Help with viscosity

[Vals]

First of all : sorry for my bad English.
Hi everyone, I am new here, I am Valerio, from Rome (Italy), I am 25 years old and I have a Yamaha fz8 2012 competition white.
I like to learn new things about the world of motorcycle, and motor oil is part of it, so I started to read about it. I have met this precious forum, I have learned some "basics", like groups of oils, VI and viscosity, etc. My motorcycle has a really bad clutch and gearbox, so the choose of the oil is really important. I noticed that in America is really used track oils, like shell rotella t6 (that we don't have here), at the end I have seen that a good oil that I could use (easy to find and not too much expensive), is Mobil 1 racing 4t 15w50. But on my owner manual there's no this viscosity, there is : 10w30/40/50/60,15w40,20w60, and I don't really understand why. I have tried to find a 15w40 oil but it's not used from lots of companies. There's any risk using a 15w50 viscosity? (just for info : I don't use anymore yamalube oil, I use bardahl but after few km the gears return hard and noisy).
Thank you for the attention, and let me know if I was wrong with section or title.
Vals

 

[Oldmoparguy1]

shell rotella t6 is a 5W-40 synthetic diesel truck oil. shell rotella T-III 15W-40 is a standard diesel motor oil and used every where in the U.S. What types or brands of oil are in common use in Italy? You could check with local truck, (lorry) operators. They should be able to help you. Good luck..

 

[BrocLuno]

Welcome aboard. We like folks from Italy

I think your Yamaha has a shared oil supply - both the engine, and the transmission/clutch. If that is the case, you will need an oil rated for both engine use and transmission use. There are dedicated motorcycle oils that are rated fore this kind of service, but they are often somewhat more expensive.

So in big equipment - tractors and heavy equipment that moves things, the motor oil is shared with the transmission. One of the company's that supplies these transmissions is Allison. They have a list of approved oils and their testing is very thorough and demanding. If an oil makes it onto the Allison list, it is always very good

Here is the list: http://www.allisontransmission.com/parts-service/approved-fluids/off-highway-fluids Are there any oils that you can get easily that are on the list? Maybe Rimula R4-L ...

Ravenol and Motul make excellent 4T and heavy equipment oils. I would also look there

Your manual allows oils from 10W (cold) to 60 (hot). 20W-50 semi-synthetic or even Castrol RS 10W-60 would prolly work very well.

Here is Motul's discussion of motorcycle oils: https://www.motul.com/za/en/community/100

So your owners manual will say that you need a JASO M (what ?) Either and A (or A1 or A2) or a B. Please tell us what your book says in this regard ...

 

[Kamele0N]

Shell rotella is shell rimula here...

But I am not fan of using HDEOs in shared sumps...

Try on agip or omv petrol station... They offer motocycle oils too

 

[BrocLuno]

If they pass the Allison series of tests, they are good tranny oils - tested and proven.

I often think that the motorcycle oils are just Allison or ZF approved oils (tested for clutch & shear), sent to a different bottling line to get a fancy 4T bottle and a higher price ...

 

[SuperSalad]

Originally Posted By: Vals
First of all : sorry for my bad English.
at the end I have seen that a good oil that I could use (easy to find and not too much expensive), is Mobil 1 racing 4t 15w50. But on my owner manual there's no this viscosity, there is : 10w30/40/50/60,15w40,20w60,

The 15W-50 you found is perfectly fine for your bike. The most important n umber to match when choosing is the second number (in this case the 50) and your owner's manual says an SAE 50 oil is good for your FZ8. The fact that it is a 15W instead of a 10W is not a big concern in most situations. If you are riding constantly during the winter and ride in temperatures below freezing, then you may want to try to find a 10W-50 or use a 10W-40 instead. But for mild weather and normal riding, the 15W-50 will be no problem at all.

 

[Kamele0N]

Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
If they pass the Allison series of tests, they are good tranny oils - tested and proven.

I often think that the motorcycle oils are just Allison or ZF approved oils (tested for clutch & shear), sent to a different bottling line to get a fancy 4T bottle and a higher price ...

