There you go - depending upon the source and context.
Laboratory Analysis of MMO
- Thread starter MolaKule
- Start date
And it causes corrosion?
Originally Posted By: Shannow
"dry" is typically referencing an apparent lack of lubricity, not the presence or otherwise of water.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
"dry" is typically referencing an apparent lack of lubricity, not the presence or otherwise of water.
It was in response to your apparent disbelief that something that is "dry" causes corrosion...I qualified "dry" with an alternative use of the vernacular...not my version, and I don't use it.
As to corrosion...
alcohols have been known to cause corrosion...
What was you "posit" again ?
You are mixing up Venn diagrammes and grammar/punctuation...
edit...as do things like this
http://www.gcatr.com/images/Ethanol_Article.pdf
As to corrosion...
alcohols have been known to cause corrosion...
What was you "posit" again ?
You are mixing up Venn diagrammes and grammar/punctuation...
edit...as do things like this
http://www.gcatr.com/images/Ethanol_Article.pdf
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Well, that seems to be mostly a marketing piece, which in of itself isn't bad. But beyond that, it points out that old classics are the ones affected - not anything recent. But I get your point, Venn diagrams or not. The bottom line is that concern for corrosion from "dry" gas is unwarranted in anything modern, correct?
The one thing I am still stuck on though is the vague need for "lubricity" in gasoline and how that is apparently missing from a gasoline/ethanol blend. What does lubricity do again and why is it important?
The one thing I am still stuck on though is the vague need for "lubricity" in gasoline and how that is apparently missing from a gasoline/ethanol blend. What does lubricity do again and why is it important?
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Since it has a very low viscosity, I certainly wouldn't leave it in the engine oil as it might thin it down to much, especially if your oil is already a XW20 weight oil.
Phil, a belated thanks for posting this.
If one has an oil pressure gauge to make sure the oil isn't overly diluted I can see a use for this product to thin out some motor oil particularly under cold starting conditions and where maximum oil temp's don't get very high.
After all, this was the practice with kerosine generally prior to WWII. Obviously with the advent of 0W oils today the need to do this is largely redundant.
Since it has a very low viscosity, I certainly wouldn't leave it in the engine oil as it might thin it down to much, especially if your oil is already a XW20 weight oil.
Phil, a belated thanks for posting this.
If one has an oil pressure gauge to make sure the oil isn't overly diluted I can see a use for this product to thin out some motor oil particularly under cold starting conditions and where maximum oil temp's don't get very high.
After all, this was the practice with kerosine generally prior to WWII. Obviously with the advent of 0W oils today the need to do this is largely redundant.
Any idea what the molecular source of phosphorous is? In the absence of other metals, can anything be safely assumed about the source of phosphorus?
Originally Posted By: GMorg
Any idea what the molecular source of phosphorous is? In the absence of other metals, can anything be safely assumed about the source of phosphorus?
I've read many times that it's tricresyl phosphate.
Any idea what the molecular source of phosphorous is? In the absence of other metals, can anything be safely assumed about the source of phosphorus?
I've read many times that it's tricresyl phosphate.
Thanks JAG. I must be getting forgetful. You have had to post this before.
I don't pretend to understand it, but its one product I have had luck with. I like it. Furthermore, I have seen it on more top mechanics shelves and garages than any other product. It works and I have yet to have a engine builder tell me they don't think its Great or the "BOMB". I ll take my personal experience with a product then act like a arm chair scientist and break down the reasons it will not work.
Originally Posted By: Boomer
It is the chlorinated species (ortho-dichloro benzene and isomers) that really made MMO a useful additive in engines when leaded gas was around. It supplemented the dibromoethane used as a lead scavenger in the engine and kept the engines clean.
Lead oxide was formed (a white powder) and the halogen compounds reacted with this oxide to produce lead bromide and chloride which was voltile and went out the tailpipe. In the air , it reacted with water to form hydrochloric/hydrobromic acid and various lead acids and oxides.
Getting the lead out of the gas was a great thing for engine longevity once hardened valve seats came about. That is when it seems smaller oil filters came popular.
It is the chlorinated species (ortho-dichloro benzene and isomers) that really made MMO a useful additive in engines when leaded gas was around. It supplemented the dibromoethane used as a lead scavenger in the engine and kept the engines clean.
Lead oxide was formed (a white powder) and the halogen compounds reacted with this oxide to produce lead bromide and chloride which was voltile and went out the tailpipe. In the air , it reacted with water to form hydrochloric/hydrobromic acid and various lead acids and oxides.
Getting the lead out of the gas was a great thing for engine longevity once hardened valve seats came about. That is when it seems smaller oil filters came popular.
Originally Posted By: Electrajoe
Quiz:
What WORD was misspelled on the old MMO metal can?
I had a metal gallon can of MMO around but they had evidently corrected the spelling... going from memory, was it "newness"?
On another note, I drove a '71 Dodge Dart which was GIVEN to me and it had a 'near-miss' on one cylinder when I first got it (valve issue?). After a few tanks of MMO-fortified fuel, the 'near-miss' disappeared...
Quiz:
What WORD was misspelled on the old MMO metal can?
I had a metal gallon can of MMO around but they had evidently corrected the spelling... going from memory, was it "newness"?
