Your thoughts on Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5w-40
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Originally Posted By: Artemous
Originally Posted By: pscholte
Originally Posted By: pscholte
edyvw said:
Not to hijack the thread but I had one of the very early S4's (1994) with the 2.2 liter 5 cylinder turbo. I never had an issue with it in over 80K miles even though it was modified to increase hp substantially. I used Red Line oil back then although I doubt that had anything to do with it.
Not a real fan of Audi engines as most of them are just VW blocks and they have a reputation for oil leaks that seem to start just after the warranty expires. If you are given one, don't use thin oil, any of the major brand 0 or 5w40 full synthetics that have the engine listed in the oil companies oil finder or guide page will do a good job. If you want to spend money try using the same oil as the Germans do, which will be one of the Liqui Moly Synthoil range, just check their web site.
Originally Posted By: dah90
To edyvw
I can't say it's better than Castrol 0w40 or Mobil one 0w-40, but one reason I chose to use it is because my owners manual specifically stated to use a 5w-30 or 5w-40 that meets VW 502. Also if I am not mistaken it also said 5w-40 was preferred. Therefore I have never even looked at a 0w-40 with intent to use it in my car.
5w40 oils last slightly longer than 0w40 oils due to the fact they need slightly less in the way of viscosity improvers in their add pack, so are less effected by high temp shearing with the long OCI that the EU dealers are keen on. If you are doing the typical 5000 mile OCI popular in the USA, I doubt if there will be any difference between the final viscosity of the 2 different SAE ranges.
To edyvw
I can't say it's better than Castrol 0w40 or Mobil one 0w-40, but one reason I chose to use it is because my owners manual specifically stated to use a 5w-30 or 5w-40 that meets VW 502. Also if I am not mistaken it also said 5w-40 was preferred. Therefore I have never even looked at a 0w-40 with intent to use it in my car.
5w40 oils last slightly longer than 0w40 oils due to the fact they need slightly less in the way of viscosity improvers in their add pack, so are less effected by high temp shearing with the long OCI that the EU dealers are keen on. If you are doing the typical 5000 mile OCI popular in the USA, I doubt if there will be any difference between the final viscosity of the 2 different SAE ranges.
Originally Posted By: UltrafanUK
Originally Posted By: dah90
To edyvw
I can't say it's better than Castrol 0w40 or Mobil one 0w-40, but one reason I chose to use it is because my owners manual specifically stated to use a 5w-30 or 5w-40 that meets VW 502. Also if I am not mistaken it also said 5w-40 was preferred. Therefore I have never even looked at a 0w-40 with intent to use it in my car.
5w40 oils last slightly longer than 0w40 oils due to the fact they need slightly less in the way of viscosity improvers in their add pack, so are less effected by high temp shearing with the long OCI that the EU dealers are keen on. If you are doing the typical 5000 mile OCI popular in the USA, I doubt if there will be any difference between the final viscosity of the 2 different SAE ranges.
It is valid point, but everything depends on chemical composition of oil. VISOM version of M1 0W40 that is still available in Europe was one of the most shear stable oils I have every seen (though TBN retention is not that good). Castrol 0W40 also styes in grade, while for example Motul 5W40 always shears down to W30 weight.
Originally Posted By: dah90
To edyvw
I can't say it's better than Castrol 0w40 or Mobil one 0w-40, but one reason I chose to use it is because my owners manual specifically stated to use a 5w-30 or 5w-40 that meets VW 502. Also if I am not mistaken it also said 5w-40 was preferred. Therefore I have never even looked at a 0w-40 with intent to use it in my car.
5w40 oils last slightly longer than 0w40 oils due to the fact they need slightly less in the way of viscosity improvers in their add pack, so are less effected by high temp shearing with the long OCI that the EU dealers are keen on. If you are doing the typical 5000 mile OCI popular in the USA, I doubt if there will be any difference between the final viscosity of the 2 different SAE ranges.
It is valid point, but everything depends on chemical composition of oil. VISOM version of M1 0W40 that is still available in Europe was one of the most shear stable oils I have every seen (though TBN retention is not that good). Castrol 0W40 also styes in grade, while for example Motul 5W40 always shears down to W30 weight.
Which Motul 5W40? X-cess 8100?
Originally Posted By: Popsy
Which Motul 5W40? X-cess 8100?
X-Cess and X-Clean, never saw on any DI engine to stay in grade. They settle down in high 11, low 12's.
Which Motul 5W40? X-cess 8100?
X-Cess and X-Clean, never saw on any DI engine to stay in grade. They settle down in high 11, low 12's.
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It appears I chose the wrong oil within my stash then
I'll see, since it isn't a DI engine, but doesn't like thin oil much.
I'll see, since it isn't a DI engine, but doesn't like thin oil much.
Originally Posted By: Popsy
It appears I chose the wrong oil within my stash then
I'll see, since it isn't a DI engine, but doesn't like thin oil much.
I think Motul is great oil, but just giving example that just because there are more viscosity modifiers in oil does not mean it will shear down faster.
Shear stability in non-DI engine is important, but not as in DI engine.
I ran UOA of VISOM based M1 0W40 after 8,000km and it sheared from 13.5cst to 13.3cst. That is great result. TBN retention on other hand was abysmal, but that is compliment of the high sulfur in the U.S. gas.
It appears I chose the wrong oil within my stash then
I'll see, since it isn't a DI engine, but doesn't like thin oil much.
I think Motul is great oil, but just giving example that just because there are more viscosity modifiers in oil does not mean it will shear down faster.
