A3/B4 oil use instead of A5/B5

[radu]

Hey guys,

Like i said in the title, can i use something like motul xcess 5w40 in an european ford mondeo diesel?
It has been running on ford formula f 5w30 since new.
It currently has 420k kms. The engine is ok but noisy. I want see if running a thicker oil makes any difference.

Thanks!

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: radu
Hey guys,

Like i said in the title, can i use something like motul xcess 5w40 in an european ford mondeo diesel?
It has been running on ford formula f 5w30 since new.
It currently has 420k kms. The engine is ok but noisy. I want see if running a thicker oil makes any difference.

Thanks!


Maybe you should start with C3 5W30 like Mobil1 5W30 ESP, or Castrol LL-03.

 

[double vanos]

First off .....

WELCOME TO BITOG!

Jeez, Romania. I'm not sure what oil is available to you there but I have routinely used thicker than spec oils in all kinds of cars over the years with no problems whatsoever. I'm currently running Castrol Edge 0w40 in my Ecoboost pickup which is thicker than factory spec and the thing loves it. I say press on and try it!

 

[4WD]

Romania has some of the big popular brands - I'd stick with those. From all the high performance cars and large equipment I have seen in Bucharest - you should have several good choices in the stronger oils.
You already have a clean low sulphur diesel fuel there - that's a plus.
Find a good price !

 

[Falcon_LS]

I would definitely try Mobil 1 5W-30 ESP, if it's not too expensive compared to an A3/B4 oil. Otherwise, definitely try something like Castrol Edge 0W-40.

 

[chrisri]

Yes you can use A3/B4 oils in A5/B5 applications. You can't go the other way round. Do not use C3 in this engine, it's an older design, and you aren't DPF equipped.

Shell Helix Ultra 5w40 is best choice for most of the EU, it's cheaper than competitors , yet top tier. Valvoline SynPower and MaxLife 5w40 are also good choices.

 

[radu]

Originally Posted By: double vanos
First off .....

WELCOME TO BITOG!

Jeez, Romania. I'm not sure what oil is available to you there but I have routinely used thicker than spec oils in all kinds of cars over the years with no problems whatsoever. I'm currently running Castrol Edge 0w40 in my Ecoboost pickup which is thicker than factory spec and the thing loves it. I say press on and try it!


Nice meeting you

!

Well, oil availability is not a problem here actually and prices are not that high. For example, Xcess 5w40 is ~35 USD for 5L and ~8 USD for 1L.
I forgot to say that the engine is an older 2.0 (2003) turbodiesel with vp44 injection, no DPF and the EGR is deleted since ~250k kms.
Formula F oil is 5w30 A5/B5 and C2/C3. And the diesel is low sulphur.
This is my old man's car and I know that Xcess is a great oil, i'm using it in my e39 diesel since forever and I know it's a bit on the thicker side of w40. I don't want to try another C3 oil since it doesn't really need one.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: radu
Originally Posted By: double vanos
First off .....

WELCOME TO BITOG!

Jeez, Romania. I'm not sure what oil is available to you there but I have routinely used thicker than spec oils in all kinds of cars over the years with no problems whatsoever. I'm currently running Castrol Edge 0w40 in my Ecoboost pickup which is thicker than factory spec and the thing loves it. I say press on and try it!


Nice meeting you

!

Well, oil availability is not a problem here actually and prices are not that high. For example, Xcess 5w40 is ~35 USD for 5L and ~8 USD for 1L.
I forgot to say that the engine is an older 2.0 (2003) turbodiesel with vp44 injection, no DPF and the EGR is deleted since ~250k kms.
Formula F oil is 5w30 A5/B5 and C2/C3. And the diesel is low sulphur.
This is my old man's car and I know that Xcess is a great oil, i'm using it in my e39 diesel since forever and I know it's a bit on the thicker side of w40. I don't want to try another C3 oil since it doesn't really need one.

I would just go with Castrol or Mobil1 0W40.

 

[Jetronic]

Originally Posted By: radu
Originally Posted By: double vanos
First off .....

WELCOME TO BITOG!

Jeez, Romania. I'm not sure what oil is available to you there but I have routinely used thicker than spec oils in all kinds of cars over the years with no problems whatsoever. I'm currently running Castrol Edge 0w40 in my Ecoboost pickup which is thicker than factory spec and the thing loves it. I say press on and try it!


Nice meeting you

!

Well, oil availability is not a problem here actually and prices are not that high. For example, Xcess 5w40 is ~35 USD for 5L and ~8 USD for 1L.
I forgot to say that the engine is an older 2.0 (2003) turbodiesel with vp44 injection, no DPF and the EGR is deleted since ~250k kms.
Formula F oil is 5w30 A5/B5 and C2/C3. And the diesel is low sulphur.
This is my old man's car and I know that Xcess is a great oil, i'm using it in my e39 diesel since forever and I know it's a bit on the thicker side of w40. I don't want to try another C3 oil since it doesn't really need one.


