Trying to teach someone to drive stick...

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Just to start off, I am 31 years old. My first vehicle was a 1986 Corolla with a manual transmission. So for the past 15-16 years I have been driving stick. I remember my dad trying to teach me and it was frustrating and nerve racking for both of us. Everyone learns differently over the years, so I never found someone telling you exactly what to do to be very productive.

I basically remember learning by figuring stuff out myself when I got out of school. Both parents were still at work and I would mess with learning the clutch. I would back out of the drive ways and pull back in. After that I would be a careless 15 year old that would putz around my neighborhood. Parents had no idea, but hey, that's how I learned. I am definitely not the best, it still takes me a bit to adjust to certain vehicles, and my wife is a better driver than I am (no problem confessing this lol), but I am fine. I drive like someone who's primary vehicle has always been with a manual transmission.

Fast forward to today, my best childhood friend is looking for a new car and wants something practical but also enjoyable to drive daily. He's cross shopping Fiesta/Focus ST's, GTI's, WRX, etc. He never drove or attempted to drive a stick shift ever. But now he wants to learn.

We tried two different vehicles, the ST and his brother-in-law's Camaro SS. Both attempts were not very good. Dozens of stalls, not grasping the third pedal concept, thinking of every motion too independently if that makes sense. It is definitely frustrating. I tried my best to not be like how my father was. Gave some run downs of this and that, even let him go ahead alone to not feel pressured or anxious. Still no better. I thought the SS would have been the easiest. Lots of torque and a more forgivable clutch... Ive always found vehicles like this to actually be some of the easiest to learn on.

I've taught a handful of friends to drive stick growing up and it was always pretty simple. They grasped the concepts, and a good 30 minutes in an empty parking lot got them in enough time that they could actually take the car out on the road. I didn't sense this here.

Do you feel age has something to do with this? 15+ years of driving an auto might make you less inclined to pick up a new driving concept when you're so set in your ways. I know he really wants to drive a manual but I am starting to have doubts as to whether or not it will just 'click' for him.
 
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Age... maybe.

Most cars have pretty good idle speed controls. I'd force him to make a ton of starts without touching the gas. Just feather the clutch up until it bogs (and moves) then reflexively back down, so the car is then slowly rolling. The computer will notice the dip and compensate the idle.

Repeat, but with more "meat" each time, until you get the thing idling along with the clutch up.

He's been driving for 15 years using only one pedal at any given moment, and the right foot. Just has to train his left foot.

For chapter 2, combine feet.
 
I've taught both my daughters how to drive a manual, and I found it helped if they had a basic understanding of what the transmission was and where it was located in the drivetrain. It eventually devolves into a discussion about energy management and the need to think ahead (you can't come up to a hill and just leave it in a high gear), these seemed like things no one bothers to consider with an automatic.

It was easier using a friend's BMW with a manual than for my ECHO. The BMW had a much wider power band and was far more forgiving about being in the "wrong" gear. The ECHO requires much more management of the driving conditions at the moment.
 
Originally Posted By: jigen
Do you feel age has something to do with this? 15+ years of driving an auto might make you less inclined to pick up a new driving concept when you're so set in your ways.

Sounds like that's the case. Plus, some people just don't seem to grasp the whole clutch/accelerator relationship, regardless of age. Nothing wrong with that. Most of us are not great at everything we touch.

Are there any professional driving schools around that can teach stick? Maybe somebody else will be able to teach your friend using other methods that you have not tried? If that still fails, then I'd say stick is just not for them.
 
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Age... maybe.

Most cars have pretty good idle speed controls. I'd force him to make a ton of starts without touching the gas. Just feather the clutch up until it bogs (and moves) then reflexively back down, so the car is then slowly rolling. The computer will notice the dip and compensate the idle.

Repeat, but with more "meat" each time, until you get the thing idling along with the clutch up.

He's been driving for 15 years using only one pedal at any given moment, and the right foot. Just has to train his left foot.

