BMW 3 series reliability?

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After driving my '02 330ci for 12 years I would describe BMW ownership as requiring a lot of tinkering. My experience includes control arms and bushings twice, cooling system twice, shocks and their bushings, O2 sensors, brakes 3 times, numerous interior trim pieces not to mention the numerous brake fluid , driveline and coolant flushes. When I traded it, it was ready for a fuel pump, clutch, a/c compressor and a CCV system overhaul. It had 162k miles when I let it loose.

If I were in the market for another car similar to my 330ci I'd probably buy a new Mustang - Plant Ford in Humble, Tx has a 5.0 6 speed manual with 3:55 gears for $30k. They have same thing with a 6 speed auto as well for a grand more - it'd probably be the more reliable of the two.

Or the up coming Mazsaspeed 3 when it gets here.
 
Originally Posted By: Jimzz
Not only are there more issues on average they are more costly and some require special tools on top of that.

If you want reliability do not buy a used European car. And only buy new with the intention to sell before the warranty is up.


Sounds like you've never actually owned one, because any dummy on the internet can say yea parts cost a lot and sometimes they require special tools. Do you have any actual experience with them?

I've owned four. All used BMW's and VW's. Just bought my son a Passat with 150k on it because it had been very well maintained, and I have experience with them. They are actually very reliable vehicles and from what I have gathered the only people who say otherwise have never owned one, but repeat things they've heard or just assume. Some parts may be slightly more expensive, but you won't have to replace many. Yes sometimes they require 'special tools' but so does any new vehicle these days, and I've never had to purchase one, despite maintaining all of my vehicles myself.

The list of problems people have posted here are great. Example... 160k but I had to replace the shocks, three sets of tires, two new sets of brakes, a battery, not to mention changing the oil, coolant, brake fluid, transmission fluid. Shew... you all must live charmed lives if that is all you can complain about.
 
Originally Posted By: bvance554
Originally Posted By: Jimzz
Not only are there more issues on average they are more costly and some require special tools on top of that.

If you want reliability do not buy a used European car. And only buy new with the intention to sell before the warranty is up.


Sounds like you've never actually owned one, because any dummy on the internet can say yea parts cost a lot and sometimes they require special tools. Do you have any actual experience with them?

I've owned four. All used BMW's and VW's. Just bought my son a Passat with 150k on it because it had been very well maintained, and I have experience with them. They are actually very reliable vehicles and from what I have gathered the only people who say otherwise have never owned one, but repeat things they've heard or just assume. Some parts may be slightly more expensive, but you won't have to replace many. Yes sometimes they require 'special tools' but so does any new vehicle these days, and I've never had to purchase one, despite maintaining all of my vehicles myself.

The list of problems people have posted here are great. Example... 160k but I had to replace the shocks, three sets of tires, two new sets of brakes, a battery, not to mention changing the oil, coolant, brake fluid, transmission fluid. Shew... you all must live charmed lives if that is all you can complain about.


Parrots are loud.

I can speak towards common problems and weird issues because I worked on them professionally, and still do on the side. All of the BMWs I have personally owned have been flawless, save for the typical gasket issues.

My highest achieved mileage was 390k and that was my '92 V12, which is, if you listen to the Internet, "the most unreliable BMW ever." I sold the car to its happy 3rd owner running and driving like new when I left Germany.
 
A note of caution: OP specifically asked about '07-'11 cars. Those are a bit more difficult to work on than the previous cars, and they have a different set of quirks. So, if you're commenting here based on your experience with cars before that time, what you're saying isn't necessarily applicable.
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
A note of caution: OP specifically asked about '07-'11 cars. Those are a bit more difficult to work on than the previous cars, and they have a different set of quirks. So, if you're commenting here based on your experience with cars before that time, what you're saying isn't necessarily applicable.


If you had read my first reply to the OP, you would see that I discussed specific issues with both of the engines available to the vehicles he is interested in.

I am basing my comments on my experience which covers the E21, F30, and everything in between, both professionally and personally.

Yes, they are "a bit more difficult to work on" than previous generations. The same can be said about all modern cars of ANY make with the exception of Toyota who hasn't designed anything new in a decade or so. Everything costs something. Either spend the time to learn the car or spend the money to have it maintained.

The E9x BMWs are VERY solid cars if you rule out common trouble spots during pre-purchase and apply due diligence to your maintenance.

Edit: it would appear that you were not directly replying to me. I would agree that people mentioning the E46 and earlier BMWs need to quit clouding the thread with their irrelevant comments.
 
