Does conventional oil protect better?

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Originally Posted By: sprite1741
Synthetic oil just empty's your wallet quicker. The power marketers have over some peoples mind is scary. Sell them something they don't need and make them believe a lot of hype and they will buy it. Snake oil pushed by Amsoil, and Mobil. It's all about making money. Always offer a more expensive product and convince the customer it has benefits. It's called up selling. Most people that use synthetic get rid of their engines before any magical mythical benefits would ever show up.
Not really, if they are used in the correct way, but they rarely are. Most people buy a synthetic for peace of mind and dump it at 5-7K instead of 15-20K. Besides with the specials and rebates that frequently happen, if you shop smart, you can obtain synthetics at far less than a conventional or in many cases for zero cost.
 
What I noticed is that my kawasaki ninja shift gear better with conventional, than with synthetics, for a while. Looks like that the Dog drum work smoother in those irregular dino sized molecules
 
i guess I'm just not convinced that synthetic oils are any better for the average car than a conventional changed at the correct interval. I.e...if you run oil 5k...synthetic offers no advantage assuming your not running an exotic grade like 0w40.

That being said...I'm a long time synthetic user...but I ran 10k ocis and in some cases 15k. A recent warranty scare has me changing oil at 5k intervals so im back to plain old 5w30 Quaker state. I've actually considered registering for the 300k warranty as my current truck will likely remain in service that long
 
Originally Posted By: Doublehaul
i guess I'm just not convinced that synthetic oils are any better for the average car than a conventional changed at the correct interval. I.e...if you run oil 5k...synthetic offers no advantage assuming your not running an exotic grade like 0w40.

But that's a different statement from the one you posed originally:

Quote:
Does conventional oil protect better?
 
My original post wasn't intended to be a statement of any kind really...more a question.

Long story short I took my truck into the dealership for a noise coming from the rear end. I had recently changed the axel dope as the differential had been submerged in water. Prior to authorizing the warranty repair, the dealership (perhaps fomoco) had my fluid analyzed to verify I had in fact used the specified grade. I had, and they replaced the e locker and components under warranty. While this was going on the truck had a sump full of 0w40...a non specified grade. Also, because of the climate I live in and the fact that I plow with this vehicle, I fall into the severe service category as per the service mgr. So I changed to a spec meeting 5w30 and a severe service oci. The question arose as I was looking back through UOAs of conventional oil trying to choose a brand to go with. No hidden agenda

I would also note that this was not my regular dealer I was dealing with. I was/am out of town for an extended period of time and this was simply the closest dealer. The service mgr was a complete d bag. My regular dealer would have taken care of the truck no questions asked.
 
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Originally Posted By: Doublehaul
Also, because of the climate I live in and the fact that I plow with this vehicle, I fall into the severe service category as per the service mgr. So I changed to a spec meeting 5w30 and a severe service oci. The question arose as I was looking back through UOAs of conventional oil trying to choose a brand to go with.
I am not sure where the "Ice Box of the Nation" is located, but if it is a very cold climate a conventional oil is likely not going to work for you. With that said, there are plenty of synthetics in the xW-30 range that can be used in the winter--an xW-40 is not needed unless it is an oil that is specified for the vehicle in question in the severe service category (assuming that xW-30 is the oil that is specified).

As for them checking your rear axle to see if the correct oil was used, what would they have said if the viscosity had not matched? Depending on the vehicle, oil can shear completely out of grade and this is not fault of the axle or the owner. I am going to **assume** they were checking to see if a lighter viscosity oil was used as opposed to a heavier one so they could say it was the oil that caused the problem.
 
We see temps in -30 range without wind chill every year. 5w30 conventional works fine for thousands of folks...myself included...ran vwb 5w30 last winter with no ill effects I could see or hear.

As for what fomoco would have said or what they were looking for...no idea. All I can say is that they covered it...for all I know it was a scare tactic. I can tell you I was not happy to have such a major repair this early but by all accounts it was a fluke...pretty good units in these trucks.
 
