Oil recommendation - '09 MB C300

[pezzy669]

Hey all,

Recently picked up a very gently used '09 MB C300 that was previously leased by some older lady in Miami, then was 2nd hand a older (65+) ladies car here in Atlanta. I highly doubt this this has recently (if ever) been pushed hard, it took ½ dozen or so sporty takeoff starts to get the 1st gear kick down working again.

Anyway she is a dream and has been "maintained". I use that term loosely as first owner (lease) had it serviced on time and regularly at a Chevy dealership of all places so not sure what kinda oil it was fed the first ~30k miles. Second owner had the car to 62.5k miles and had it serviced at the independent shop of the strictly used Mercedes dealership I bought it from. Sales guy assured me they use 229.5 fluid and it was serviced at trade in. Think both prior owners would be best left in Toyotas as none of the recalls have been addressed and I highly doubt they did anything above and beyond oil changes.

Except for the "common" but pesky bottom end knock/rattle that has afflicted many M272 engines (3.0 and 3.5) it runs smooth as butter, makes great power and easily beats EPA city and highway estimates. I am sure the internals are probably pretty decent but I want to up it as this is a car I intend on keeping for awhile. The bottom end rattle/knocking at startup is common and according to Mercedes will not damage the engine, there are posts online from back in the day of people with 1,000 mile C300/C350's having this start at nearly new. In my car it happens sporadically, it will go days at a time without doing it then do it 3-4 times in the same day.

Was thinking doing a few runs of Delvac-1 5W-40 for some of the cleaning benefits of an HDEO then moving to PP 5W-40. My next B service is in ~3 months in which I plan on having all the maintenance i am assuming has been deferred (trains fluid, brake fluid, air and cabin filters) is brought up to date. After I am going to do the trans fluid at each oil change for a few times after as there have been ~2-3 bang into gears moment where some traffic situation has me lifting off the throttle during a gear change.

Thoughts? Seems PP is one of the best oils out there currently, but jeez is it pricy.

Thanks in advance!

 

[pezzy669]

Two quick items I forgot to mention

- I am running strictly E85. Unless I experience starting problems during the winter this car will be 100% E85 fueled. Owners manual says to tell your service advisor if you run E85, are there more intense service requirements in this case.

- Does not seem to burn much if any oil. Have done ~2000 miles since I bought it and dipstick level hasn't budged.

 

[il_signore97]

Congrats on the new purchase. I have the same car, but in a 6-speed manual (lol yes Benz did make a few of these rarities). I also maintain 2 other C300's in the family, and some other Benz vehicles as well, so I can offer you my opinion on your questions above.

Firstly, the start up knock is well documented as you stated. Mine does it occasionally, usually on a somewhat warm engine (never cold), and mostly towards the end of my oil change interval. The only fix is to have Benz tear open the engine and install tighter bearing caps on the mains. Apparently some M272 engines had bearing clearances on the higher end of the tolerance spec, hence the occasional noise. Don't worry about it if you ask me. All of these engines will outlive the car. Mine also uses no perceivable oil during the 13k mile interval.

For oil, definitely sick to a 229.5 approved product. Given that there are a couple of amazing 0W40's out there for a great price, that is usually what I use in all of the vehicles I maintain. I have been using castrol 0w40 for the most part, but I have used m1 as well. No issues here with either. Since you don't have nearly as harsh a winter, you could also easily use any approved 5w40. Skip the unapproved oils. No need for any cleaning as these engines are easy on oil with their huge sump. Maybe just shorten the next few oil changes a bit. Also, you should be doing that anyway when using e85, as it will cause increased oil degradation and fuel dilution. I think you already stated that above in your original post.

I would change all filters and brake fluid at this time so you're starting with a known history. After that, just follow the car's on board secret maintenance menu that will tell you exactly what services it needs at every upcoming interval. It tells you everything except trans fluid changes, as that was the subject of a technical service bulletin after the car's release.

Speaking of trans fluid, this car has a torque converter drain allowing you to pretty much get all of the fluid out. No need for repeated fluid changes like with other cars. Just pull the pan, change the filter, drain the torque converter, and correctly set the fluid level according to the exact MB procedure. There is an updated trans fluid pan that you will need to buy if you don't already have it. It is to prevent fluid starvation in certain driving situations. Check on that before you service it and have the right parts on hand. Trans fluid and filter should be done every 40k as is recommended in the rest of the world by MB.

