Corvette UA0 with Redline 5w30: High Lead
- Thread starter Dirty_Howie
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Waiting for latest UAO from Blackstone. Should be here in a couple of days. Stay tuned ......
DH
DH
Originally Posted By: DeepFriar
I am troubled by this new (to me) pressure viscosity coefficient metric. If indeed it shows a weakness in ester based oils it does not square with over 20 years of continuous hard use of Redline oils in the SE-R in the signature below. As some of you know I have described its use in various competitions and hard use up to this day. 225K of 242K miles has been "ester based oil" without so much as a spun bearing or any other need to have it apart. Hard use is putting it mildly with innumerable long stints into and out of the 6-8000rpm range and it is still repeatedly redlined in the local mountains at least once per week. I would find it unlikely anybody would say it's not seen extremely hard use.
Until I see some real world example that PVC has something other than theoretical merit with esters I will remain unconvinced. It may be that PVC is a distinction without a difference. I just don't know but if it's held everything together for a couple of hundred thousand miles then something about the PVC metric regarding esters is in doubt. I do wish the OP well with this change to a known exceptional oil. I expect good results although I too worry it may be a bit thin.
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/586/viscosity-coefficient-bearing
Practical Guidance for Selecting Lubricant
(as demonstrated by Figure 3):
- PAG oils have significantly thicker films than PAO and mineral oils over the entire range of practical temperature.
- There is little difference between PAO and mineral oils for the temperature range of 70°C to 90°C. In this same temperature range, PAG lubricant gives 16 percent to 37 percent thicker films than mineral oil.
- For temperatures less than 70°C, mineral and PAG oils have significantly greater film thickness than PAO oils.
- For temperatures greater than 90°C, PAO and PAG oils have significantly greater film thickness than mineral oils.
It would only be an issue under 70°C. and at those temperatures, the oil is thicker than it needs to be anyway. Remember that the bearings are running hotter than the bulk oil temperature, so if the bilk oil reaches 50°C, the oil in the bearings will easily go over 70°C already.
I'm not so sure about a very high pressure/viscosity constant in slide bearings. I'd be concerned about bearing fatigue if you run in the EHL regime a lot. for roller cams and rocker bearings it's a good thing.
I am troubled by this new (to me) pressure viscosity coefficient metric. If indeed it shows a weakness in ester based oils it does not square with over 20 years of continuous hard use of Redline oils in the SE-R in the signature below. As some of you know I have described its use in various competitions and hard use up to this day. 225K of 242K miles has been "ester based oil" without so much as a spun bearing or any other need to have it apart. Hard use is putting it mildly with innumerable long stints into and out of the 6-8000rpm range and it is still repeatedly redlined in the local mountains at least once per week. I would find it unlikely anybody would say it's not seen extremely hard use.
Until I see some real world example that PVC has something other than theoretical merit with esters I will remain unconvinced. It may be that PVC is a distinction without a difference. I just don't know but if it's held everything together for a couple of hundred thousand miles then something about the PVC metric regarding esters is in doubt. I do wish the OP well with this change to a known exceptional oil. I expect good results although I too worry it may be a bit thin.
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/586/viscosity-coefficient-bearing
Practical Guidance for Selecting Lubricant
(as demonstrated by Figure 3):
- PAG oils have significantly thicker films than PAO and mineral oils over the entire range of practical temperature.
- There is little difference between PAO and mineral oils for the temperature range of 70°C to 90°C. In this same temperature range, PAG lubricant gives 16 percent to 37 percent thicker films than mineral oil.
- For temperatures less than 70°C, mineral and PAG oils have significantly greater film thickness than PAO oils.
- For temperatures greater than 90°C, PAO and PAG oils have significantly greater film thickness than mineral oils.
It would only be an issue under 70°C. and at those temperatures, the oil is thicker than it needs to be anyway. Remember that the bearings are running hotter than the bulk oil temperature, so if the bilk oil reaches 50°C, the oil in the bearings will easily go over 70°C already.
I'm not so sure about a very high pressure/viscosity constant in slide bearings. I'd be concerned about bearing fatigue if you run in the EHL regime a lot. for roller cams and rocker bearings it's a good thing.
Well here is my latest Blackstone report. Obviously I am very happy with it. My lead levels are now completely normal.
Again, many thanks to those who helped convince me to use Mobil1 0w40. I think its pretty clear that at least for my car it is the better oil.
A few points and questions:
1. The car spent more time on the freeway during its daily driver duty than last time.
2. I ran a few more AutoX events than last time.
3. I did add 1/4 qt of oil for the first time. Does Blackstone compensate for this in the listed metal ppm?
4. Why is Phosphorus and Zink lower. Could it be that its coating bearing and other surface?
DH
Again, many thanks to those who helped convince me to use Mobil1 0w40. I think its pretty clear that at least for my car it is the better oil.
A few points and questions:
1. The car spent more time on the freeway during its daily driver duty than last time.
2. I ran a few more AutoX events than last time.
3. I did add 1/4 qt of oil for the first time. Does Blackstone compensate for this in the listed metal ppm?
4. Why is Phosphorus and Zink lower. Could it be that its coating bearing and other surface?
DH
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/586/viscosity-coefficient-bearing
Practical Guidance for Selecting Lubricant
(as demonstrated by Figure 3):
- PAG oils have significantly thicker films than PAO and mineral oils over the entire range of practical temperature.
- There is little difference between PAO and mineral oils for the temperature range of 70°C to 90°C. In this same temperature range, PAG lubricant gives 16 percent to 37 percent thicker films than mineral oil.
- For temperatures less than 70°C, mineral and PAG oils have significantly greater film thickness than PAO oils.
