Is there an oil that is best for Honda direct injection? Or any gdi engine. Our Honda Accord has the 2.4l and is a highway queen at the moment but will soon start to see short drive intervals of maybe 8 miles round trip. I'm guessing fuelmdilution might become an issue. I saw that Castrol edge has been good for eco boost engines so now I wonder what about the hondas even though they don't have turbos on the 2.4l
2017 accord direct injection
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My Mazda CX5 with DI has shown goo UOA on PP oil
A rule of thumb for DI engines is the lowest volatility oil possible, and *do not* change it more often than recommended by the manual. Very important that oil not be changed more often than recommended. Most DI intake contamination issues had a root cause in overly frequent oil changes (ie: people thinking they were doing 'good' for their car by changing more often), and/or improper oils (often by shady dealers!).
Ideally DIY so you see exactly what goes into the engine. As opposed to the significant probability that the dealer is using low-bidder bulk oil (even if the invoice says otherwise!).
Ideally DIY so you see exactly what goes into the engine. As opposed to the significant probability that the dealer is using low-bidder bulk oil (even if the invoice says otherwise!).
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Originally Posted By: pitzel
A rule of thumb for DI engines is the lowest volatility oil possible, and *do not* change it more often than recommended by the manual. Very important that oil not be changed more often than recommended. Most DI intake contamination issues had a root cause in overly frequent oil changes (ie: people thinking they were doing 'good' for their car by changing more often), and/or improper oils (often by shady dealers!).
Ideally DIY so you see exactly what goes into the engine. As opposed to the significant probability that the dealer is using low-bidder bulk oil (even if the invoice says otherwise!).
And where does the "overly frequent oil change causes intake valve deposits" theory come from?
A rule of thumb for DI engines is the lowest volatility oil possible, and *do not* change it more often than recommended by the manual. Very important that oil not be changed more often than recommended. Most DI intake contamination issues had a root cause in overly frequent oil changes (ie: people thinking they were doing 'good' for their car by changing more often), and/or improper oils (often by shady dealers!).
Ideally DIY so you see exactly what goes into the engine. As opposed to the significant probability that the dealer is using low-bidder bulk oil (even if the invoice says otherwise!).
And where does the "overly frequent oil change causes intake valve deposits" theory come from?
Excess exposure to volatilized components through the PCV and crankcase recirculation systems, which lead to intake deposits. The first dozen or two hours on an oil is probably the worst. After that, rates slow down quite considerably.
A few years back I did a meta analysis of a model-specific enthusiast Internet forum where hundreds of people complained about problems with their specific new DI engine and the intake deposits. Everyone was changing oil far more frequently than the manufacturer's recommendation in a misguided belief that they were 'helping' their engine. And a high percentage were having said oil changes performed by dealers.
Strangely enough, the intake problems did not show up in Europe where there is not only a culture of longer drains, but maintenance providers who aren't looking to cut corners to meet a certain "low" price point (ie: a $30 oil change at a quickie lube or dealer, for example!).
A few years back I did a meta analysis of a model-specific enthusiast Internet forum where hundreds of people complained about problems with their specific new DI engine and the intake deposits. Everyone was changing oil far more frequently than the manufacturer's recommendation in a misguided belief that they were 'helping' their engine. And a high percentage were having said oil changes performed by dealers.
Strangely enough, the intake problems did not show up in Europe where there is not only a culture of longer drains, but maintenance providers who aren't looking to cut corners to meet a certain "low" price point (ie: a $30 oil change at a quickie lube or dealer, for example!).
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Originally Posted By: pitzel
Excess exposure to volatilized components through the PCV and crankcase recirculation systems, which lead to intake deposits. The first dozen or two hours on an oil is probably the worst. After that, rates slow down quite considerably.
A few years back I did a meta analysis of a model-specific enthusiast Internet forum where hundreds of people complained about problems with their specific new DI engine and the intake deposits. Everyone was changing oil far more frequently than the manufacturer's recommendation in a misguided belief that they were 'helping' their engine. And a high percentage were having said oil changes performed by dealers.
Strangely enough, the intake problems did not show up in Europe where there is not only a culture of longer drains, but maintenance providers who aren't looking to cut corners to meet a certain "low" price point (ie: a $30 oil change at a quickie lube or dealer, for example!).
Interesting theory. Now let's see a professional lab or oil maker or automaker that makes the same point. And real reports of intake valve deposits in the current generation of DI engines are rare to the point of being non-existent.