Other than that, our c-classes have been relatively trouble free. Let me know if you need any other details about what the service numbers in the secret menu mean, or if you have any other questions in general. Enjoy the ride!

 

[Vern_in_IL]

Quote:
Nothing More Expensive then a Cheap Mercedes.


Ya hear that above quote, hopefully the car you have is the "bare bones" model without all the expensive electronics.



My prognosis is your engine is clean and if you do as you propose, you will just waste money. If the maintenance is as you say, it is already clean, and oil will not fix a mechanical issue. stick with any oil that meets the Benz spec, and is the lowest cost.

 

[Wolf359]

I have an E350 which has the same M272 engine. I've been using Mobil 1 and Castrol 0w40 and 0w30 in it. Autozone had some good clearance sales on $2 Castrol in December. There's the $12 rebate on Mobil 1 0w40 which you can get at Walmart for $22.88 so it's $10.88 after rebate for a 5 quart jug. I also picked up a bunch of PP 5w40, but haven't had a chance to run it yet. I'm just going to use whatever oil is on sale and meets MB specs and those I mentioned all do.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: Vern_in_IL
Quote:
Nothing More Expensive then a Cheap Mercedes.


Ya hear that above quote, hopefully the car you have is the "bare bones" model without all the expensive electronics.



My prognosis is your engine is clean and if you do as you propose, you will just waste money. If the maintenance is as you say, it is already clean, and oil will not fix a mechanical issue. stick with any oil that meets the Benz spec, and is the lowest cost.


They're all fun, my bixenons, pano roof, power trunk closer, navigation, bluetooth, keyless go all still work in a car that's 8 years old.

 

[DoubleWasp]

No reason to run anything besides the most common European Car 0W40's.

 

[Popsy]

M1 0W40 or Mercedes/AMG branded 229.5 oil are what these cars get at the local Mercedes dealership last time I checked.

I remember seeing some Elf 0W30 in the past, which was 229.5 too.

 

[pezzy669]

Originally Posted By: il_signore97
Congrats on the new purchase. I have the same car, but in a 6-speed manual (lol yes Benz did make a few of these rarities). I also maintain 2 other C300's in the family, and some other Benz vehicles as well, so I can offer you my opinion on your questions above.

Firstly, the start up knock is well documented as you stated. Mine does it occasionally, usually on a somewhat warm engine (never cold), and mostly towards the end of my oil change interval. The only fix is to have Benz tear open the engine and install tighter bearing caps on the mains. Apparently some M272 engines had bearing clearances on the higher end of the tolerance spec, hence the occasional noise. Don't worry about it if you ask me. All of these engines will outlive the car. Mine also uses no perceivable oil during the 13k mile interval.

For oil, definitely sick to a 229.5 approved product. Given that there are a couple of amazing 0W40's out there for a great price, that is usually what I use in all of the vehicles I maintain. I have been using castrol 0w40 for the most part, but I have used m1 as well. No issues here with either. Since you don't have nearly as harsh a winter, you could also easily use any approved 5w40. Skip the unapproved oils. No need for any cleaning as these engines are easy on oil with their huge sump. Maybe just shorten the next few oil changes a bit. Also, you should be doing that anyway when using e85, as it will cause increased oil degradation and fuel dilution. I think you already stated that above in your original post.

I would change all filters and brake fluid at this time so you're starting with a known history. After that, just follow the car's on board secret maintenance menu that will tell you exactly what services it needs at every upcoming interval. It tells you everything except trans fluid changes, as that was the subject of a technical service bulletin after the car's release.

Speaking of trans fluid, this car has a torque converter drain allowing you to pretty much get all of the fluid out. No need for repeated fluid changes like with other cars. Just pull the pan, change the filter, drain the torque converter, and correctly set the fluid level according to the exact MB procedure. There is an updated trans fluid pan that you will need to buy if you don't already have it. It is to prevent fluid starvation in certain driving situations. Check on that before you service it and have the right parts on hand. Trans fluid and filter should be done every 40k as is recommended in the rest of the world by MB.

Other than that, our c-classes have been relatively trouble free. Let me know if you need any other details about what the service numbers in the secret menu mean, or if you have any other questions in general. Enjoy the ride!


Thank you for the insider knowledge of this generation C. Especially on the lower end knock, as much as I read that it is fine you and I both know it's really not a pretty noise coming out of a car whose manufacturer prides and proclaims their engineering abilities.

