Dimming LEDs

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Jun 28, 2003
Messages
8,428
Location
Illinois
I use small 5mm LEDs of various colors in the car. They come pre wired for 12v. But some colors are too bright. Is all I need a small resistor to dim them a bit? And what value of ohms? The current draw is minuscule.

Here's the specs on the LEDs. The blue is particularly irritating at night.

Prewired LEDs Technical Info
Voltage: 12v

Current (mA) Luminous Flux (lumens) Wavelength (nm) Color Temperature (deg. K)
Warm White 20 2.30 3,000
Neutral White 20 2.30 6,000
Cool White 20 3.15 9,000 - 10,000
Blue 20 1.25 465 - 470
Red 20 0.48 620 - 625
Green 20 3.05 520 - 525
Amber 20 0.5 605 - 610
Pink 20 0.96 695 - 700 1,200 - 1,400
UV 20 0.05 405 - 410


https://www.oznium.com/prewired-leds#tech
 
get a linear potentiometer and wire it, iirc, inline, so when you get to the desired brightness, you can measure the resistance of the potentiometer and find the corresponding resister to purchase.
 
LEDs are powered by current, not voltage. Most dimmers use Pulse-Width Modulation to lower the light output. Just dropping the voltage will usually just show you at what voltage they turn fully on and fully off. A PWM supply will turn the LED off and on at some fixed frequency rapidly at the required current, and alter the length of time it is on during the brief periods it is powered by the supply, so that it effectively becomes less apparently bright.

If it were me, I'd search eBay for a cheap Chinese-made and sourced PWM dimmer, and hook that up between your 12V power source and the LEDs you want to dim. You should be able to pull it off for less than $5, might take 4 weeks to deliver from Hong Kong (preferred) or People's Republic of China (PRC). Search with criteria "Lowest Cost plus Shipping" and buy the one that has the vendor with over 99% positive feedback offering the lowest price.

You can buy a similar PWM device from other sources, but it will be Chinese made anyway, at a higher price. Why fight the system?

Although a PWM dimmer circuit is the recommended solution, take care that you do not place the PWM module close to some noise sensitive circuit, as the switching frequency supply can generate radiated Electro-Magnetic Interference (EMI). So, not near the car's computers, not near the radio or sound system components, etc. Close to the fuse box where you are getting your LED power is probably the best area. 12 inches is probably a safe bet for distance.
 
If they're drawing 20 mA at 12v then they have a resistance of about 80 ohms. That's assuming their resistance stays constant. Start with a 0-100 ohm potentiometer then do what UG_Passat said.
 
+1 what Johnny said. LED's are Diodes so they start to conduct ~1.5 volts. the resistor drops the remaining voltage and limits the Current so they don't burn up. Diodes do NOT have a linear response. They resist flow only until the SEMICONDUCTOR material it is made of breaks over and then it no longer resists. A Diode will only ever drop the voltage it breaks over at which is around 1.5 volts.

Dropping the current below spec ~10ma will dim the bulbs a bit but the light output then becomes less stable to things like temperature changes and the resistor value may need to be be different between different LED's.

There are colored LED's you can get in bulk that have closer visible output values so no need for PWM to make them look the same brightness. You just have to look for them

Blue is annoying cause its frequency does not focus in the eye as well as other colors and just adds distortion to your vision. Hence the famous blue blocker HD sunglasses.
 
Last edited:
I was using colored nail polish on the ones I've used in the past. I kind of wondered about the resistor as there was no real info for that found. Just PWM circuits.
 
I deal with white (~3V) and red (~2V) LEDs...I poked around online and it looks like blues are also about 3V for their Vf.
If the manufacturer added a resistor to give 20mA at 12V with a blue LED, its value would be about 450 Ohms ([12V-3V]/20mA). Power dissipation in this resistor is 180mW, which is small but not negligible.
A really simple way to dim the blues would be to hook them up in series pairs, which would cut their current to maybe 7mA at 12V ([12V-3V-3V]/2*450 Ohms). This may not be feasible with your configuration and may also dim them too much for your tastes.
Another quick and dirty way would be to wire a discrete Zener diode in series with the blues...if you picked a standard 3.3V Zener, it would cut the current in your blues to about 12.5mA with 12Vin. One nice thing is that there are a lot of Zener voltages to pick from and these are simple 2-terminal components. A series string of basic PN diodes (about 0.7V Vf each at room temp) is a cruder way to approach dropping some voltage with 2 terminal components.

PWM dimming is a great approach that I deal with constantly, just trying to present some alternatives that might be simpler to implement.
 
LEDs are current controlled devices. You need a fixed/variable current power regulator or PWM control. Resistors are for light bulbs.
 
Originally Posted By: KingCake
LEDs are current controlled devices. You need a fixed/variable current power regulator or PWM control. Resistors are for light bulbs.


Old school light bulbs ARE resistors!
;^)

If the current regulation needed is not tight and the supply voltage is quite a bit larger than the forward voltages of your diodes, setting your current inexactly through a series resistor can be good enough. If you need accuracy and particularly if you want to change dimming levels on the fly while not wasting lots of power, yeah, you PWM. Often one will use a PWM regulator running at a high frequency to set your base current level and then PWM that controller at a much lower frequency to dim off that level, so you get some 200kHz-2MHz switching that may have a little FM component being AMed hard at 200Hz-2kHz...