On another note, I drove a '71 Dodge Dart which was GIVEN to me and it had a 'near-miss' on one cylinder when I first got it (valve issue?). After a few tanks of MMO-fortified fuel, the 'near-miss' disappeared...
MolaKule
Staff member
Originally Posted By: JAG
Originally Posted By: GMorg
Any idea what the molecular source of phosphorous is? In the absence of other metals, can anything be safely assumed about the source of phosphorus?
I've read many times that it's tricresyl phosphate.
It's TCP because there is was no appreciable sulfur found.
TCP was originally used as a scavenger in fuel (1900's) before it was found to be an Anti-wear additive in lubricants.
The amount of phos in MMO is used to make up for the reduction of phos when MMO is added to motor oil.
I still don't see any use for it in motor oils, and as a fuel additive, it may have some minor cleaning effects.
Originally Posted By: GMorg
Any idea what the molecular source of phosphorous is? In the absence of other metals, can anything be safely assumed about the source of phosphorus?
I've read many times that it's tricresyl phosphate.
It's TCP because there is was no appreciable sulfur found.
TCP was originally used as a scavenger in fuel (1900's) before it was found to be an Anti-wear additive in lubricants.
The amount of phos in MMO is used to make up for the reduction of phos when MMO is added to motor oil.
I still don't see any use for it in motor oils, and as a fuel additive, it may have some minor cleaning effects.
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couldn't it be usefull to make your own penetratiing oil? can it still be mixed with Acetone?
There certainly is more phosporous present than in ATF.
There certainly is more phosporous present than in ATF.
E10 fuel's deficiency is the corrosion from the alcohol, and the water it loves to absorb.
Originally Posted By: JAG
Originally Posted By: GMorg
Any idea what the molecular source of phosphorous is? In the absence of other metals, can anything be safely assumed about the source of phosphorus?
I've read many times that it's tricresyl phosphate.
I read conflicting reports that it is triphenyl phosphate...
Which would make sense, since it is something that is VERY easy to formulate in the early 20th century (Triphenyl phosphate .... is the ester of phosphoric acid and phenol). Sound like something any kid can make with a home chemistry set.
Originally Posted By: GMorg
Any idea what the molecular source of phosphorous is? In the absence of other metals, can anything be safely assumed about the source of phosphorus?
I've read many times that it's tricresyl phosphate.
I read conflicting reports that it is triphenyl phosphate...
Which would make sense, since it is something that is VERY easy to formulate in the early 20th century (Triphenyl phosphate .... is the ester of phosphoric acid and phenol). Sound like something any kid can make with a home chemistry set.
I used mmo for current oci in my car it holds 3.5 qts with filter so i substituted 16 oz of oil for mmo mo ill effects yet 2,000 miles in. I used delo 5w40 cj4 the same oil as the previous oil change.
I do plan to pull the valve cover as it had a good amount of varnish on the valve train no sludge was present.
I do plan to pull the valve cover as it had a good amount of varnish on the valve train no sludge was present.
MolaKule
Staff member
Originally Posted By: jakewells
I used mmo for current oci in my car it holds 3.5 qts with filter so i substituted 16 oz of oil for mmo mo ill effects yet 2,000 miles in.
What was the resulting viscosity drop of the oil after adding MMO?
Condensing vapors in the crankcase environment are what causes varnish to form, and once formed, are very difficult to remove.
Unless those varnished parts are being bathed in hot oil, it is doubtful that the amount of varnish will tell you anything.
I used mmo for current oci in my car it holds 3.5 qts with filter so i substituted 16 oz of oil for mmo mo ill effects yet 2,000 miles in.
What was the resulting viscosity drop of the oil after adding MMO?
Condensing vapors in the crankcase environment are what causes varnish to form, and once formed, are very difficult to remove.
Unless those varnished parts are being bathed in hot oil, it is doubtful that the amount of varnish will tell you anything.
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Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: jakewells
I used mmo for current oci in my car it holds 3.5 qts with filter so i substituted 16 oz of oil for mmo mo ill effects yet 2,000 miles in.
What was the resulting viscosity drop of the oil after adding MMO?
Condensing vapors in the crankcase environment are what causes varnish to form, and once formed, are very difficult to remove.
Unless those varnished parts are being bathed in hot oil, it is doubtful that the amount of varnish will tell you anything.
not sure of how much viscosity drop... it runs and sounds normal the oil level has stayed the same.
Originally Posted By: jakewells
I used mmo for current oci in my car it holds 3.5 qts with filter so i substituted 16 oz of oil for mmo mo ill effects yet 2,000 miles in.
What was the resulting viscosity drop of the oil after adding MMO?
Condensing vapors in the crankcase environment are what causes varnish to form, and once formed, are very difficult to remove.
Unless those varnished parts are being bathed in hot oil, it is doubtful that the amount of varnish will tell you anything.
not sure of how much viscosity drop... it runs and sounds normal the oil level has stayed the same.
MolaKule
Staff member
Originally Posted By: jakewells
...it runs and sounds normal the oil level has stayed the same.
How is oil pressure holding up?
...it runs and sounds normal the oil level has stayed the same.
How is oil pressure holding up?