On the torque converter drain plug, do you think or know if MB dealerships or independents would go the extra mile to do this during a service? I don't have the facilities to do beyond basic (cabin filter, air filters or fluid checks) service to my car so am relegated to independents and dealerships.

 

[pezzy669]

Originally Posted By: Vern_in_IL
Quote:
Nothing More Expensive then a Cheap Mercedes.


Ya hear that above quote, hopefully the car you have is the "bare bones" model without all the expensive electronics.



My prognosis is your engine is clean and if you do as you propose, you will just waste money. If the maintenance is as you say, it is already clean, and oil will not fix a mechanical issue. stick with any oil that meets the Benz spec, and is the lowest cost.


Thanks for your input! Agree the engine is probably clean but wanted to get her off to a fresh start which I will be doing in the next week or so.

She is definitely bare bones. This is the car they would bring to you for test drive if you asked about the TV/online lease deal. C300 luxury with not a single option.

 

[il_signore97]

Originally Posted By: pezzy669
Thank you for the insider knowledge of this generation C. Especially on the lower end knock, as much as I read that it is fine you and I both know it's really not a pretty noise coming out of a car whose manufacturer prides and proclaims their engineering abilities.


Agreed, and no problem! It's just one of those things that you really can't do anything about unless you were able to push MB to fix it under warranty. I wouldn't pay big bucks to have that corrected when it likely will not impact the lifespan of the engine at all.

Originally Posted By: pezzy669
On the torque converter drain plug, do you think or know if MB dealerships or independents would go the extra mile to do this during a service? I don't have the facilities to do beyond basic (cabin filter, air filters or fluid checks) service to my car so am relegated to independents and dealerships.


MB dealerships that follow the MB WIS procedures should always drain the torque converter as part of a service when it is available. Sadly, this is not always the case. MB removed torque converter drains in the early 2000's for several years when they were touting their "sealed for life" transmissions. We all know how well that worked. Not only did they back track on the "sealed for life" part, they also re-introduced torque converter drains back in 2006 or 2007 (depending on the model). In reality, all W204 C-classes should have the drain. It's just trying to get the dealer to acknowledge that it exists is the hard part

If you have a knowledgeable independent German car specialist that you know, he/she should be able to quickly find the torque converter drain and use it as part of your normal trans fluid / filter change procedure. He should also know that on the 722.9 7G-Tronic transmission, it gets filled from underneath through the drain plug, and that an appropriate scan tool must be connected to verify correct fluid level before closing up the unit and sending it on it's way. Also, the pan bolts, pan gasket, filter, drain/fill plug stand pipe, and drain plugs/washers should be replaced at every service, or it may leak. MB had many different transmissions over the past decade, and some have different service procedures than others, understandably causing confusion.

Do check to make sure you have the new pan design though. I think the new pan has a 45 degree bevel at the front end of it to allow fluid to flow towards the pickup tube, whereas the original pan was flat. I would check with a real Benz dealer to determine which pan your car came with, and if it was ever changed. If not, get the new pan, because the drain/fill plug stand pipe and gasket were also updated to reflect the new pan design.

 

[GermanCarDriver]

Originally Posted By: Wolf359
I have an E350 which has the same M272 engine. I've been using Mobil 1 and Castrol 0w40 and 0w30 in it. Autozone had some good clearance sales on $2 Castrol in December. There's the $12 rebate on Mobil 1 0w40 which you can get at Walmart for $22.88 so it's $10.88 after rebate for a 5 quart jug. I also picked up a bunch of PP 5w40, but haven't had a chance to run it yet. I'm just going to use whatever oil is on sale and meets MB specs and those I mentioned all do.


The current Mobil 1 rebate listed on the site that I see does not include WalMart as a valid retailer.

Originally Posted By: pezzy669
Two quick items I forgot to mention

- I am running strictly E85. Unless I experience starting problems during the winter this car will be 100% E85 fueled. Owners manual says to tell your service advisor if you run E85, are there more intense service requirements in this case.

- Does not seem to burn much if any oil. Have done ~2000 miles since I bought it and dipstick level hasn't budged.


Because I am curious, why are you so hung up on E85?