We dont have/know "Allison" test here....

Only ww2 entusiasts will know what Allison was...but even they will say...forget Allison...RR Merlin was a real deal

It simply made A36 into P51D...

 

[Vals]

Hi guys, thank you for your replies. The most famous here are bardahl and motul I think, but I am not really satisfied...
For BrocLuno : from that list maybe I could find Mobil delvac mx 15/40 but I am not sure. And on my manual there are those viscosity and : api sg (or above) / jaso MA.
Thank you Motor Tribologist, so it's not a problem to use that viscosity, this is good so that I can use shell advanced too

 

[donnyj08]

Originally Posted By: Vals
Hi guys, thank you for your replies. The most famous here are bardahl and motul I think, but I am not really satisfied...
For BrocLuno : from that list maybe I could find Mobil delvac mx 15/40 but I am not sure. And on my manual there are those viscosity and : api sg (or above) / jaso MA.
Thank you Motor Tribologist, so it's not a problem to use that viscosity, this is good so that I can use shell advanced too


You can use either 10w40 or 15w50 in that bike. You should have easy access to shell advanced, as well as agip ENI-I ride oils. Both of those would work well for you. Good luck!

 

[Ducman]

Originally Posted By: donnyj08
Originally Posted By: Vals
Hi guys, thank you for your replies. The most famous here are bardahl and motul I think, but I am not really satisfied...
For BrocLuno : from that list maybe I could find Mobil delvac mx 15/40 but I am not sure. And on my manual there are those viscosity and : api sg (or above) / jaso MA.
Thank you Motor Tribologist, so it's not a problem to use that viscosity, this is good so that I can use shell advanced too


You can use either 10w40 or 15w50 in that bike. You should have easy access to shell advanced, as well as agip ENI-I ride oils. Both of those would work well for you. Good luck!



I was thinking along the same lines.
One problem though, Vals is looking for a cost effective oil.
Not sure about the Agip oil, but the Shell typically sells at a premium price point.
It will most likely be more expensive than he is willing to pay.
The Shell is currently recommended by Ducati in 15w-50 grade so he will most likely be able to get it easily in Italy.

 

[Vals]

Yes, here it's used by Ducati and BMW too, in their boxer. I can find both shell and Mobil 1 in 15w50 viscosity.
My only "problem" was : can I use a viscosity not present on the manual? Maybe there is a reason if Yamaha doesn't mention 15w50 viscosity. But at the same time I think that it was really strange, why mention all those viscosity range, and not one in the middle like 15w50? Neither a 5w viscosity... if some day I would like to go to Elefantentreffen in Germany with my bike, I have to use a 5w viscosity, even if not mentioned in the manual.
I will go for shell then, the cost is in line with others oils more or less. Thank you again guys

 

[donnyj08]

Originally Posted By: Vals
Yes, here it's used by Ducati and BMW too, in their boxer. I can find both shell and Mobil 1 in 15w50 viscosity.
My only "problem" was : can I use a viscosity not present on the manual? Maybe there is a reason if Yamaha doesn't mention 15w50 viscosity. But at the same time I think that it was really strange, why mention all those viscosity range, and not one in the middle like 15w50? Neither a 5w viscosity... if some day I would like to go to Elefantentreffen in Germany with my bike, I have to use a 5w viscosity, even if not mentioned in the manual.
I will go for shell then, the cost is in line with others oils more or less. Thank you again guys



The 15w50 although not stated in the manual is perfectly acceptable. My previous bike was a Yamaha FZ6R which was a 600cc 4cyl that is similar to your 800cc version and it was perfectly fine with 15w50. Also my current Yamaha XSR900 which is based off of the MT09 allows for the use of 15w50 oil as well.

Here in the U.S Yamaha sells Yamalube oils for the bikes and their flagship oil is an ester fortified 15w50 oil. Use a 15w50 with confidence sir!

I'll be visiting Italy in January 2017! I'm looking forward to it!

