hard.
No leaks noted in intake system.
Her having a car adds a lot of flexibility to our lives. She can drive herself to work, after school activities, studying with friends etc.
 
The short commutes propably have their toll on the engine. It should last you 10 years though with which I guess you are happy! Just put the thinnest oil recommended by the factory and change it every year as you did.
 
Originally Posted By: FlyNavyP3
I completely disagree with the previous comment about the aluminum coming from the block. For starters, it has a cast iron block. Even if it was an aluminum block it would have steel/cast iron sleeves or some other exotic material for cylinder liners. Aluminum block engines rarely have aluminum cylinders (I can't think of any off the top of my head). Due to the lack of lead in the sample, the more likely answer is that the aluminum is from the piston skirts and quite likely the engine bearings. I agree with others to check the air filter and to check for other vacuum leaks that would allow un filtered air into the engine. Since this engine uses roller camshaft followers aside from an outright failure, the iron is not likely coming from the cam. I'd strongly suspect dirt ingestion combined with her short trips as the cause of the high wear numbers.


I don't know the exact metals used in this engine, but most cylinder blocks in recent cars are aluminium alloy and when the block or liners (If it has them) are corroded or subject to extreme wear a UOA will show a higher level of Aluminium. There is no way in UOA terms to know if it is from corrosion of the pistons or cylinder walls.
THE SILICON FIGURE IS NOWHERE NEAR HIGH ENOUGH to cause the high Iron or Al figures and short tripping is not the cause, as it does not show significant fuel contamination.
The limit for long term wear rates for Si should be around 30 ppm for a 5K mile OCI, BUT that will only cause a very minor increase in wear metals.
Driver style during cold starts in particular can double some of the wear metals, but I doubt if that is the cause although it could be a factor in this case.
 
Originally Posted By: 4WD
So liner or no liner ? - I find more of the German cars do the aluminum bore with an exotic plating inside ID ...


no liner, exotic plating/casting in the bores
 
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