- For temperatures greater than 90°C, PAO and PAG oils have significantly greater film thickness than mineral oils.
It would only be an issue under 70°C. and at those temperatures, the oil is thicker than it needs to be anyway. Remember that the bearings are running hotter than the bulk oil temperature, so if the bilk oil reaches 50°C, the oil in the bearings will easily go over 70°C already.
I'm not so sure about a very high pressure/viscosity constant in slide bearings. I'd be concerned about bearing fatigue if you run in the EHL regime a lot. for roller cams and rocker bearings it's a good thing.
Pressure Viscosity Coefficients of Minerals is much higher than PAO and PAG (by 2 times) through out the whole temperature range, though ester's not indicated here.
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/586/viscosity-coefficient-bearing
Practical Guidance for Selecting Lubricant
(as demonstrated by Figure 3):
- PAG oils have significantly thicker films than PAO and mineral oils over the entire range of practical temperature.
- There is little difference between PAO and mineral oils for the temperature range of 70°C to 90°C. In this same temperature range, PAG lubricant gives 16 percent to 37 percent thicker films than mineral oil.
- For temperatures less than 70°C, mineral and PAG oils have significantly greater film thickness than PAO oils.
- For temperatures greater than 90°C, PAO and PAG oils have significantly greater film thickness than mineral oils.
It would only be an issue under 70°C. and at those temperatures, the oil is thicker than it needs to be anyway. Remember that the bearings are running hotter than the bulk oil temperature, so if the bilk oil reaches 50°C, the oil in the bearings will easily go over 70°C already.
I'm not so sure about a very high pressure/viscosity constant in slide bearings. I'd be concerned about bearing fatigue if you run in the EHL regime a lot. for roller cams and rocker bearings it's a good thing.
Pressure Viscosity Coefficients of Minerals is much higher than PAO and PAG (by 2 times) through out the whole temperature range, though ester's not indicated here.
That's not what I've found. I've found about 30% more for mineral oils compared to PAO. but presuure viscosity coefficient is pointless if you don't know the viscosity of the oil going into that bearing
if the oil viscosity is double, then it doesn't matterthe pressure viscosity coefficient is only half. That's what machinery lubrication is getting at with those temperature ranges.
if the oil viscosity is double, then it doesn't matterthe pressure viscosity coefficient is only half. That's what machinery lubrication is getting at with those temperature ranges.
Congrats on the great report! Glad to hear things have settled down and are trending in the right direction
Originally Posted By: Doublehaul
Congrats on the great report! Glad to hear things have settled down and are trending in the right direction
Thanks. I have 3K miles already since last fill. My next OCI will be Sept 16 so will likely have 4K miles then. Obviously, I will update this thread with that Blackstone report.
DH
Congrats on the great report! Glad to hear things have settled down and are trending in the right direction
Thanks. I have 3K miles already since last fill. My next OCI will be Sept 16 so will likely have 4K miles then. Obviously, I will update this thread with that Blackstone report.
DH
Oil changed today at 4247 miles. Will send to Blackstone tomorrow and upload report soon as I receive it.
DH
DH
Looking forward to it
Okay, here is my Blackstone report I received today.
I'm happy. It seems to get better every report.
Anyone see any issues?
DH
I'm happy. It seems to get better every report.
Anyone see any issues?
DH
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Here is my latest report.
Very happy!
DH
Very happy!
DH
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OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Looks great!!
There's something about Redline and bringing out the lead. I'd be more apt to suspect some type of chelation rather than accelerated wear, in line with CT8s suggestion. No matter, seems a switch of chemistry has eliminated it.
Originally Posted By: PeterPolyol
There's something about Redline and bringing out the lead. I'd be more apt to suspect some type of chelation rather than accelerated wear, in line with CT8s suggestion. No matter, seems a switch of chemistry has eliminated it.
Ya, I have no idea what the underlying reason (chemistry/physics) might be but I'm sure of the results and will just keep using the Mobil1 0w40 now.
There's something about Redline and bringing out the lead. I'd be more apt to suspect some type of chelation rather than accelerated wear, in line with CT8s suggestion. No matter, seems a switch of chemistry has eliminated it.
Ya, I have no idea what the underlying reason (chemistry/physics) might be but I'm sure of the results and will just keep using the Mobil1 0w40 now.
Is the latest report the older Mobil 1 0w-40 or the newest Mobil 1 0w-40 FS?
Originally Posted By: jdavis
Is the latest report the older Mobil 1 0w-40 or the newest Mobil 1 0w-40 FS?
Sorry I should have updated this and made it clear. The first 3 reports with the high Lead levels are with the RedLine 5w30. The last 3 reports with the improved Lead levels are with the Mobil1 0w40.
Does that answer your question?
DH
Is the latest report the older Mobil 1 0w-40 or the newest Mobil 1 0w-40 FS?
Sorry I should have updated this and made it clear. The first 3 reports with the high Lead levels are with the RedLine 5w30. The last 3 reports with the improved Lead levels are with the Mobil1 0w40.
Does that answer your question?
DH
Originally Posted By: Gasbuggy
Howie, Mobil changed their 0w40 to a new formula. He was asking if you know which version you had. You would need to have the jug to know.
Okay. Sorry I misinterpreted the question.
I actually do have the jug which I recently bought a couple of months ago at AutoZone.
So how do I tell ?
DH
Howie, Mobil changed their 0w40 to a new formula. He was asking if you know which version you had. You would need to have the jug to know.
Okay. Sorry I misinterpreted the question.
I actually do have the jug which I recently bought a couple of months ago at AutoZone.
So how do I tell ?
DH
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