 

[Vals]

Thank you for the info donny! I will put that in then. Ps: have fun in Italy, my country it's really beautiful, pay attention only in which places you go to eat, lots of tourists places are really expensive and not so good to eat, especially in Rome, try to eat in "less common tourists places".

 

[donnyj08]

Originally Posted By: Vals
Thank you for the info donny! I will put that in then. Ps: have fun in Italy, my country it's really beautiful, pay attention only in which places you go to eat, lots of tourists places are really expensive and not so good to eat, especially in Rome, try to eat in "less common tourists places".



Great! Thank you for the tip! I will be in Milan and Florence as well as some towns I can't pronounce. Mostly in Northern Italy!

 

[BrocLuno]

Originally Posted By: Kamele0N
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
If they pass the Allison series of tests, they are good tranny oils - tested and proven.

I often think that the motorcycle oils are just Allison or ZF approved oils (tested for clutch & shear), sent to a different bottling line to get a fancy 4T bottle and a higher price ...

We don't have/know "Allison" test here....

Only ww2 enthusiasts will know what Allison was...but even they will say...forget Allison...RR Merlin was a real deal

It simply made A36 into P51D...



Good try, but wrong Allison in the modern sense...

After the War (WW-II) Allison Division of GM became their automatic transmission group for heavy duty power transmission. Some time ago, they became independent or were bought by another group.

They are one of the worlds premier transmission companies for heavy trucking, tractors, yard equipment, etc. That is why the list. Allison are the engineers and testers for many things transmission related.

Of course ZF in Europe is also into HD transmissions. But I don't know if they publish a list of lubricants that are approved for use in both engines and transmissions under high stress loads ...

In any case, to Vals point - you can read the list of viscosities as a range. The ones listed are typical viscosity pairs found in the market. But as long as what you are buying (both numbers) is in the owners manual, you are prolly fine.

My point is that although you can find many oils with viscosities that will be in the owners manual, they prolly have not been tested for use in shared sump duty with transmission requirements. The Allison list has been tested and you know they will work.

Mobil1 and the like will prolly be fine. But since your manual states JASO MA, I'd definitely be looking for that rating on the oil I bought. It means that it is OK for use with your clutch. Other oils may not be happy with the clutch, even it they are OK with the gears (where most of the shearing takes place) ...

So, to me, it's either JASO MA or the Allison list (or both) to get an oil that will work for the motor, the clutch, and the gears

 

[alarmguy]

Originally Posted By: Vals
First of all : sorry for my bad English.
Hi everyone, I am new here, I am Valerio, from Rome (Italy), I am 25 years old and I have a Yamaha fz8 2012 competition white.
I like to learn new things about the world of motorcycle, and motor oil is part of it, so I started to read about it. I have met this precious forum, I have learned some "basics", like groups of oils, VI and viscosity, etc. My motorcycle has a really bad clutch and gearbox, so the choose of the oil is really important. I noticed that in America is really used track oils, like shell rotella t6 (that we don't have here), at the end I have seen that a good oil that I could use (easy to find and not too much expensive), is Mobil 1 racing 4t 15w50. But on my owner manual there's no this viscosity, there is : 10w30/40/50/60,15w40,20w60, and I don't really understand why. I have tried to find a 15w40 oil but it's not used from lots of companies. There's any risk using a 15w50 viscosity? (just for info : I don't use anymore yamalube oil, I use bardahl but after few km the gears return hard and noisy).
Thank you for the attention, and let me know if I was wrong with section or title.
Vals


This post has got to be a scam or robot, well at least I feel like it is based on the question.
Its easy as [censored] to find 15/40 oil in Italy. Unlike here everything overseas runs on diesel fuel.
Diesel rated HEDO oils are much more common then even here, any 15/40 Diesel rated oil will work for the OP and would rather use that then Mobile 1 15/50 if he has clutch issues.

 

[Vals]

Thank you BrocLuno I will look for those stats. Thank you guys you have been precious

 

[FZ1]

50W is good. My FZ1 likes 20w-50 here in Texas. Shifts better with Amsoil than with Mobil. .02.