Shear stability in non-DI engine is important, but not as in DI engine.
I ran UOA of VISOM based M1 0W40 after 8,000km and it sheared from 13.5cst to 13.3cst. That is great result. TBN retention on other hand was abysmal, but that is compliment of the high sulfur in the U.S. gas.
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Popsy
It appears I chose the wrong oil within my stash then
I'll see, since it isn't a DI engine, but doesn't like thin oil much.
I think Motul is great oil, but just giving example that just because there are more viscosity modifiers in oil does not mean it will shear down faster.
Shear stability in non-DI engine is important, but not as in DI engine.
I ran UOA of VISOM based M1 0W40 after 8,000km and it sheared from 13.5cst to 13.3cst. That is great result. TBN retention on other hand was abysmal, but that is compliment of the high sulfur in the U.S. gas.
Commenting on Motul is a bit off topic, although just for the record it is a good oil, although not as good as a Shell Ultra or Liqui Moly Synthoil with the same Acea specs.
Oddly enough LM Synthoil HT does not contain Moly when Ultra does, although it does have more Zinc.
Oddly enough my own engine can use Xw30 or 40 grade oils (There is a temp limit of 30c for the 30 grades), BUT in the maintenance notes it says use a 15w40 full synthetic for hot desert operations. Amsoil are the only company making a 15w40 FS oil as far as I'm aware. One of the reasons they list a 15w40 is that those oils use less VI's, so are more shear resistant. A 15w40 is often slightly thicker at high temps and the FS base stock is also more shear resistant than a dinosaur one.
Viscosity Improvers weaken the molecular structure of any oil in terms of its resistance to high temp shearing, BUT the only engines that tend to shear oil down are ones with hot turbo's or high max RPM limits.
My own TDI did shear a mid 40 grade into a top 30 grade in a 10K km OCI once, but the normal reason for a low final viscosity is fuel contamination.
PS: Penn Ulta (Shell Ultra in the UK & EU) is one great oil, it's the only oil I tested that produced results as good as Liqui Moly Synthoil High Tech 5w40. It appears the reason is the GTL base stock is as good as a group (German standard) full synthetic base stock.
Originally Posted By: Popsy
It appears I chose the wrong oil within my stash then
I'll see, since it isn't a DI engine, but doesn't like thin oil much.
I think Motul is great oil, but just giving example that just because there are more viscosity modifiers in oil does not mean it will shear down faster.
Shear stability in non-DI engine is important, but not as in DI engine.
I ran UOA of VISOM based M1 0W40 after 8,000km and it sheared from 13.5cst to 13.3cst. That is great result. TBN retention on other hand was abysmal, but that is compliment of the high sulfur in the U.S. gas.
Commenting on Motul is a bit off topic, although just for the record it is a good oil, although not as good as a Shell Ultra or Liqui Moly Synthoil with the same Acea specs.
Oddly enough LM Synthoil HT does not contain Moly when Ultra does, although it does have more Zinc.
Oddly enough my own engine can use Xw30 or 40 grade oils (There is a temp limit of 30c for the 30 grades), BUT in the maintenance notes it says use a 15w40 full synthetic for hot desert operations. Amsoil are the only company making a 15w40 FS oil as far as I'm aware. One of the reasons they list a 15w40 is that those oils use less VI's, so are more shear resistant. A 15w40 is often slightly thicker at high temps and the FS base stock is also more shear resistant than a dinosaur one.
Viscosity Improvers weaken the molecular structure of any oil in terms of its resistance to high temp shearing, BUT the only engines that tend to shear oil down are ones with hot turbo's or high max RPM limits.
My own TDI did shear a mid 40 grade into a top 30 grade in a 10K km OCI once, but the normal reason for a low final viscosity is fuel contamination.
PS: Penn Ulta (Shell Ultra in the UK & EU) is one great oil, it's the only oil I tested that produced results as good as Liqui Moly Synthoil High Tech 5w40. It appears the reason is the GTL base stock is as good as a group (German standard) full synthetic base stock.
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Originally Posted By: UltrafanUK
Viscosity Improvers weaken the molecular structure of any oil in terms of its resistance to high temp shearing, BUT the only engines that tend to shear oil down are ones with hot turbo's or high max RPM limits.
The whole purpose of VII is to increase HTHS.
There is of course a lot more to it to than 'more VII is bad' there are many different types which respond differently.
As you say, fuel dilution is often a bigger effect than VII shear. Base oils dont really shear, there is a myth than mineral base oils are more prone to shear than synthetic
Viscosity Improvers weaken the molecular structure of any oil in terms of its resistance to high temp shearing, BUT the only engines that tend to shear oil down are ones with hot turbo's or high max RPM limits.
The whole purpose of VII is to increase HTHS.
There is of course a lot more to it to than 'more VII is bad' there are many different types which respond differently.
As you say, fuel dilution is often a bigger effect than VII shear. Base oils dont really shear, there is a myth than mineral base oils are more prone to shear than synthetic
This is what I'd like to be using in my Focus ST, but I never see it stocked anywhere around my area.
Originally Posted By: WylieCoyote
This is what I'd like to be using in my Focus ST, but I never see it stocked anywhere around my area.
NAPA has it on sale this month. If they do not have it in stock, they will order it for you. $5.99 per quart.
This is what I'd like to be using in my Focus ST, but I never see it stocked anywhere around my area.
NAPA has it on sale this month. If they do not have it in stock, they will order it for you. $5.99 per quart.
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