Nevermind. That was the wrong one.
Those from the Canadian place look like the best deal, or that guy who can repair for $160.
Those from the Canadian place look like the best deal, or that guy who can repair for $160.
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Need New Exhausr Flex Pipe
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Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
Originally Posted By: artbuc
I called one indie and they want to replace the whole pipe.
Call a few more. I paid ~#120 5-7 years ago and I don't think Philadelphia prices are much different from Baltimore prices.
I would say $160 today is consistent with $120 5-7 years ago. Starting to spilt hairs. Did you get an all stainless flex pipe? More important than a few bucks is the quality of work which, unfortunately, I can not judge in advance. If he installs an all stainless pipe and does a nice job, $160 is a fair price.
Originally Posted By: artbuc
I called one indie and they want to replace the whole pipe.
Call a few more. I paid ~#120 5-7 years ago and I don't think Philadelphia prices are much different from Baltimore prices.
I would say $160 today is consistent with $120 5-7 years ago. Starting to spilt hairs. Did you get an all stainless flex pipe? More important than a few bucks is the quality of work which, unfortunately, I can not judge in advance. If he installs an all stainless pipe and does a nice job, $160 is a fair price.
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Nevermind. That was the wrong one.
Those from the Canadian place look like the best deal, or that guy who can repair for $160.
Problem with aftermarket Federal emissions is marginal catalyst loads which frequently (according to reports) fails in 2-4 years.
Nevermind. That was the wrong one.
Those from the Canadian place look like the best deal, or that guy who can repair for $160.
Problem with aftermarket Federal emissions is marginal catalyst loads which frequently (according to reports) fails in 2-4 years.
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Can't you clamp it on?
No way. Flex pipe is welded into a plenum. When you cut it out there is nothing to clamp on to.
Can't you clamp it on?
No way. Flex pipe is welded into a plenum. When you cut it out there is nothing to clamp on to.
Originally Posted By: artbuc
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Can't you clamp it on?
No way. Flex pipe is welded into a plenum. When you cut it out there is nothing to clamp on to.
Use an insert?
I've done that a few times to fix fractured exhausts on pre-cat cars, but those are of course different, and older, animals. Maybe there's nothing to locate an insert inside the plenum.
(I've even used stainless, but only because there was a slightly specialist scrapyard near where I lived. I suppose it reduced the cross-sectional area, but I managed not to worry about that.)
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Can't you clamp it on?
No way. Flex pipe is welded into a plenum. When you cut it out there is nothing to clamp on to.
Use an insert?
I've done that a few times to fix fractured exhausts on pre-cat cars, but those are of course different, and older, animals. Maybe there's nothing to locate an insert inside the plenum.
(I've even used stainless, but only because there was a slightly specialist scrapyard near where I lived. I suppose it reduced the cross-sectional area, but I managed not to worry about that.)
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Now I remember why I hate taking my car to a shop. The guy replaced the flex joint but used a super cheap AP instead of the higher quality stainless steel Magnaflow. As it turns out he was lying his a$$ off because I called Magnaflow and they do not sell individual flex pipes. When confronted he admitted that it could have been AP. More concerning is the fact he used a unit with nipples so the flex length is now about half of the original. I hope this does not over stress the manifold piping. He also did a major hack move by cutting off a support bracket and not replacing it. His response was it is not needed...don't know why Toyota even has it there. I feel so sorry for the poor saps who have to depend on shops for all of their maintenance.
I use the ones from Vibrant they are SS, this guy sound like a total hack.
http://vibrantperformance.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=1022_1064
http://vibrantperformance.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=1022_1064
Originally Posted By: Trav
I use the ones from Vibrant they are SS, this guy sound like a total hack.
http://vibrantperformance.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=1022_1064
Thanks Trav, that is what I expected to get. Even though my car is 17 years old, everything I have done to it has been high quality, mostly with OEM parts, restoring it to original conditions. The thought of this hack job makes me sick but I have to put emotions aside. Main questions are will this short AP flex pipe allow enough movement and do I need the factory support?
As far as I can determine he used AP 8835. AP has has a unit with inner braid (AP 8835IB) but i have no way of knowing which one he used but I assume it would be the cheaper one.
I do not mind spending the bucks to install a Vibrant if it is necessary to give system enough flex.
http://www.apexhaust.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Flex_Solutions_Guide_AP90202.pdf
I use the ones from Vibrant they are SS, this guy sound like a total hack.
http://vibrantperformance.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=1022_1064
Thanks Trav, that is what I expected to get. Even though my car is 17 years old, everything I have done to it has been high quality, mostly with OEM parts, restoring it to original conditions. The thought of this hack job makes me sick but I have to put emotions aside. Main questions are will this short AP flex pipe allow enough movement and do I need the factory support?
