Detergents

[JDMiller]

What are the 'chemicals' additives to look at that act as the "detergents" in oil, as seen on product data sheets and oil tests

For example: anti wear chemicals are zinc/phosphorus

Maybe the detergent additives are not even listed

I want to compare amounts of detergent in "heavy duty" and diesel oils compared to regular Gas car/truck oils

 

[SZR48207]

Calcium I believe is one of the big ones.

 

[Ohle_Manezzini]

Ca Mg Na

 

[WobblyElvis]

Blackstone labs has an explanation of the different additives here.

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/report-explanation.php

 

[MolaKule]

Quote:
It would be considered a detergent but not part of the conventional calcium sulfonate or calcium salicylate detergent package.

I would consider the ethylene glycol as a "secondary" detergent with the calcium detergent package as primary.



Secondary Detergent not detectable

 

[JDMiller]

Originally Posted By: Ohle_Manezzini
Ca Mg Na

What is NA? sodium

I see boron is a detergent too

 

[JDMiller]

Im also comparing the additives in all the HDEOs

http://www.pqiamerica.com/June 2014/consolidated HDEO 2015.html
Valvoline wasnt in the above,,so below
http://pqiadata.org/ValvolineBlue15W40.html

I use Delo LE 15-40 in my older Dodge Cummins


Interesting comparison between Delo and Rotella T

Delo 15w-40

calcium/ magnezium/boron = 1521/384/557

Rotella T 15w-40

Ca/Mg/boron = 2265/10/42

I wonder if Rotella would be considered having Higher detergent for its higher Calcium, or if the higher Mg/boron of Delo equals the detergent levels out for Delo

 

[Ohle_Manezzini]

Originally Posted By: JDMiller
Originally Posted By: Ohle_Manezzini
Ca Mg Na

What is NA? sodium

I see boron is a detergent too





B is a multirole. Then you should have added others like too, since a surfactant detach other elements and are antioxidant. I think The question was about detergency exclusively.

 

[JDMiller]

From Blackstone laboratories website

Quote:
Boron: Detergent/dispersant additive, antifreeze inhibitor

 

[Garak]

Here is a useful post.

 

[gallydif]

Calcium and sodium are detergents. Magnesium is a dispersant. Boron is an AW. 'Kule and I were just talking on this subject.

 

[DWC28]

Looking at the atomic count in oil analysis will not tell you everything you need to know about detergents. In addition to neutral and over based, there are phenates, sulfonates carbonates and salicylates of each of the big three. The molecule has more to do than the atom. Most oil analysis gives you the atomic levels but not the molecules. Just like MolaKule is so important here.

 

[DWC28]

Originally Posted By: gallydif
Calcium and sodium are detergents. Magnesium is a dispersant. Boron is an AW. 'Kule and I were just talking on this subject.

Infineum is going to be really surprised to realize that magnesium is not used in detergent. They believe they have been doing so for 50 years. Also as I stated the atoms of each are not detergents. Yeah, I know nit-picking.

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: JDMiller
Im also comparing the additives in all the HDEOs

http://www.pqiamerica.com/June 2014/consolidated HDEO 2015.html
Valvoline wasnt in the above,,so below
http://pqiadata.org/ValvolineBlue15W40.html

I use Delo LE 15-40 in my older Dodge Cummins


Interesting comparison between Delo and Rotella T

Delo 15w-40

calcium/ magnezium/boron = 1521/384/557

Rotella T 15w-40

Ca/Mg/boron = 2265/10/42

I wonder if Rotella would be considered having Higher detergent for its higher Calcium, or if the higher Mg/boron of Delo equals the detergent levels out for Delo



Mg is twice as effective as Ca, so the effective neutralizing ability of the Delo listed above would be 1521 + 2*384 = 2289. This would be comparable to the Rotella. Mg detergents are known for resisting TBN depletion better than Ca detergents, but are not as good as neutralizing some weak acids. An oil that has both Mg and Ca will give long-lasting broad-based protection against acids.

 

[JDMiller]

Originally Posted By: A_Harman


Mg is twice as effective as Ca, so the effective neutralizing ability of the Delo listed above would be 1521 + 2*384 = 2289. This would be comparable to the Rotella. Mg detergents are known for resisting TBN depletion better than Ca detergents, but are not as good as neutralizing some weak acids. An oil that has both Mg and Ca will give long-lasting broad-based protection against acids.


Cool ,,, Thanks A_Hardman Good imfo ! That answers my question

So boron is realy a anti wear additive( I thought it was also). I dont know why Blackstone says its a detergent dispersant

 

[gallydif]

Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: JDMiller
Im also comparing the additives in all the HDEOs

http://www.pqiamerica.com/June 2014/consolidated HDEO 2015.html
Valvoline wasnt in the above,,so below
http://pqiadata.org/ValvolineBlue15W40.html

I use Delo LE 15-40 in my older Dodge Cummins


Interesting comparison between Delo and Rotella T

Delo 15w-40

calcium/ magnezium/boron = 1521/384/557

Rotella T 15w-40

Ca/Mg/boron = 2265/10/42

I wonder if Rotella would be considered having Higher detergent for its higher Calcium, or if the higher Mg/boron of Delo equals the detergent levels out for Delo



Mg is twice as effective as Ca, so the effective neutralizing ability of the Delo listed above would be 1521 + 2*384 = 2289. This would be comparable to the Rotella. Mg detergents are known for resisting TBN depletion better than Ca detergents, but are not as good as neutralizing some weak acids. An oil that has both Mg and Ca will give long-lasting broad-based protection against acids.

How does sodium compare to calcium effeciency wise?