H&K VP9?

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Originally Posted By: Astro14
In fact, when I bought my first MSR, it was a DPMS in 7.62. A more versatile rifle. Still light weight, easy handling and high capacity, but with a bit more recoil and a LOT more round effectiveness...

This one: http://www.dpmsinc.com/AP4-308762_ep_129-1.html

The direct impingement design works fine if you keep it lubricated. A bit of a pain, but the tradeoff for simplicity and light weight.


Even when run dry and dirty, it can be made to soldier on far beyond what most forumgoers imagine.
 
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Astro14
In fact, when I bought my first MSR, it was a DPMS in 7.62. A more versatile rifle. Still light weight, easy handling and high capacity, but with a bit more recoil and a LOT more round effectiveness...

This one: http://www.dpmsinc.com/AP4-308762_ep_129-1.html

The direct impingement design works fine if you keep it lubricated. A bit of a pain, but the tradeoff for simplicity and light weight.


I agree. My DPMS AP-4 Carbine is my favorite AR platform rifle. The .308 puts the little .22 to shame.




Nice!

What stock do you have on that rifle? I've got the factory stock, with a limbsaver pad, which makes for a very pleasant shooting rifle...but the one you've got looks more sturdy, and has the better comb for a good cheek weld...
 
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Nice! What stock do you have on that rifle? I've got the factory stock, with a limbsaver pad, which makes for a very pleasant shooting rifle...but the one you've got looks more sturdy, and has the better comb for a good cheek weld...


That's a Vltor E-Mod Stock. They come in both Mil-Spec, as well as Commercial buffer tube sizes. I have them on most all of my AR platform guns. I like them because I've got long arms, and they give me almost a full inch longer length of pull when fully extended. They also have a nice steel reinforced butt plate covered with a nice thick rubber butt pad. They give a really nice cheek weld as well.
 
Even the guy who helped design the thing, thinks the AK is a better platform. I can't argue with him. And he's hardly a, "forum goer".

http://www.chuckhawks.com/ar_disgrace.htm

"The lead designer of the M-16, Jim Sullivan, has stated that the current, 3rd generation (Russian) AK-74 is far superior to what we give our troops to work with, and that if his own son was fighting in the sand he would much rather have him use an AK-74 than the problematic M4."
 
I'm a firearms instructor and have extensive experience with the VP9 and all HK handguns. Skip it and get somethings else as they just are not a reliable platform. The cocking ears on the slide also break off quiet easily when using them to charge the weapon. The Glock, XD, and M&P amung other are superior in every way.
 
Originally Posted By: billt460
Even the guy who helped design the thing, thinks the AK is a better platform. I can't argue with him. And he's hardly a, "forum goer".

http://www.chuckhawks.com/ar_disgrace.htm

"The lead designer of the M-16, Jim Sullivan, has stated that the current, 3rd generation (Russian) AK-74 is far superior to what we give our troops to work with, and that if his own son was fighting in the sand he would much rather have him use an AK-74 than the problematic M4."


The M16 / M4 are fully serviceable service rifles. Yes there are marginally better piston operated service rifles on the market. And they are hugely more expensive than the M4. A well maintained and lubricated M4 will work just fine.

All the other NATO armies of the world can fully outfit all their troops with the latest Blaster 4000 rifles, due to how small they are compared to the US army. The US Army could update its rifles, but the cost/benefit analysis has already been done (a thousand times) and they have come to the conclusion that the replacing the AR is just not practical. It works, it has a low failure rate, and folks are trained on it.

If some guy wants to compare the AK74 to the M4 and say the AK74 is better, well he is entitled to his opinion... but, my opinion is that the M4 is a better rifle for properly trained armies. Peasant armies/child soldiers? Sure, they would probably do better with an AK74.
 
Originally Posted By: Chris B.
I'm a firearms instructor and have extensive experience with the VP9 and all HK handguns. Skip it and get somethings else as they just are not a reliable platform. The cocking ears on the slide also break off quiet easily when using them to charge the weapon. The Glock, XD, and M&P amung other are superior in every way.


So, all Glocks, XD, and M&P are superior in every way to EVERY H&K?