Back to the OP, also perfectly OK to dim with an additional series resistor based upon the knowledge that your assembly already had something like 400-500 Ohms in it. You're going to be way under the 1/4 W limit of your everyday axial lead resistor. Your LED forward voltage will change a little bit with current level, but not an awful lot for the change you are probably looking for.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
I was using colored nail polish on the ones I've used in the past. I kind of wondered about the resistor as there was no real info for that found. Just PWM circuits.
Physically blocking with the paint would be easiest solution. I have done that with a sharpie on some of the annoying blue led on devices.
 
You can dim LEDs by adding resistance, but how much depends on a number of variables. I did several LED light designs for aircraft lighting over the last 10 years.

As stated, single LED die have a voltage drop of about 2 (red and amber) to 3+ (white, blue, and green) volts. If the "LED" you wish to dim has a single die (many do), you can add resistance in series with the LED and dim it a little. If it draws roughly 20 mA (as many do), you will probably need at least 1000 ohms of additional resistance to reduce the brightness to the level you are looking for. It may even take several thousand ohms.

You can usually dim an LED linearly (by using a dropping resistor) to about 5 to 10% of it's rated brightness. If you try to use a resistor to dim more than that, brightness starts to become inconsistent. A dim level of 5 to 10% sounds like a lot, but the eye's response is non-linear so that level of dimming doesn't appear to be 1/10 to 1/20 of the rated brightness to the human eye. In fact a 50% reduction in LED brightness is only slightly perceptible to the eye.

One of the lights I designed needed the ability to dim to 1% of full brightness, and another required the ability to dim to .1% of full brightness. Achieving those levels required PWM dimming. And the customer for the .1% dimming light (1000:1) was left wanting an even greater range of dimming.

Oh, and one more thing. Most white LEDs are actually blue LEDs with a phosphorous coating over the die (that looks yellow), and emit very little light in the red/amber spectrum. So the use of colored filters with a white LED to achieve the color/brightness you wish may not work very well.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Brian Barnhart
You can dim LEDs by adding resistance, but how much depends on a number of variables. I did several LED light designs for aircraft lighting over the last 10 years.

As stated, single LED die have a voltage drop of about 2 (red and amber) to 3+ (white, blue, and green) volts. If the "LED" you wish to dim has a single die (many do), you can add resistance in series with the LED and dim it a little. If it draws roughly 20 mA (as many do), you will probably need at least 1000 ohms of additional resistance to reduce the brightness to the level you are looking for. It may even take several thousand ohms.

You can usually dim an LED linearly (by using a dropping resistor) to about 5 to 10% of it's rated brightness. If you try to use a resistor to dim more than that, brightness starts to become inconsistent. A dim level of 5 to 10% sounds like a lot, but the eye's response is non-linear so that level of dimming doesn't appear to be 1/10 to 1/20 of the rated brightness to the human eye. In fact a 50% reduction in LED brightness is only slightly perceptible to the eye.

One of the lights I designed needed the ability to dim to 1% of full brightness, and another required the ability to dim to .1% of full brightness. Achieving those levels required PWM dimming. And the customer for the .1% dimming light (1000:1) was left wanting an even greater range of dimming.

Oh, and one more thing. Most white LEDs are actually blue LEDs with a phosphorous coating over the die (that looks yellow), and emit very little light in the red/amber spectrum. So the use of colored filters with a white LED to achieve the color/brightness you wish may not work very well.


Good post...yeah, lots of companies want 10,000:1 PWM dimming these days. That's a big PITA when they also want to run the PWM dimming at a relatively high frequency, there is so little on time that it is nearly impossible to control the base current level accurately.
One of the big problems with analog dimming is that the perceived color of the LED changes if you go much below 10%...the color doesn't appear to change if you PWM dim at a fixed base current level. So, some level of analog dimming is sometimes used to tweak in the base current during a calibration cycle and then PWM dimming off that level is used in the application. The PWMing is usually at 200Hz or above to be well past the frequency at which the human eye will perceive flickering.
 
Last edited:
Actually with the blue and the nail polish it worked pretty good but took maybe 15 coats?

I use blue to show when the AC compressor is on, amber to show when the fog light are on and red to show when the radiator fan is on.

The blue one is really the obnoxious one.
 
Originally Posted By: Kawiguy454
+1 what Johnny said. LED's are Diodes so they start to conduct ~1.5 volts. the resistor drops the remaining voltage and limits the Current so they don't burn up. Diodes do NOT have a linear response. They resist flow only until the SEMICONDUCTOR material it is made of breaks over and then it no longer resists. A Diode will only ever drop the voltage it breaks over at which is around 1.5 volts.

Dropping the current below spec ~10ma will dim the bulbs a bit but the light output then becomes less stable to things like temperature changes and the resistor value may need to be be different between different LED's.

There are colored LED's you can get in bulk that have closer visible output values so no need for PWM to make them look the same brightness. You just have to look for them

Blue is annoying cause its frequency does not focus in the eye as well as other colors and just adds distortion to your vision. Hence the famous blue blocker HD sunglasses.
The common voltage drop across an Si junction is .7 volts.
 
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
The common voltage drop across an Si junction is .7 volts.


Yes, the forward drop for a silicon PN junction (which is often called Vbe even when an NPN or PNP transistor is not being referenced) is generally about 0.7V at room temp with a TC of about -2mV/degree C.
But, LEDs are not made from silicon...forward biasing a silicon PN junction produces very little light due to it being an indirect bandgap material. Other semiconductor materials (III-V generally) are used to make LEDs, which is a bummer because they are much pricier than silicon.
 
Ha you're right .7 volts on a junction thanks for the correction ...It's been so long since I even discussed discrete semiconductors with anyone a battery or zener voltage got in there.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top