For chapter 2, combine feet.


Bingo!

This is how I taught my 15 year old daughter how to drive.

We started in my Mazda with a 5 speed before she was allowed to drive a car with an automatic.

Sunday morning at the empty parking lot of the shopping mall. I started with the car on a slight down slope to provide the maximum chance for success. Then we moved to a level section. Doing just as was described, finding the friction point where the clutch begins to grab without touching the accelerator.

Finally, we got to where she could shift into 2nd or 3rd and drive around, stop, etc.

Then, take her on the road....
 
I feel some have a knack for it, some not so much. Some vehicles are easier to learn from. I learned decades ago on a farm, started learning at the age of 8. I think a nice gravel road helps in learning to engage a clutch and later learning to start going up a hill. It is certainly a learning process.
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
I've taught both my daughters how to drive a manual, and I found it helped if they had a basic understanding of what the transmission was and where it was located in the drivetrain. It eventually devolves into a discussion about energy management and the need to think ahead (you can't come up to a hill and just leave it in a high gear), these seemed like things no one bothers to consider with an automatic.


That's what I did with my wife (then girlfriend). She said it helped a lot. Turned her into a manual convert.

Quote:
It was easier using a friend's BMW with a manual than for my ECHO. The BMW had a much wider power band and was far more forgiving about being in the "wrong" gear. The ECHO requires much more management of the driving conditions at the moment.


Ironically, after teach her, my wife went out and bought a Civic. About cried on the way home, as she kept stalling. I got a chance to drive it after a few days, as she said it was harder than she thought (yes, she did test drive it, but it just wasn't getting better, even with practice). I drove it, and quickly learned it was absolutely gutless. Off idle that is. I "gave her permission" to use a bit of gas, and then she was very happy with that car--I had done the bit with "only use the clutch to get going" in my Saturn, and that Civic simply could not do that.
 
Have you watched him drive an automatic? For a while in "drivers ed" people were taught to drive an automatic with two feet...

IMO driving a manual is all about friction zone... I would find a big empty flat parking lot and just make him get the feel of the friction zone. once he grasp that ...

I'd do it in the brother in laws SS, partially because it should be easier and mostly because it wasn't mine...
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It helps if the car is fully warmed up.

Both my sons learned within an hour to drive a manual transmission. Learning friction point is most important.
 
On the flip side, I let my brother drive my S10 once. That thing didn't have a working choke, so it was easy to stall when cold. What it wouldn't do was stall when warm. About got whiplash on that one drive; I took back over real quick...

I look forward to teaching my kids some day.
 
I find it helps new clutch drivers to think of the clutch and gas as if they were light dimmer switches, not an on/off light switch.
Each pedal works in opposite - with thought process similar to a light dimmer switch at 3 - 4 second swing.
 
My parents always drive stick, but it just so happened that the two vehicles they had at the time I got my license were autos.

I tried to learn on a friend's integra. Horrible clutch point and action; my wife's was the same (her father made her get an mt car on a very hilly island to master driving; he's not an "enthusiast" or a "purist", it was just a good skill).

I ended up buying my 91 BMW 318i, flood title, specifically to learn to drive stick. I did. Easily. My brother borrowed the car and learned to drive and to drive stick on it. Easily.

I drove the car around 100k miles more on the same clutch before rust made me condemn the car. I miss it.

There's not a huge challenge to driving manual, but it does make you appreciate physics and the basis of how a vehicle operates. I find auto only people to be much more brain dead in their driving and appreciation of physics. IMO everyone should have to learn on and master an MT to get a license.
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
I've taught both my daughters how to drive a manual, and I found it helped if they had a basic understanding of what the transmission was and where it was located in the drivetrain. It eventually devolves into a discussion about energy management and the need to think ahead (you can't come up to a hill and just leave it in a high gear), these seemed like things no one bothers to consider with an automatic.