As far as I can determine he used AP 8835. AP has has a unit with inner braid (AP 8835IB) but i have no way of knowing which one he used but I assume it would be the cheaper one.
I do not mind spending the bucks to install a Vibrant if it is necessary to give system enough flex.
http://www.apexhaust.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Flex_Solutions_Guide_AP90202.pdf
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I know exactly what you mean about keeping an older car, you spend a lot of time and money keeping them up and them some yokel pulls something like this.
How long was the original flex, did it have a liner or interlocking tube or bellows inside? Where did this hanger go, I cant believe he told you it doesn't need it anyway, I would bet they didn't throw an extra one just for laughs.
If it is quiet and seems to be working okay go with it till it doesn't but do something about the hanger. Did he at least give it to you so it can be welded back on or at least use it as a template to fab one?
Is this yours?
How long was the original flex, did it have a liner or interlocking tube or bellows inside? Where did this hanger go, I cant believe he told you it doesn't need it anyway, I would bet they didn't throw an extra one just for laughs.
If it is quiet and seems to be working okay go with it till it doesn't but do something about the hanger. Did he at least give it to you so it can be welded back on or at least use it as a template to fab one?
Is this yours?
Here is mine, it is California Spec so I have a pre-cat in the pipe connecting to Bank 1 exh manifold. Click on "view".
http://utoyot8.com/PictureList.aspx?mode...p;pid=240683006
The support he removed and discarded is located where the pre-cat and flex pipe are close and parallel. He may be right about it being redundant. The parts diagram does not even show it. Also the parts diagram is not accurate. I have beefy supports where the exh manifold flanges bolt to the cat converter piping. Diagram accurately shows support at location 2 (in circle) between flew pipe and cat. The support he removed may be there in case #2 fails. In any event, the two beefy supporters at the exh manifold flanges effectively keep forces off the exh manifolds.
I got a quick look at the original flex pipe. Looked like a 3 layer design with a pipe in a pipe with braided liner. It was about 8" long. The AP part is also 8" long with nipples but the flex portion is only 4" long. I will call AP to see what they recommend.
Car runs fine. No noise and downstream O2 sensor behaving normally. I will get wife to operate engine and shift gears later today while I observe the flex pipe.
The Vibrant unit looks super deluxe but how do you weld to the one with inner braid? Does not look like there is anything there to weld to.
http://utoyot8.com/PictureList.aspx?mode...p;pid=240683006
The support he removed and discarded is located where the pre-cat and flex pipe are close and parallel. He may be right about it being redundant. The parts diagram does not even show it. Also the parts diagram is not accurate. I have beefy supports where the exh manifold flanges bolt to the cat converter piping. Diagram accurately shows support at location 2 (in circle) between flew pipe and cat. The support he removed may be there in case #2 fails. In any event, the two beefy supporters at the exh manifold flanges effectively keep forces off the exh manifolds.
I got a quick look at the original flex pipe. Looked like a 3 layer design with a pipe in a pipe with braided liner. It was about 8" long. The AP part is also 8" long with nipples but the flex portion is only 4" long. I will call AP to see what they recommend.
Car runs fine. No noise and downstream O2 sensor behaving normally. I will get wife to operate engine and shift gears later today while I observe the flex pipe.
The Vibrant unit looks super deluxe but how do you weld to the one with inner braid? Does not look like there is anything there to weld to.
Update: observed movement when shifting from neutral to reverse. Was surprised to such little movement at the flex joint compared to engine rotation. Guess it must be an optical illusion. Maybe a 4" flex is enough?
Its probably fine, if the mount are okay there isn't that much movement.
Originally Posted By: artbuc
I got a quick look at the original flex pipe. Looked like a 3 layer design with a pipe in a pipe with braided liner. It was about 8" long. The AP part is also 8" long with nipples but the flex portion is only 4" long. I will call AP to see what they recommend.
Car runs fine. No noise and downstream O2 sensor behaving normally. I will get wife to operate engine and shift gears later today while I observe the flex pipe.
The Vibrant unit looks super deluxe but how do you weld to the one with inner braid? Does not look like there is anything there to weld to.
Yes its hard to tell by the diagram there is a weld collar on the Vibrant pieces
I got a quick look at the original flex pipe. Looked like a 3 layer design with a pipe in a pipe with braided liner. It was about 8" long. The AP part is also 8" long with nipples but the flex portion is only 4" long. I will call AP to see what they recommend.
Car runs fine. No noise and downstream O2 sensor behaving normally. I will get wife to operate engine and shift gears later today while I observe the flex pipe.
The Vibrant unit looks super deluxe but how do you weld to the one with inner braid? Does not look like there is anything there to weld to.