Excess exposure to volatilized components through the PCV and crankcase recirculation systems, which lead to intake deposits. The first dozen or two hours on an oil is probably the worst. After that, rates slow down quite considerably.
A few years back I did a meta analysis of a model-specific enthusiast Internet forum where hundreds of people complained about problems with their specific new DI engine and the intake deposits. Everyone was changing oil far more frequently than the manufacturer's recommendation in a misguided belief that they were 'helping' their engine. And a high percentage were having said oil changes performed by dealers.
Strangely enough, the intake problems did not show up in Europe where there is not only a culture of longer drains, but maintenance providers who aren't looking to cut corners to meet a certain "low" price point (ie: a $30 oil change at a quickie lube or dealer, for example!).
Interesting theory. Now let's see a professional lab or oil maker or automaker that makes the same point. And real reports of intake valve deposits in the current generation of DI engines are rare to the point of being non-existent.
Just buy a synthetic oil in your weight and change every 7500 miles. Use Gumout with Regane or Redline SI 1 to keep DI deposits in check.
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Most popular synthetic oils should do fine.
Another school of thought is to get out there - and create some "intake velocity" from time to time - like on a freeway ramp. Nothing wrong with that on the weekends once the short trips start ...
Another school of thought is to get out there - and create some "intake velocity" from time to time - like on a freeway ramp. Nothing wrong with that on the weekends once the short trips start ...
Originally Posted By: pitzel
Excess exposure to volatilized components through the PCV and crankcase recirculation systems, which lead to intake deposits. The first dozen or two hours on an oil is probably the worst. After that, rates slow down quite considerably.
A few years back I did a meta analysis of a model-specific enthusiast Internet forum where hundreds of people complained about problems with their specific new DI engine and the intake deposits. Everyone was changing oil far more frequently than the manufacturer's recommendation in a misguided belief that they were 'helping' their engine. And a high percentage were having said oil changes performed by dealers.
Strangely enough, the intake problems did not show up in Europe where there is not only a culture of longer drains, but maintenance providers who aren't looking to cut corners to meet a certain "low" price point (ie: a $30 oil change at a quickie lube or dealer, for example!).
Interesting theory, especially knowing that VW's that were having issues with CBU were maintained at VW on 10K schedule. Granted using Castrol 5W40 POS.
Excess exposure to volatilized components through the PCV and crankcase recirculation systems, which lead to intake deposits. The first dozen or two hours on an oil is probably the worst. After that, rates slow down quite considerably.
A few years back I did a meta analysis of a model-specific enthusiast Internet forum where hundreds of people complained about problems with their specific new DI engine and the intake deposits. Everyone was changing oil far more frequently than the manufacturer's recommendation in a misguided belief that they were 'helping' their engine. And a high percentage were having said oil changes performed by dealers.
Strangely enough, the intake problems did not show up in Europe where there is not only a culture of longer drains, but maintenance providers who aren't looking to cut corners to meet a certain "low" price point (ie: a $30 oil change at a quickie lube or dealer, for example!).
Interesting theory, especially knowing that VW's that were having issues with CBU were maintained at VW on 10K schedule. Granted using Castrol 5W40 POS.
Originally Posted By: Danh
Interesting theory. Now let's see a professional lab or oil maker or automaker that makes the same point. And real reports of intake valve deposits in the current generation of DI engines are rare to the point of being non-existent.
A good chunk of the 'industry response' was to tighten further the volatility spec on the oils. And more random audits of their dealer networks to make sure they weren't cheating as many obviously were (ie: putting 5W-30 bulk dino in place of the expensive top-shelf spec'ed synthetics).
Obviously its a touchy subject. Just look on this forum where a large number of posters honestly believe that manufacturer spec'ed drain intervals are too low!
Interesting theory. Now let's see a professional lab or oil maker or automaker that makes the same point. And real reports of intake valve deposits in the current generation of DI engines are rare to the point of being non-existent.
A good chunk of the 'industry response' was to tighten further the volatility spec on the oils. And more random audits of their dealer networks to make sure they weren't cheating as many obviously were (ie: putting 5W-30 bulk dino in place of the expensive top-shelf spec'ed synthetics).
Obviously its a touchy subject. Just look on this forum where a large number of posters honestly believe that manufacturer spec'ed drain intervals are too low!