You already are running a C2 oil if what you typed above is correct.

 

[radu]

Yes, but only because I wanted to stick with the Ford spec, 913C. It's the same oil that goes in new Fords and since 2005ish all have DPF. I was concerned about the impact on fuel consumption with an oil that is not A5/B5 or if there is another reason why it needs this kind of oil.

Anyway, thank you all. I'll see what happens with Motul Xcess 5w40 mainly because I can get it cheaper than all others, except Formula F.

 

[FCD]

you will probably not notice a big change in fuel consumption with an A3/B4 Oil

 

[bigjl]

You could try Mobil Super 3000 X1 Formula Fe 5W‑30

The Saps is low enough to not cause issues with a DPF. From memory it's1.0.

I used it in my Pathfinder.

All the current Ford diesel engines where developed to be used with 5w30 A5/B5

I personally wouldn't use a thicker oil.

I assume this is the 2.0 camchain driven engine?

If it is noisy at idle have a look at the aux belt tensioner. Especially if it smooths out when you raise the revs a little.

This engine can also sound pretty bad if you start it without depressing the clutch.

But that is the DMF, always start and stop that engine with the clutch down.

 

[radu]

yes, I looked around a little bit more and found a VOA for that ford 5w30 oil. It's actually pretty good, but very thin, close to w20.

https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=ro&prev=search&rurl=translate.google.ro&sl=ru&u=http://www.oil-club.ru/forum/topic/21298-ford-formula-f-5w-30-svezhee/&usg=ALkJrhh7f31YwQ5m-rF8ZGa-RlAIe0JQlQ

it's from the russian oil forum, I used google translate.
The engine itself is ok, but it has ~450k km, no oil consumption, egr blanked. Timing chain and DMF/clutch were replaced some 80k km ago. The crankshaft pulley instead needs to be replaced.

 

[BrocLuno]

I'm a Motul fan and I think your thinking that Xcess 5W-40 is a good choice is right on. I'd go there in a heart beat

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: radu
yes, I looked around a little bit more and found a VOA for that ford 5w30 oil. It's actually pretty good, but very thin, close to w20.

Almost every North American 30 grade is very thin, close to a 20, unless you have an HDEO 30 or an A3/B4 30. Just about every ILSAC 30 on the shelf has an HTHS of 3.0 +/- 0.1.

 

[Bobby_x]

If the engine runs OK there's No need to change oil specs
Noise comes from inside?
Or maybe just worn engine mounts or sound insulation?
Once I put 5w40 in zetec gas eng speced for 5w30 a1 and while cold it became noisy and thirstier by 0.5-1 liter/100kms

If you have to change rather try 5w30 a3/b4 or c3

 

[UltrafanUK]

Originally Posted By: chrisri
Yes you can use A3/B4 oils in A5/B5 applications. You can't go the other way round. Do not use C3 in this engine, it's an older design, and you aren't DPF equipped.

Shell Helix Ultra 5w40 is best choice for most of the EU, it's cheaper than competitors , yet top tier. Valvoline SynPower and MaxLife 5w40 are also good choices.


Great post and I agree with every word!

 

[UltrafanUK]

A3/B4 is supposed to be a fraction better than A5/B5, so all is well.

One thing I can never understand about which oil type questions, is why almost no one seems to use the oil finder or guide pages of their chosen oil company to see what they recommend. The major brand oil company web sites all have such finders or guides and they are very reliable, as are the limits in an owners manual, which although it is the worlds most popular type of book, it is also the least read.

 

[UltrafanUK]

Originally Posted By: Bobby_x
If the engine runs OK there's No need to change oil specs
Noise comes from inside?
Or maybe just worn engine mounts or sound insulation?
Once I put 5w40 in zetec gas eng speced for 5w30 a1 and while cold it became noisy and thirstier by 0.5-1 liter/100kms

If you have to change rather try 5w30 a3/b4 or c3


Engine noise is very deceptive in terms of wear rates, particularly if you are using an oil that is thicker than required, so if you want to play around using out of spec oils like using a C3 for an engine that lists A3/B4, it's a real good idea to do get a few UOA's done.
Same thing for using a thicker or thinner oils, as you can cause just as much trouble by using a too thick an oil as too thin an oil, as thick oils do not flow around the top end as well. That can result in higher oil temps and increase ring and cam wear.

 

[B320i]

Originally Posted By: UltrafanUK
One thing I can never understand about which oil type questions, is why almost no one seems to use the oil finder or guide pages of their chosen oil company to see what they recommend. The major brand oil company web sites all have such finders or guides and they are very reliable, as are the limits in an owners manual, which although it is the worlds most popular type of book, it is also the least read.



Very reliable? In my experience, not at all.

Using an Owner's Manual is a far more reliable means of finding the correct recommendation.