It was easier using a friend's BMW with a manual than for my ECHO. The BMW had a much wider power band and was far more forgiving about being in the "wrong" gear. The ECHO requires much more management of the driving conditions at the moment.


I taught my son basically the same way. I showed him a clutch, [pictures] and explained how it worked, and when and why to shift. Once he understood that we moved onto the feel of it engaging and disengaging. I had him working on getting the van to move w/o gas, once he had that down we did some take offs and shifting. The next lesson was the hill, and taking off with the use of the emergency brake, then without it. He drives a stick nicely. When he served over in Afghanistan they had some kind of truck with a stick they'd do mail runs at Bagram Airbase with. He was one of a few guys that really knew how to drive it. Till this day it amazes me how many grown men that don't know how to drive a stick.
 
The first stick I ever drove was my neighbors (my "grandpa's") S10 with a Datsun diesel engine. Very very difficult for a first timer even though I grew up driving stick tractors.

No experience, but I'm sure the newer stuff with the anti rollback brake tech is much easier.
 
I like the advice about finding a big empty parking lot. Get him comfortable and able to start out without stalling, and stopping without stalling. Do it many times to get the feel. Then transition into shifting. Do everything SLOWLY so they learn the feel of the clutch.
 
Great advice. The dimmable light switch is a really good concept! Definitely something I was trying to explain to him, I feel this idea works well.

And +1 to the BMW over the Echo. That's why I thought the Camaro would be a nice learning vehicle. Lots of torque which really gets your head around the concept of a clutch grabbing the gear. You could get into first gear with this thing with no gas on a flat surface, probably even second.

Toyotas have always been the hardest clutches to get going if you've never driven them before. Very touchy, with little play where the clutch grabs. It's hard to feel the connection in some of these vehicles.

Lol, my mom had a 2003 Corolla with a manual and any time I would be over there and needed to use her car for a while I'd pull out of their driveway like a first time driver haha.
 
A generation ago, kids couldn't wait to turn 16 so that they could drive and any vehicle with 2 doors had the option of a stick. Today kids live socially on the internet and driving a car isn't as important, plus only 3.5% of vehicles sold have the stick option.

Even 18 wheelers have the option of an automatic. I had to give up the stick shift after 22 years because my wife wasn't going to drive one or learn how. Me mentioning how many girls that I thought how to drive a stick in my youth didn't help the issue!
 
Originally Posted By: jigen
And +1 to the BMW over the Echo.

Just keep in mind, most manual BMWs made after the late 90s have this evil contraption called CDV (clutch delay valve). The good thing about it is that it'll help minimize the chances of stalling the engine if you don't know what you're doing and let up the clutch too quickly. The bad thing about it is that it's nearly impossible to make a smooth shift, no matter how hard you try. It makes you look like you don't know how to drive stick, even when you do. I had it removed from my car.
 
Some people just can't get it and probably never will. My sister for example, she cannot grasp the whole concept. She can get going ok, but shifting is a whole different story. My dad taught me in an older Nissan in a parking lot that also had a hill on it. Fast forward a couple years I needed a truck and the only affordable thing on the lot was a gutless 5 speed Nissan. Now 2 outta the 4 vehicles in the fleet are stick. The truck takes some skill since the syncros are worn slap out, so double-clutch downshifting is required.
 
I started driving stick at the age of 12 or 13 on my grandparents' farm in northern Arkansas. They had a 1983 Mazda GLC Deluxe with a 4-speed and a 1979 Ford Courier pickup with either a 4-speed or a 3-speed. I've since taught my brother how to drive stick when he was in his 20s.

The best method, in my opinion, is forcing them to get the car rolling (on a flat surface, like a parking lot) using the clutch only (no gas pedal). Instead of stabbing the gas and popping the clutch, which usually gets them going but has little educational value, starting off by slipping the clutch only (at low speed, so there's generally little wear) forces them to feel that relationship between the engine and the transmission. I've found that once they master that, the rest is cake.
 
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