Yes its hard to tell by the diagram there is a weld collar on the Vibrant pieces
Found it! 8 and 9 on diagram. Called clamp, not support. Don't really understand function other than to brace flex pipe with pre-cat (converter). I suspect it transfers some dynamic force away from Y-connection. This is a diagram for 2000 models but it is used on my 99. That is why I did not see it before.
http://toyotaparts.lakelandtoyota.com/au...t-manifold-scat
http://toyotaparts.lakelandtoyota.com/au...t-manifold-scat
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I should add that the "clamp" is firmly bolted to the frame and body so it acted as a support and clamp.
IMO that's not just a cheap little holder its a necessary piece in the exhaust supporting mechanism, I could be wrong but it seems like a lot of hardware if its not really needed as the guys claims. .
Any chance you can put a new one one and weld it to the pipe if necessary?
Any chance you can put a new one one and weld it to the pipe if necessary?
Originally Posted By: Trav
IMO that's not just a cheap little holder its a necessary piece in the exhaust supporting mechanism, I could be wrong but it seems like a lot of hardware if its not really needed as the guys claims. .
Any chance you can put a new one one and weld it to the pipe if necessary?
Trav, not 100% sure but I think the reason it looks so complicated is because the side and top brackets are required to create anchor points for the lower strap bolts. Just looked at my wife's 2010 MDX which has the exact same pipe geometry and support points at the exh manifold mating flanges and just downstream of the flex pipe. It does not have the extra clamp that my Avalon has (I mean had). Going to shop today to see if I can recover the parts. He used a torch to burn off the bolts so even if parts are still in his trash can they may be usable. A new support, if I can still get it, will be close to $100. Not sure if it is worth it.
IMO that's not just a cheap little holder its a necessary piece in the exhaust supporting mechanism, I could be wrong but it seems like a lot of hardware if its not really needed as the guys claims. .
Any chance you can put a new one one and weld it to the pipe if necessary?
Trav, not 100% sure but I think the reason it looks so complicated is because the side and top brackets are required to create anchor points for the lower strap bolts. Just looked at my wife's 2010 MDX which has the exact same pipe geometry and support points at the exh manifold mating flanges and just downstream of the flex pipe. It does not have the extra clamp that my Avalon has (I mean had). Going to shop today to see if I can recover the parts. He used a torch to burn off the bolts so even if parts are still in his trash can they may be usable. A new support, if I can still get it, will be close to $100. Not sure if it is worth it.
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Art, I have no idea why manufacturers do things sometimes but unless I modify something to work or fit another way I always try to at least duplicate OE.
If the hanger takes stress of that flex joint then it is worth replacing. Online dealers are probably a lot cheaper.
If the hanger takes stress of that flex joint then it is worth replacing. Online dealers are probably a lot cheaper.
Originally Posted By: Trav
Art, I have no idea why manufacturers do things sometimes but unless I modify something to work or fit another way I always try to at least duplicate OE.
If the hanger takes stress of that flex joint then it is worth replacing. Online dealers are probably a lot cheaper.
I agree. Could not recover parts from the muffler shop. Have been researching to determine correct pn's as there are many variations. Think I now have the right ones identified and will buy. To his credit, muffler shop offered to give me a full refund but I declined just not feeling right doing that. Main challenge will be removing what is left of the studs which hold the top bracket.
Art, I have no idea why manufacturers do things sometimes but unless I modify something to work or fit another way I always try to at least duplicate OE.
If the hanger takes stress of that flex joint then it is worth replacing. Online dealers are probably a lot cheaper.
I agree. Could not recover parts from the muffler shop. Have been researching to determine correct pn's as there are many variations. Think I now have the right ones identified and will buy. To his credit, muffler shop offered to give me a full refund but I declined just not feeling right doing that. Main challenge will be removing what is left of the studs which hold the top bracket.
Trav, I was able to easily remove upper clamp studs. One was long enough for vice grips. Was able to slot the other with a Dremel (using extension cable because not enough clearance for Dremel) and remove with screwdriver. Here is the joke. Studs were not tight or rusted. The tech could have easily unbolted the clamp much faster than burning bolt heads with a torch. I watched him working with a torch for a long time but I did not know what he was doing until after the fact.
Hope to order new clamp today but it does not appear I can install the upper without lowering the entire exhaust. Still trying to understand why this clamp is there. Appears to me its main function is to prevent lateral movement/vibration as opposed to supporting weight. Will still have to modify because the larger OD jacketed pipe downstream of the flex pipe is now the smaller OD flex pipe extension nipple.
Hope to order new clamp today but it does not appear I can install the upper without lowering the entire exhaust. Still trying to understand why this clamp is there. Appears to me its main function is to prevent lateral movement/vibration as opposed to supporting weight. Will still have to modify because the larger OD jacketed pipe downstream of the flex pipe is now the smaller OD flex pipe extension nipple.
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