Sorry, that's simply not true. I don't know the VP9, and perhaps what you claim is true for that pistol, but ALL H&K?

Seriously?
 
Originally Posted By: billt460
I bought this H&K USP 9 some years back. Just to see what all the H&K hoopla was about. I wouldn't buy another. For one, the gun was overpriced for what it is. A Polymer service pistol. The gun won't do anything a Glock will, except cost more doing it. The trigger is OK. The magazine release pinches your fingers where it's located. Magazines are somewhat hard to find. And overpriced as well when you do find them. They are not metal lined like a Glock mag is. The high capacity mag they sell for this gun runs around $120.00, or some such nonsense. Compared to the metal lined $39.00 Glock 33 round mags, you can buy all day long for that price. In short, I like the gun enough not to sell it. But I sure won't stand in line to buy another. And as another poster pointed out, they do poorly in torture tests. Especially compared to Glock's.
Bill - thanks for sharing the information. A couple points to clarify on the VP9 versus the USP; 1. the magazine release on the VP9 is a paddle style much like the one on my Walther so it would be difficult if not impossible to pinch your finger, though I can easily see how it is possible on the USP in your picture. 2. The magazines are in the high $30 to low $40 range (15 round magazines) as opposed to the USP. There is one negative (at least for me) and that is I do not like the lack of a decocker on the VP9. Of course, it is not a requirement and yes, absolutely I practice gun safety, but it would a definitely be a "nice to have". I am still sold on my Walther, but I like to "check out the competition" from time to time.
 
Originally Posted By: Astro14
And folks don't care for the H&K magazine release, but I've never seen any H&K magazine come loose during firing because the shooter had a tight grip and inadvertently squeezed the magazine release button. However, I have seen this happen to 1911s, M&Ps and even Glocks. With a few thousand practice reloads on my H&K, I can hit that button with the middle finger of my strong hand, drop the mag and reload in under a second.
My Walther has a paddle style magazne release and while many folks do not like it, I find it incredibly simple to manipulate and now prefer it. I do the same; I use the middle finger of my dominant hand to release the magazine while using my offhand to insert a new magazine.
 
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
If some guy wants to compare the AK74 to the M4 and say the AK74 is better, well he is entitled to his opinion...


He's not just "some guy". He was one of the lead designers of the M-16. It's the equivalent of having Lee Iacocca tell you to buy a GTO instead of a Mustang.
 
Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
Bill - thanks for sharing the information. A couple points to clarify on the VP9 versus the USP; 1. the magazine release on the VP9 is a paddle style much like the one on my Walther so it would be difficult if not impossible to pinch your finger, though I can easily see how it is possible on the USP in your picture. 2. The magazines are in the high $30 to low $40 range (15 round magazines) as opposed to the USP. There is one negative (at least for me) and that is I do not like the lack of a decocker on the VP9. Of course, it is not a requirement and yes, absolutely I practice gun safety, but it would a definitely be a "nice to have". I am still sold on my Walther, but I like to "check out the competition" from time to time.


It sounds like you've researched the gun pretty well. If you like it, and can afford it, I would go ahead and buy it. That's what I did. As I said, I like the gun enough not to sell it. But I'm not that impressed with it. You may be with the VP-9. We're civilians, so I doubt that either of us will run our guns enough to really matter. I've learned to be critical of the guns I've purchased through the years, and look at them realistically. I'm not what you would call an "ownership fanboy". There are guns I own and love. Some I'm rather indifferent about. And others I just don't care for. I have 1 H&K, and 6 Glocks. So that pretty well sums up my opinion on both guns.
 