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To the OP. Euro cars are very reliable, if you do proactive maintenance! Of all option most reliable is 3.0l engine in 328. I is naturally aspirated engine with good amount of power. 335i is the beast, and reliable but you have to make sure that HPFP was replaced and more importantly VANOS was done during recall.
They require BMW specd. oils that you can get in Wal Mart (Castrol 0W40). It is very easy to change. On N55 (335i) water pump is the biggest issue and I have not seen one making more then 60K with original water pump. Pump is electrical and BMW dealership will charge you upward of $1200 to change.
Most important with these cars (any Euro car) is to have good dependable Indy mechanic for stuff you cannot do yourself.
Do not forget also, the easier you drive these cars the more problems you will have.
 
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Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
Those are awesome cars, and working on them yourself versus paying a shop will save you huge money.

They are fairly easy cars to DIY if you have the right tools, and the tools aren't that expensive on amazon or ebay. For example, an oil change is $150 or so at the dealer. I bought the oil filter socket tool on amazon for $6, and the Castrol 0w40 and filter can be had at Walmart for under $50. My friend has a 2006 325XI. The thing is unstoppable in snow with just all seasons. I imagine it would be better with snow tires.

That platform is known as the "e90" and was made from 2006-2011. The 2009-2011 are slightly updated and are a bit more reliable. Maintenance is key with these. You want to find one with service records. They require a bit more maintenance than a Toyota, but are rewarding to drive. I did a road trip in my friend's '06 and it was a very nice driving car for the 7 hours I drove. The body is also fairly rust proof and the paint seems durable.

The 2009-2011 328 has less moving parts than the 335. The 335 has the same basic 3.0L inline 6 but with twin turbos and direct injection. More power, but also more to go wrong. A common issue is the electric water pump which fails around 70-80k miles. It is usually a good idea to do the thermostat as well since it is right behind it. I bought the entire kit from a site called ECS Tuning which came with the new waterpump, thermostat, new aluminum bolts, and BMW coolant for $375. The job costs $800 or so at a shop. Besides the water pump, a battery, and a few tires the car has been fairly reliable for 102k miles.

Only 335 with N54 engine has two turbos. N55 335i from 2010 has Twin scroll single turbo.
Both 328i and 335i have Direct Injection.
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
Those are awesome cars, and working on them yourself versus paying a shop will save you huge money.

They are fairly easy cars to DIY if you have the right tools, and the tools aren't that expensive on amazon or ebay. For example, an oil change is $150 or so at the dealer. I bought the oil filter socket tool on amazon for $6, and the Castrol 0w40 and filter can be had at Walmart for under $50. My friend has a 2006 325XI. The thing is unstoppable in snow with just all seasons. I imagine it would be better with snow tires.

That platform is known as the "e90" and was made from 2006-2011. The 2009-2011 are slightly updated and are a bit more reliable. Maintenance is key with these. You want to find one with service records. They require a bit more maintenance than a Toyota, but are rewarding to drive. I did a road trip in my friend's '06 and it was a very nice driving car for the 7 hours I drove. The body is also fairly rust proof and the paint seems durable.

The 2009-2011 328 has less moving parts than the 335. The 335 has the same basic 3.0L inline 6 but with twin turbos and direct injection. More power, but also more to go wrong. A common issue is the electric water pump which fails around 70-80k miles. It is usually a good idea to do the thermostat as well since it is right behind it. I bought the entire kit from a site called ECS Tuning which came with the new waterpump, thermostat, new aluminum bolts, and BMW coolant for $375. The job costs $800 or so at a shop. Besides the water pump, a battery, and a few tires the car has been fairly reliable for 102k miles.

Only 335 with N54 engine has two turbos. N55 335i from 2010 has Twin scroll single turbo.
Both 328i and 335i have Direct Injection.


Incorrect. The N52 is is port injected.
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Do not forget also, the easier you drive these cars the more problems you will have.

[off-topic]
BITOG (car enthusiast) quote of the week!

Thank you for advertising "DO NOT SLEEP IN TRAFFIC!"
[/off-topic]
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
To the OP. Euro cars are very reliable, if you do proactive maintenance! Of all option most reliable is 3.0l engine in 328. I is naturally aspirated engine with good amount of power. 335i is the beast, and reliable but you have to make sure that HPFP was replaced and more importantly VANOS was done during recall.
They require BMW specd. oils that you can get in Wal Mart (Castrol 0W40). It is very easy to change. On N55 (335i) water pump is the biggest issue and I have not seen one making more then 60K with original water pump. Pump is electrical and BMW dealership will charge you upward of $1200 to change.
Most important with these cars (any Euro car) is to have good dependable Indy mechanic for stuff you cannot do yourself.
Do not forget also, the easier you drive these cars the more problems you will have.