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Originally Posted By: pitzel
Excess exposure to volatilized components through the PCV and crankcase recirculation systems, which lead to intake deposits. The first dozen or two hours on an oil is probably the worst. After that, rates slow down quite considerably.
A few years back I did a meta analysis of a model-specific enthusiast Internet forum where hundreds of people complained about problems with their specific new DI engine and the intake deposits. Everyone was changing oil far more frequently than the manufacturer's recommendation in a misguided belief that they were 'helping' their engine. And a high percentage were having said oil changes performed by dealers.
Strangely enough, the intake problems did not show up in Europe where there is not only a culture of longer drains, but maintenance providers who aren't looking to cut corners to meet a certain "low" price point (ie: a $30 oil change at a quickie lube or dealer, for example!).
I had the same theory but don't think it holds much weight. Oil heats up to 80-100c during typical service which is nowhere near the NOACK test temperature of 250C. Yes, it's still hot enough to cause some oil evaporation but 2-3% of a typical 5L sump is not much at all over the course of an OCI.
EGR & blowby is the main culprit of DI carbon deposits. You can't avoid either and EGR is at its maximum during low load/RPM use which is where the most deposit can be seen. Fuel dilution from blowby will also evaporate much faster in the crankcase @ operating temps. Fuel dilution & evaporation inside the engine is also happening constantly whenever the engine is running as blowby keeps adding new fuel to the sump & heat causes that fuel to evaporate.
Why do European drivers experience less DI carbon issues?
1) Emission laws are stricter in the USA which forced manufacturers to use more EGR to keep NOX levels low.
2) Gas quality is much higher in Europe with 91 octane being the minimum whereas 87 is the standard in USA (this also forces more EGR use to prevent knock).
Newer DI engines with cooled EGR designs experience little to no carbon buildup in the intake. EGR passage clogging might be an issue later on though.
Excess exposure to volatilized components through the PCV and crankcase recirculation systems, which lead to intake deposits. The first dozen or two hours on an oil is probably the worst. After that, rates slow down quite considerably.
A few years back I did a meta analysis of a model-specific enthusiast Internet forum where hundreds of people complained about problems with their specific new DI engine and the intake deposits. Everyone was changing oil far more frequently than the manufacturer's recommendation in a misguided belief that they were 'helping' their engine. And a high percentage were having said oil changes performed by dealers.
Strangely enough, the intake problems did not show up in Europe where there is not only a culture of longer drains, but maintenance providers who aren't looking to cut corners to meet a certain "low" price point (ie: a $30 oil change at a quickie lube or dealer, for example!).
I had the same theory but don't think it holds much weight. Oil heats up to 80-100c during typical service which is nowhere near the NOACK test temperature of 250C. Yes, it's still hot enough to cause some oil evaporation but 2-3% of a typical 5L sump is not much at all over the course of an OCI.
EGR & blowby is the main culprit of DI carbon deposits. You can't avoid either and EGR is at its maximum during low load/RPM use which is where the most deposit can be seen. Fuel dilution from blowby will also evaporate much faster in the crankcase @ operating temps. Fuel dilution & evaporation inside the engine is also happening constantly whenever the engine is running as blowby keeps adding new fuel to the sump & heat causes that fuel to evaporate.
Why do European drivers experience less DI carbon issues?
1) Emission laws are stricter in the USA which forced manufacturers to use more EGR to keep NOX levels low.
2) Gas quality is much higher in Europe with 91 octane being the minimum whereas 87 is the standard in USA (this also forces more EGR use to prevent knock).
Newer DI engines with cooled EGR designs experience little to no carbon buildup in the intake. EGR passage clogging might be an issue later on though.
Originally Posted By: Marco620
Just buy a synthetic oil in your weight and change every 7500 miles. Use Gumout with Regane or Redline SI 1 to keep DI deposits in check.
How do fuel additives prevent intake valve fouling in DI engines?
Just buy a synthetic oil in your weight and change every 7500 miles. Use Gumout with Regane or Redline SI 1 to keep DI deposits in check.
How do fuel additives prevent intake valve fouling in DI engines?
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Originally Posted By: edyvw
Interesting theory, especially knowing that VW's that were having issues with CBU were maintained at VW on 10K schedule. Granted using Castrol 5W40 POS.
And since those VW guys were installing catch cans with near 0 reduction in deposits.
Interesting theory, especially knowing that VW's that were having issues with CBU were maintained at VW on 10K schedule. Granted using Castrol 5W40 POS.
