Using ATF to clean out sludged engine?

[Revving2Redline]

If my engine was sludged like my 1995 Toyota Tacoma was I would get some Gumout Multi thats in the seafoam style can and add when cold to crankcase and add remaining to gas tank and fill up after a 100 mi plus journey.Drive for a week, drain oil and filter and use a quality filter for replacement to catch gunk. Change oil and add Lubegard Biotech or Liquimoly Mos2. Run it 1500 mi and change it. Do the same process and change at 2000 mi. If it starts to look better continue and extend oci 500-1000 mi until it starts to show its ugly head. Adding the Gumout multi with PEA cleans your fuel system and protects from ethanol but it also gets into oil and helps keep things clean there too. Lubrizol had a video showing how PEA helps the entire engine. Say no to Seafoam, it does nothing and its MSDS sheet shows and proves it.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
This all started back in the 1940's when the original HydroMatics came out. Back then "ATF" was made with fish oils (OK, Whales are mammals...). They acted just as AutoRX claims to do nowadays with animal fats (Lanolin's) to break down petroleum compounds. The fish oil was pretty potent against some kinds of deposits.

But, around the late 1950's all the natural oils were being replaced with pure petroleum products. They had figured out how to make petroleum oils that allowed the clutches to stick and work well. So away went the natural oils. And away went the cleaning capabilities.

Put a pan of used ATF outside and nothing will happen. Do that in 1954 and neighborhood cats would come sniffing around

Early transmission oils had two things people incorrectly assigned to its cleaning ability.

1. Most engine oils were 40 grade parafinnic mineral oils. Any light oil would thin down a 40 grade for flushing.

2. The base oil was highly naphthenic and naphthenic oils had a slightly higher cleaning ability than did the thick parafinnic oils.


Today's ATFs contain mostly Group II+, GroupIII, and GroupIV base oils with low levels of dispersants and detergents, so they do not make a good flush and only thin out the oil films.

So we need to bury this myth.

 

[gallydif]

Originally Posted By: CharlieBauer
Originally Posted By: Ohle_Manezzini
ATF doesn't need too much detergents, but need a lot of dispersants, to keep the dirt to accumulate at crannies and valves. People often confound detergents with dispersants. ATF have dispersants to lift and spread the particles avoiding accumulation in narrow passages. That is helpfull in the cleaning process of an engine. Dispersants doesn't show up in uoas, since they're succinimides and has no metalic elements like Ca, Na, Bo or Mg on it.


Now that is interesting. I have never seen that explanation before. Thank you!

+1.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: Ohle_Manezzini
ATF doesn't need too much detergents, but need a lot of dispersants, to keep the dirt to accumulate at crannies and valves. People often confound detergents with dispersants. ATF have dispersants to lift and spread the particles avoiding accumulation in narrow passages. That is helpfull in the cleaning process of an engine. Dispersants doesn't show up in uoas, since they're succinimides and has no metalic elements like Ca, Na, Bo or Mg on it.


Does a typical motor oil contain more dispersants than an ATF?

 

[gallydif]

^ from the way it sounds, no it doesn't. ATF likely has more.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: gallydif
^ from the way it sounds, no it doesn't. ATF likely has more.


Where did you see that? MolaKule said it had low levels.

And as an aside, why would it have more? What does it have to disperse in a transmission compared to an engine?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: gallydif
^ from the way it sounds, no it doesn't. ATF likely has more.


Might want to re-read this statement from Molakule:

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Today's ATFs contain mostly Group II+, GroupIII, and GroupIV base oils with low levels of dispersants and detergents, so they do not make a good flush and only thin out the oil films.

So we need to bury this myth.

 

[gallydif]

Thanks for clarifying

 

[Virtus_Probi]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule


Early transmission oils had two things people incorrectly assigned to its cleaning ability.

1. Most engine oils were 40 grade parafinnic mineral oils. Any light oil would thin down a 40 grade for flushing.

2. The base oil was highly naphthenic and naphthenic oils had a slightly higher cleaning ability than did the thick parafinnic oils.


Today's ATFs contain mostly Group II+, GroupIII, and GroupIV base oils with low levels of dispersants and detergents, so they do not make a good flush and only thin out the oil films.

So we need to bury this myth.



MolaKule is BITOG's EF Hutton...
when he talks, people listen.

 

[SuperSalad]

Originally Posted By: kschachn

And as an aside, why would it have more? What does it have to disperse in a transmission compared to an engine?

Oxidation of the oil through heat can create "heavy" components which dispersants help to prevent from settling out and becoming sludge. Despite there not being a lot of contaminants in a trans, sludge can still form from this mechanism if unaddressed. However a little dispersant can go a long way in this regard.

 

[Ohle_Manezzini]

Yes, but ...

Molakule, what aft are you talking about? Dispersant doesn't show in UOAs

And?

The fact that it thins out the sump oil, doesn't help with solubility of the dirt?

Look at Zmax controversy. Even the gov had to put the hat in the sac, because the thin pale oil dissolves the crud in an engine.

 

[gallydif]

Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Originally Posted By: MolaKule


Early transmission oils had two things people incorrectly assigned to its cleaning ability.

1. Most engine oils were 40 grade parafinnic mineral oils. Any light oil would thin down a 40 grade for flushing.

2. The base oil was highly naphthenic and naphthenic oils had a slightly higher cleaning ability than did the thick parafinnic oils.


Today's ATFs contain mostly Group II+, GroupIII, and GroupIV base oils with low levels of dispersants and detergents, so they do not make a good flush and only thin out the oil films.

So we need to bury this myth.



MolaKule is BITOG's EF Hutton...
when he talks, people listen.

Ain't that the truth. The Tony Soprano of bitog

 

[Ohle_Manezzini]

And PEA is only used in fuel system cleaner

 

[Garak]

Are you trying to "out" yourself, as it were?

 

[Ohle_Manezzini]

What, am I at Just one notify away?

 

[Garak]

No, you're just being exceedingly obvious. If I figured it out, anyone can.