I looked at some of these cars today. Take this with some salt...

Spoke to a salesman on a big used car lot who was an ex dealer mechanic and he said as much as I want to sell pick anything but BMW. He said they handle great, nice power but he said Lexus has great RWD/AWD cars, as reliable or even more than your Ford. Told me the Lexus LS/GS series and Town car were the most reliable cars made in the 2000s. And you don't need to goto the dealer for a battery either.

First of all, some of the BMWs don't even have a temperature gauge. He said if there is any cooling system issue you will see a red light and the engine will be gone in a few seconds. He said your Marquis has bars on the display, and a failsafe that shuts down cylinders, and those cars take original waterpumps and tstats to the boneyard. He said if buy a BMW change the thermostat and waterpump as soon as you get it home. Reminds me of the 85 box crown vic I had, no gauge. I told him that and he said that car could survive an overheat for a short period of time, not the BMW motor will be scrap metal.

He said there were customers who came back fuming with issues that cost more than what they paid for the car. He said I don't care if you are the best mechanic if you need an engine or transmission be ready to pay what the car cost used (the ones I looked at were in the 10K range). He said the only way he would buy a BMW is with a full warranty, maybe a CPO deal. He said if you feel lucky it is a great car, but if there are any problems it will be your worst nightmare.

He also said their V8s burn oil worse than the early Ford SOHCs, for the same reason. No excuse for that anymore.

Then he looked at the 98 grand marquis I came with and said there is nothing more reliable than that. He said we have some newer panthers you may want to trade up to.
 
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Originally Posted By: bvance554
Originally Posted By: Jimzz
Not only are there more issues on average they are more costly and some require special tools on top of that.

If you want reliability do not buy a used European car. And only buy new with the intention to sell before the warranty is up.


Sounds like you've never actually owned one, because any dummy on the internet can say yea parts cost a lot and sometimes they require special tools. Do you have any actual experience with them?

I've owned four. All used BMW's and VW's. Just bought my son a Passat with 150k on it because it had been very well maintained, and I have experience with them. They are actually very reliable vehicles and from what I have gathered the only people who say otherwise have never owned one, but repeat things they've heard or just assume. Some parts may be slightly more expensive, but you won't have to replace many. Yes sometimes they require 'special tools' but so does any new vehicle these days, and I've never had to purchase one, despite maintaining all of my vehicles myself.

The list of problems people have posted here are great. Example... 160k but I had to replace the shocks, three sets of tires, two new sets of brakes, a battery, not to mention changing the oil, coolant, brake fluid, transmission fluid. Shew... you all must live charmed lives if that is all you can complain about.


I use to be a ASE tech and even ran my own shop. I have even owned some European cars and worked on many hundreds of them. So yes I know what I am talking about. Compared to a most Asian or American cars European vehicles need repairs more on average and parts do cost more.
 
When considering any high end (premium)car, one has to expect to "pay to play".
This is regardless of who made it. Either you pay with your check book
or your time.

Choose wisely
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
A note of caution: OP specifically asked about '07-'11 cars. Those are a bit more difficult to work on than the previous cars, and they have a different set of quirks. So, if you're commenting here based on your experience with cars before that time, what you're saying isn't necessarily applicable.


He also seems to be commenting on his experience in Germany. Here in Taiwan, a high-stress environment for German cars, they die young.

Of course the US isn't Taiwan, but it isn't Germany either.
 
You wanna drive a generic car like a Ford Panther or a Camry? You sure can.
You want something at least a little entertaining to drive?
There are BMWs as well as other cars.
They may not offer the invulnerability to neglect that Ford's pretend police interceptor and best taxi does (too slow to catch a decent running four cylinder Accord and I write this having driven a number of examples of both) or the just keep fuel in it reliability of grandma's Camry, but you at least get a lot more driving entertainment in the bargain and BMWs are neither expensive nor difficult to maintain in reliable condition for the savvy owner.
 
Originally Posted By: ford46guy
Originally Posted By: edyvw
To the OP. Euro cars are very reliable, if you do proactive maintenance! Of all option most reliable is 3.0l engine in 328. I is naturally aspirated engine with good amount of power. 335i is the beast, and reliable but you have to make sure that HPFP was replaced and more importantly VANOS was done during recall.
They require BMW specd. oils that you can get in Wal Mart (Castrol 0W40). It is very easy to change. On N55 (335i) water pump is the biggest issue and I have not seen one making more then 60K with original water pump. Pump is electrical and BMW dealership will charge you upward of $1200 to change.
Most important with these cars (any Euro car) is to have good dependable Indy mechanic for stuff you cannot do yourself.
Do not forget also, the easier you drive these cars the more problems you will have.