And since those VW guys were installing catch cans with near 0 reduction in deposits.
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Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Interesting theory, especially knowing that VW's that were having issues with CBU were maintained at VW on 10K schedule. Granted using Castrol 5W40 POS.
And since those VW guys were installing catch cans with near 0 reduction in deposits.
Yep, saw many posts on how catch cans did nothing, which is why EGR & Fuel dilution are the main culprits. Catch cans aren't very effective at stopping fuel vapors from getting past.
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Interesting theory, especially knowing that VW's that were having issues with CBU were maintained at VW on 10K schedule. Granted using Castrol 5W40 POS.
And since those VW guys were installing catch cans with near 0 reduction in deposits.
Yep, saw many posts on how catch cans did nothing, which is why EGR & Fuel dilution are the main culprits. Catch cans aren't very effective at stopping fuel vapors from getting past.
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Interesting theory, especially knowing that VW's that were having issues with CBU were maintained at VW on 10K schedule. Granted using Castrol 5W40 POS.
And since those VW guys were installing catch cans with near 0 reduction in deposits.
I never wanted to use that. Used always low-NOACK oil (Castrol 0W30/40, M1 0W40), change it every 5K, drive it like I stole it, and never had issues. I had VW CC that I traded for BMW X5 and worked perfectly and under scope had very, very small amount of CBU.
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Interesting theory, especially knowing that VW's that were having issues with CBU were maintained at VW on 10K schedule. Granted using Castrol 5W40 POS.
And since those VW guys were installing catch cans with near 0 reduction in deposits.
I never wanted to use that. Used always low-NOACK oil (Castrol 0W30/40, M1 0W40), change it every 5K, drive it like I stole it, and never had issues. I had VW CC that I traded for BMW X5 and worked perfectly and under scope had very, very small amount of CBU.
I don't know about "best" but member oily boyd (linked) has some extensive miles/experience using M1 AFE 0w20 and posting UOA results that caught my eye. That or PP 0w20 would be my first choices. My .02
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4188039/1/2013_Accord_2.4L_6MT_-_11K_OCI
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4188039/1/2013_Accord_2.4L_6MT_-_11K_OCI
Originally Posted By: HKPolice
I had the same theory but don't think it holds much weight. Oil heats up to 80-100c during typical service which is nowhere near the NOACK test temperature of 250C. Yes, it's still hot enough to cause some oil evaporation but 2-3% of a typical 5L sump is not much at all over the course of an OCI.
Wouldn't the oil flash to a higher temp in the ring lands and on the cylinder walls and possibly bottom of the piston? Average temp may be low, but peak is something higher I'd think.
I had the same theory but don't think it holds much weight. Oil heats up to 80-100c during typical service which is nowhere near the NOACK test temperature of 250C. Yes, it's still hot enough to cause some oil evaporation but 2-3% of a typical 5L sump is not much at all over the course of an OCI.
Wouldn't the oil flash to a higher temp in the ring lands and on the cylinder walls and possibly bottom of the piston? Average temp may be low, but peak is something higher I'd think.
Originally Posted By: supton
Originally Posted By: HKPolice
I had the same theory but don't think it holds much weight. Oil heats up to 80-100c during typical service which is nowhere near the NOACK test temperature of 250C. Yes, it's still hot enough to cause some oil evaporation but 2-3% of a typical 5L sump is not much at all over the course of an OCI.
Wouldn't the oil flash to a higher temp in the ring lands and on the cylinder walls and possibly bottom of the piston? Average temp may be low, but peak is something higher I'd think.
Only the lighter volatile parts of the oil will vaporize on those hot spots during normal use which is why most mechanically sound engines have no measurable oil consumption.
Originally Posted By: HKPolice
I had the same theory but don't think it holds much weight. Oil heats up to 80-100c during typical service which is nowhere near the NOACK test temperature of 250C. Yes, it's still hot enough to cause some oil evaporation but 2-3% of a typical 5L sump is not much at all over the course of an OCI.
Wouldn't the oil flash to a higher temp in the ring lands and on the cylinder walls and possibly bottom of the piston? Average temp may be low, but peak is something higher I'd think.
Only the lighter volatile parts of the oil will vaporize on those hot spots during normal use which is why most mechanically sound engines have no measurable oil consumption.
It sounds like any quality oil will work in the earth dreams 2.4l what are some oils with low viscosity and NOAK numbers? Car uses 0w20
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