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
Bill - thanks for sharing the information. A couple points to clarify on the VP9 versus the USP; 1. the magazine release on the VP9 is a paddle style much like the one on my Walther so it would be difficult if not impossible to pinch your finger, though I can easily see how it is possible on the USP in your picture. 2. The magazines are in the high $30 to low $40 range (15 round magazines) as opposed to the USP. There is one negative (at least for me) and that is I do not like the lack of a decocker on the VP9. Of course, it is not a requirement and yes, absolutely I practice gun safety, but it would a definitely be a "nice to have". I am still sold on my Walther, but I like to "check out the competition" from time to time.
It sounds like you've researched the gun pretty well. If you like it, and can afford it, I would go ahead and buy it. That's what I did. As I said, I like the gun enough not to sell it. But I'm not that impressed with it. You may be with the VP-9. We're civilians, so I doubt that either of us will run our guns enough to really matter. I've learned to be critical of the guns I've purchased through the years, and look at them realistically. I'm not what you would call an "ownership fanboy". There are guns I own and love. Some I'm rather indifferent about. And others I just don't care for. I have 1 H&K, and 6 Glocks. So that pretty well sums up my opinion on both guns.
The jury is still out on the VP9, I want to rent and shoot it before investing in one. I feel the same as you--there are firearms I like and others I cannot stand. I have many SIGs and Walthers with a few FNs sprinkled in between in my arsenal. I am not a fan of Glocks, but that does not mean they are not great weapons. I recently wrote a line or two about them in my forthcoming second novel, where the "security character" said to the two main characters who were taking firearms training and choosing their ECD weapons:

Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
“Glocks are like tanks, they can be ran over, stomped on, kicked, punched, and dropped and will just keep firing. The problem I have with them is the trigger safety--I don't care for the feel of it. But, also, in the case of this model 26, the grip is too short for anyone with large hands to comfortably use, which describes all of us perfectly.”
 
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: Chris B.
I'm a firearms instructor and have extensive experience with the VP9 and all HK handguns. Skip it and get somethings else as they just are not a reliable platform. The cocking ears on the slide also break off quiet easily when using them to charge the weapon. The Glock, XD, and M&P amung other are superior in every way.


So, all Glocks, XD, and M&P are superior in every way to EVERY H&K?

Sorry, that's simply not true. I don't know the VP9, and perhaps what you claim is true for that pistol, but ALL H&K?

Seriously?


I look at it from an efficiency stand point. I think if you carry for defense of yourself and loved ones you should pick the best tool that gives you the best chance of survival. That means a double stack 9mm striker fired pistol with a proven record of reliability in all conditions. In a dynamic critical situation, you are under an immense amount of stress. Guns with manual safeties, long double action triggers(Yes VP9 is striker) can get you killed. Glocks, M&P and XD are pistols that are extremely easy to fire with no switches to flip or long heavy triggers. The LEM trigger was a joke and HK DA triggers are not great. The same can be said about the other guns triggers but they are all much faster to fire and reset then the HK triggers. I've seen tons of HK's in my classes over the years and most never fail but they do fail at a higher rate then the Glocks, XD or M&P.
I was an HK and SIG guy for years till I started to train with some of the best instructors in the country(Clint Smith, Rob Pincus, John Brown, Kyle Defoor and Travis Haley to name a few)over the past 15 years and I changed my mind on what the best defensive guns were.
Just my opinion based on real world observations. Most top instructors agree with me...or should I say I agree with them, they changed my mind.

My favorite HK pistol I ever owned was my SP89. Lots of fun but not to practical without its stock! HK does make some fine high quality firearms. Some versions of the M&P suck so I shouldn't say they are all superior to the HK. I'd take the HK first vs. some of the other versions.

 
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What do you mean when you say LEM tiggers are a joke? That's an interesting opinion. While they might not be my first choice for a bullseye-only target pistol, they seem an excellent choice for a defensive/combat pistol.

I have a couple of light LEM p30's and I can shoot them a fast and as accurately as I can a standard Glock. l have 6,180 rounds through one of the pistols with exactly zero malfunctions. The thing just runs whether I clean it or not, and it happily eats every type of ammo I've fed it. The gun is 100% reliable and I have no issues with the trigger or LEM action at all. Of course I've shot DAO wheel guns a lot, so I can shoot heavier and longer travel triggers pretty well.

Is your opinion based on speed/accuracy, reliability or what? If speed, how many tenths of a second are you losing on splits with a LEM? If not speed, then what?
 
The VP9 is a sweet gun. My buddy owns and carries a VP40. It's a great shooter. Built like a tank, and it shoots soft for a .40. It reminds me of my old Walther PPQ .40

The 9 should be even softer shooting.
 
For some reason my VP9 hurts my trigger finger after a couple of shots . I can't figure out what is happening to cause it . It's for sale or trade at this point .
 
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