 

[pezzy669]

Originally Posted By: GermanCarDriver
Originally Posted By: Wolf359

Two quick items I forgot to mention

- I am running strictly E85. Unless I experience starting problems during the winter this car will be 100% E85 fueled. Owners manual says to tell your service advisor if you run E85, are there more intense service requirements in this case.

- Does not seem to burn much if any oil. Have done ~2000 miles since I bought it and dipstick level hasn't budged.


Because I am curious, why are you so hung up on E85?


Not hung up on it per say, it just works out as a benefit for me at the time being. It saves me $$ on freeway trips and I am about break even in my [censored] stop and go city driving.

Benefits

- Price ($1.89 vs $3.39 currently here in Atlanta)
- Emissions (know there are people in both pro and con camps of E85)
- Fuel and combustion chamber cleaning/cleanliness properties.
- Huge reduction in soot formation which affects your exhaust components and car rear end cleanliness.
- Large chunk of fuel purchased is renewable domestic source.
- Pleasant smelling cold start exhaust (I know this is silly)

Cons

- Fuel economy. (18/26 on premium, 13/19 E85 per EPA). I can easily hit 20 mpg vs 27 on long freeway trips, 100% city stop and go averages me ~10 mpg vs the ~13 I saw on premium. Sometimes E85 use costs me more per tank. Yeah my commute pattern achieves me horrific fuel economy, even my 28 mpg rated Fiat 500 struggled to average 20 mpg in my commute.
- No solid backup on emissions claims, I just want to know is it or is it not better for environment.
- Cold starting. Even dropping to low 70's in the morning I have experienced some stumbling for the first few minutes. Very curious to see what it does in the 20's and 30's.
- Availbility. Fortunately I have a E85 station ~1 mile from me so fill ups are not an issue. But due to few stations so I have to go either very early or very late as if I go mid-day the single E85 pump will have mostly GM vehicles jockeying for the pump. Then when I finally get to fill ½ have one of those GM drivers try to call me out for using E85 in a Mercedes, 100% of them look like a ghost when I invite them over to look at the fuel door and prove them wrong.

I can't complain about 1.5 months on E85, performance dropped significantly when I switched until the ECU could adjust to the new fuel. After 2-3 tanks of E85 it now feels stronger than it did on premium.

To each their own, unless E85 price swings way out of proportion to where it is costing me way more $5/tank then I'm gonna be burning it for the foreseeable future.

 

[AIRJAC3]

Originally Posted By: GermanCarDriver
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
I have an E350 which has the same M272 engine. I've been using Mobil 1 and Castrol 0w40 and 0w30 in it. Autozone had some good clearance sales on $2 Castrol in December. There's the $12 rebate on Mobil 1 0w40 which you can get at Walmart for $22.88 so it's $10.88 after rebate for a 5 quart jug. I also picked up a bunch of PP 5w40, but haven't had a chance to run it yet. I'm just going to use whatever oil is on sale and meets MB specs and those I mentioned all do.


The current Mobil 1 rebate listed on the site that I see does not include WalMart as a valid retailer.


I just got back $24 today fron Mobil for two 5 qt bottles from a Wal Mart purchase.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: AIRJAC3
Originally Posted By: GermanCarDriver
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
I have an E350 which has the same M272 engine. I've been using Mobil 1 and Castrol 0w40 and 0w30 in it. Autozone had some good clearance sales on $2 Castrol in December. There's the $12 rebate on Mobil 1 0w40 which you can get at Walmart for $22.88 so it's $10.88 after rebate for a 5 quart jug. I also picked up a bunch of PP 5w40, but haven't had a chance to run it yet. I'm just going to use whatever oil is on sale and meets MB specs and those I mentioned all do.


The current Mobil 1 rebate listed on the site that I see does not include WalMart as a valid retailer.


I just got back $24 today fron Mobil for two 5 qt bottles from a Wal Mart purchase.


Oh yeah, while Walmart isn't listed, they've always honored it in the past. Still good til Oct 31st, 2016.

http://slickdeals.net/f/8979959-12-rebat...?src=SiteSearch

I'd get more, but I still got a lot of Castrol 0w30/0w40 from the Autozone clearance at $2 a quart.

Also around here E85 isn't much cheaper than regular gas so once you factor in lower btu content, it's actually more expensive. However if you're in the corn belt and they don't have to ship it far, E85 can be cheaper than regular gas even after factoring in the lower btu content so using E85 is just good economic sense if you car can use. I don't think they ever had flex fuel for the E class W211/W212 though.