Originally Posted By: Doublehaul
We see temps in -30 range without wind chill every year. 5w30 conventional works fine for thousands of folks...myself included...ran vwb 5w30 last winter with no ill effects I could see or hear.

As for what fomoco would have said or what they were looking for...no idea. All I can say is that they covered it...for all I know it was a scare tactic. I can tell you I was not happy to have such a major repair this early but by all accounts it was a fluke...pretty good units in these trucks.


Just so you are aware, -30F is on the cusp of the pumpability limit for the 5W-xx designation. MRV is measured at -35C (you are at -34.5C at -30F) and you are a solid 5C below the CCS (Cold Cranking) limit for the designation.

While it might "work", assuming you aren't using a block heater, you are using the oil in conditions it is not approved to operate.
 
One of the reasons I had switched to 0w40 honestly. No availability of m1 afe 0w30 locally either...and the local ford dealers all recommend 5w30 for all climates
 
Can't you order a 0w-30 from Amazon? That's how I got my Motul stash
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Actually...not really. I live on a seasonal road which means it's not plowed by the county. I myself plow from the main road to my house...a couple of miles. Regardless ups, fed ex etc will not deliver to my door...as per their policy regarding seasonal roads. I don't like to order only to have my order sit in the side of the road 2 miles from my house...thus I buy locally
 
Originally Posted By: Doublehaul
Actually...not really. I live on a seasonal road which means it's not plowed by the county. I myself plow from the main road to my house...a couple of miles. Regardless ups, fed ex etc will not deliver to my door...as per their policy regarding seasonal roads. I don't like to order only to have my order sit in the side of the road 2 miles from my house...thus I buy locally


But could you not stockpile in the warmer months so that you have sufficient quantity on hand of a grade that makes more sense in your application? I mean, that seems only logical, no?
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And if shipping was an issue, do you not have a friend or associate who lives in town (not on a seasonal road) to whom the order could be delivered? You can get a great deal on oil by the case sometimes on Amazon.
 
Originally Posted By: Doublehaul
Had to laugh...looking at the mrv of m1 0w40 and qsgb 5w30...I probably wasn't really seeing any benefit form using the 0w40😜


You can't compare them, they are measured at different temperatures
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If the 5w-30 could have passed the 0w-xx requirements, it would be labelled as such
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You can get a ROUGH idea however by doubling the higher grade's figures. So if the MRV was 25,000cP at -35C, assuming it doesn't gel, it would be 50,000cP @ -40C. I would posit that CCS is the one that fails first however. The limits on CCS are much tighter.
 
OP, Blackstoe compiled a good bit of data a couple years back that revealed that conventional 5w30 did, in fact, provide lower wear metal numbers over the sampling of their database than all synthetics except Amsoil. However, that oil was barely in front of good ol GTX so for the $ it was quite profound that conventional was far and away the better choice for most drivers.
 
Originally Posted By: Nederlander75
OP, Blackstoe compiled a good bit of data a couple years back that revealed that conventional 5w30 did, in fact, provide lower wear metal numbers over the sampling of their database than all synthetics except Amsoil. However, that oil was barely in front of good ol GTX so for the $ it was quite profound that conventional was far and away the better choice for most drivers.


Those numbers don't correlate directly to actual wear though, to be pedantic. An oil that kept particulate in suspension better than another is, by definition, going to show higher levels of that particulate when sampled. Just as an example as to how that can go wrong. Used oil analysis is not a tool designed to measure wear, simply one to measure the life and condition of the lubricant and check for contamination. Controlled tear-down testing is the proper tool for measuring wear.
 
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
Over in technical papers forum there is an ongoing discussion about wear metals, especially upper cylinder wear on straight SAE 30 HD vs multi-viscosity oils on cold start.


Link? Had a look and didn't see it.
 
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
On air cooled engines, synthetic oils will tend to run 5-10 degrees cooler.

A cooler engine is a sign of less friction. Less friction means less wear.



Less friction doesn't necessarily mean less wear. Assuming the temperature difference is correct, the heating could be due to internal friction in the oil as it shears. This won't result in wear of neighbouring surfaces such as bearings.
 
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