I looked at some of these cars today. Take this with some salt...

Spoke to a salesman on a big used car lot who was an ex dealer mechanic and he said as much as I want to sell pick anything but BMW. He said they handle great, nice power but he said Lexus has great RWD/AWD cars, as reliable or even more than your Ford. Told me the Lexus LS/GS series and Town car were the most reliable cars made in the 2000s. And you don't need to goto the dealer for a battery either.

First of all, some of the BMWs don't even have a temperature gauge. He said if there is any cooling system issue you will see a red light and the engine will be gone in a few seconds. He said your Marquis has bars on the display, and a failsafe that shuts down cylinders, and those cars take original waterpumps and tstats to the boneyard. He said if buy a BMW change the thermostat and waterpump as soon as you get it home. Reminds me of the 85 box crown vic I had, no gauge. I told him that and he said that car could survive an overheat for a short period of time, not the BMW motor will be scrap metal.

He said there were customers who came back fuming with issues that cost more than what they paid for the car. He said I don't care if you are the best mechanic if you need an engine or transmission be ready to pay what the car cost used (the ones I looked at were in the 10K range). He said the only way he would buy a BMW is with a full warranty, maybe a CPO deal. He said if you feel lucky it is a great car, but if there are any problems it will be your worst nightmare.

He also said their V8s burn oil worse than the early Ford SOHCs, for the same reason. No excuse for that anymore.

Then he looked at the 98 grand marquis I came with and said there is nothing more reliable than that. He said we have some newer panthers you may want to trade up to.


He said, he said, he said... A whole lot of bullsh!t!

You don't need to go to the dealer for an E9x battery.

You DO have a temperature warning for water and oil. Yellow indicates there is a problem and you should pull over, red puts the car in low power mode and indicates an emergency. There is a warning for your thermostat, a warning for your water pump, a warning for your oil level and pressure, etc. It's a lot more reliable than the "idiot gauges" most cars have... They indicated mid way even if there is a thermostat problem.

Even IF you overheat the N52... It doesn't put it out of commission instantly like the old M54. And the ZF 6speed is a rock solid transmission. If you need to replace it, it is because you abused it, period.
 
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Originally Posted By: rooflessVW

He said, he said, he said... A whole lot of bullsh!t!

You don't need to go to the dealer for an E9x battery.

You DO have a temperature warning for water and oil. Yellow indicates there is a problem and you should pull over, red puts the car in low power mode and indicates an emergency. There is a warning for your thermostat, a warning for your water pump, a warning for your oil level and pressure, etc. It's a lot more reliable than the "idiot gauges" most cars have... They indicated mid way even if there is a thermostat problem.

Even IF you overheat the N52... It doesn't put it out of commission instantly like the old M54. And the ZF 6speed is a rock solid transmission. If you need to replace it, it is because you abused it, period.


Exactly; lots of people who parrot fifth-party hearsay and who have ZERO actual experience. Some have never sat in a BMW-never mind owned or driven one-and many have difficulty just spelling "BMW" without assistance.
 
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW

Yes, they are "a bit more difficult to work on" than previous generations. The same can be said about all modern cars of ANY make with the exception of Toyota who hasn't designed anything new in a decade or so.


I don't know if this is true, (since I don't have much interest in, or knowledge of, new cars) but if it's even partly true, and you're considering buying a new car, that's a BIG, BIG reason to buy a new Toyota.
 
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Originally Posted By: Ducked
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW

Yes, they are "a bit more difficult to work on" than previous generations. The same can be said about all modern cars of ANY make with the exception of Toyota who hasn't designed anything new in a decade or so.


I don't know if this is true, (since I don't have much interest in, or knowledge of, new cars) but if it's even partly true, and you're considering buying a new car, that's a BIG, BIG reason to buy a new Toyota.


Really? I think of it as a BIG, BIG reason not to buy a new Toyota.
 
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Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW

Yes, they are "a bit more difficult to work on" than previous generations. The same can be said about all modern cars of ANY make with the exception of Toyota who hasn't designed anything new in a decade or so.


I don't know if this is true, (since I don't have much interest in, or knowledge of, new cars) but if it's even partly true, and you're considering buying a new car, that's a BIG, BIG reason to buy a new Toyota.


Really? I think of it as a BIG, BIG reason not to buy a new Toyota.


Yeh. That's what I thought.

QED
 
Originally Posted By: Ducked

Yeh. That's what I thought.

QED


Originally Posted By: MCompact
many have difficulty just spelling "BMW" without assistance.


Oops.
 
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